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  1. Maxwell Choi is offline
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    #1

    Chinese style Forehand topspin against backspin

    Hey guys. My Infinity VPS V with DHS NEO Provincial Hurricane 3 along with Andro Rasant is a bad looper on the forehand as I couldn't perform my lethal Chinese drive against topspin (similar to Ma Long). The ball always goes straight to the net. For players having a similar situation like me, please give me some advice.

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    #2
    try viscaria instead of infinity

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    #3
    hello, I had the same problem first of all you have to tune your h3 neo, if after you send the balls still on the network, you should improve the shot. Try to go with the arm forward and above the head.

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    #4
    I've tryed once DHS NEO (Provincial- not sure for Provincial) Hurricane 3 and I have to say I got same issues!
    dynamics is not like a europeen rubber, I had to open a bit the blade angle, and physically go into the ball.
    This is what I had to do compensate.
    That's why I went for another rubber.
    More over I couldn't plays using touch play, an always had to play the ball 100%

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    #5
    I had the same problem, due to the hardness of the sponge and the very poor speed. So I just gave up and returned to Euro/Jap rubbers.

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    #6
    It would be easier to see what you're doing wrong if you post a video of yourself looping.

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    #7
    a few tips:
    1. learn how to brush or graze the ball upon contact during a loop.
    2. open your blade more when doing loop vs. underspin (sometimes this is the simple solution)
    3. because you are hitting the ball using more of the sponge instead of brushing it with the topsheet with less sponge, you cannot optimize your stroke. so lessen sponge contact and add more brushing action.

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  8. Der_Echte is offline
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    #8
    Yogi !!! Good tips.

    A few more while we are at it for the FAST ATTACK vs an incoming underspin ball.

    - Be sure to be in position and coiled ready.

    - Be sure to impact the ball at top of bounce or earlier

    - Be sure to generate VERY FAST bat speed. This stroke will not work if the bat speed is too slow

    - Be sure to open blade a little more vs heavier underspin.

    I kinda see the argument that without tuning, certain versions of H3 (mine was #19 sponge and was deader than a doornail) but NEO version is serviceable without tuning even after tuning effect wears out (my sheet is 2-3 yrs old on a spare bat)
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  9. elrigo99 is offline
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    #9
    Perhaps you could see the topic about Zhang Jike's techinque. There's a video in which he does slow spinny topspins on heavy underspin by Joo See Hyuk.

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    #10
    A slow, heavy spin loop is an excellent control option that if place extreme shallow or deep will give you a good ball back to go ballistic smash, but the OP is talking about a fast loop attack.

    You normally choose to do this (a slow, spinny loop landing deep) if you need more time to be in position, the ball is low and spinny, or you simply choose control on this shot and look for the next ball to attack strongly. A slow loop is not a bad choice, since if you are good at it, it is very likely to land and give you a better chance next ball.

    If the ball is long, has weak spin or is high, a fast loop is a good high percentage choice. Such a situation is a good opportunity for a strong attack to end the point. Attacking players should be ready for these chances and do what they can to set them up often.

    It is possible his new blade and rubber simply act different than his previous setup and needs to adjust his bat speed, blade angle, and moment of impact. It is also possible his new FH rubber in stock version is unacceptable performance or a bad glue job. So many things are possible, we just as first choice focus on technique in our comments.

    I recently built a bat with H3 #19 sponge and was very disappointed with its performance. Truth is, that sponge is flaming hot garbage without tuning. I did not know that at the time I bought it. My next H3 purchase will be commercial NEO version, a reliable rubber with acceptable predictable performance once it breaks in.
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  11. Der_Echte is offline
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    #11
    Oh crap, I just re-red OP original post and he is talking about a fast attack vs TOPSPIN ball.

    In that case I say the same things in my original replay, except that you close the blade more vs heavier topspin.

    - Be sure to be in position and coiled ready.

    - Be sure to impact the ball at top of bounce or earlier

    - Be sure to generate VERY FAST bat speed. This stroke will not work if the bat speed is too slow

    - Be sure to open blade a little more vs heavier underspin.

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    #12
    don't open the bat vs backspin (like euro/jap rubbers), if you are playing chinese rubbers, try to close the bat more (more forward motion than upward), tacky topsheet will do the job

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    Last edited by bachikho; 09-10-2014 at 01:56 AM.

  13. Maxwell Choi is offline
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    Thanks for the info, TTLOVE! I figured out that when doing a standard Chinese loop with H3 NEO like Ma Long or Fan Zhendong, your waist and your right leg generates the power enough to convert backspin into topspin. However, I've been wondering how the new poly ball might change the stroke. Any ideas out there?

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    #14
    Another problem is that Jap/Euro rubbers have a great catapult effect that you don't have to put in so much effort when doing the stroke. However, your natural body movement generates a lot of mechanical rubber such that the ball just flies off the table with no control at all. Lots of adjustment is necessary when changing from Chi rubber to Jap/Euro rubbers.

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    #15
    Generating bat speed is important to those strong attacking shots regardless of whether it is a "Euro" or "Chinese" attack. A fast loop is a fast loop, some like to take it earlier and some like to take it later and the ways to strike the ball are different, but you still gotta have bat speed. Maxwell hit it on the head saying you use your whole body starting with the legs and waist. So many things are important on a fast attack. Assuming all the basic stuff is correct like position and stance, the important thing becomes coordination of the large muscles and timing resulting in a bat that is accelerating and very fast at impact. The bat angles and swing planes are different for the objectives of each loop and the given ball. Also correctly stated before is the importance of swinging mostly forward. When you impact the ball off the bounce, you can get away with less opening the bat, but if the underspin ball bounces to net height and it is heavy, you have to open the bat a lot with that fast bat speed and a really forward swing.

    VS an incoming topspin, your bat speed can overcome a lot spin on the ball, but you still have to adjust bat angle. When playing away from the table at distance, you are not closing it as much.

    The new ball shapes up to be much easier to countertopspin safely if your fundamentals are solid. Placement and moving opponent around seem to have more importance than before.
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    #16
    the bounce of the new poly ball is more high and so is more easy looping backspin.

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    #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Maxwell Choi
    Lots of adjustment is necessary when changing from Chi rubber to Jap/Euro rubbers.
    I don't agree. It's easy to adjust from chinese rubber to Euro/JP rubber but it's very hard to do the opossite -> from Euro/JP style rubber to chinese. I really still didn't have a real chance to try hurricane 3 national version, but I would like to see myself looking like a fool :P

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    #18
    My trainer always says timing in topspin is really important. If you can get the ball when it is still going up then it'll be really easier to put it inside, and that is really true.

  19. Der_Echte is offline
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    #19
    That is also what is seemingly a national secret for blocking as well - taking the ball early. When in position, you see the ball better and can do more with it with control.

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    #20
    Quote Originally Posted by elrigo99
    My trainer always says timing in topspin is really important. If you can get the ball when it is still going up then it'll be really easier to put it inside, and that is really true.
    +1. It is a bit tricky though, but with proper training one can get the rhythm.

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