Tibhar Evolution MX-P

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I guess, one more related issue with a faster composite blade, and high end tensor rubbers. When all that other stuff is going on, if you do not have good technique it will cause you to cut down your stroke and make it smaller, perhaps even cause you not to follow through fully because you are trying to get the ball on the table. So, it can give you bad habits. And because the ball is going more than fast enough with this fast racket and the incomplete stroke, you are less likely to learn how to add your full body, your legs, your hips and the weight transfer into the ball on your stroke. So, until those things are built into your stroke, a faster composite blade could really cause your stroke to not develop how it should.

Really, this is all in the first post. But the touch and feel on the ball is one part of things. The ability to brush at different depths rather than purely driving the ball is another element to good technique which is of course related. The stroke and follow through, the bat speed and acceleration are another issue. And getting the body mechanics of timing the legs, hips and weight transfer are another element. A fast composite blade would make all of these elements much harder to learn, develop and get into your muscle memory and body mechanics. A player who already really has those ingrained in muscle memory will be able to use a faster composite blade. But a player whose technique is not that of an elite player, will only harm his development of those techniques by using something hard, fast and unforgiving.
 
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When I coach someone who is using a faster blade/setup at the intermediate level, the challenge is getting them to relax more and hit the ball more softly. The illusion of table tennis is that pros are getting rid of the ball as quickly as possible. It takes some time to see that pros are actually trying to hold on to the ball long enough to control it and impart spin/speed but release it quickly enough to prevent their opponent from having time to respond to the shot. Because the time the ball spends on the racket is relatively short, the beginner/intermediate sees the illusion of trying to hit the ball hard, but cannot see the wasted power that goes into spinning the ball. If pros actually hit the ball flat and hard with their strokes, their balls would fly long and gouge eyes.:p
 
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@upsidedowncarl thank you for your extended informative reply.

I now better understand the importance of having a racket that matches the players ability.

I played extensively at school and im happy to say it's been like getting back on the bike - although a rusty one. Maybe I have got a little ahead of myself in all the excitement of rediscovering the game again. I need to be more patient to get my gameplay back to where it was and possibly exceed it.

Reading your post has been a good refresher and reminded me of some playing habits that I need to pay attention to. Excellent post.
 
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@upsidedowncarl thank you for your extended informative reply.

I now better understand the importance of having a racket that matches the players ability.

I played extensively at school and im happy to say it's been like getting back on the bike - although a rusty one. Maybe I have got a little ahead of myself in all the excitement of rediscovering the game again. I need to be more patient to get my gameplay back to where it was and possibly exceed it.

Reading your post has been a good refresher and reminded me of some playing habits that I need to pay attention to. Excellent post.

The biggest problem I see among those who want to develop good technique is a desire to get good too fast because they don't see the risks of doing so and think that there are only benefits to trying and failing. There are also serious negatives as well unless the process is guided by a coach who is fully aware of the full process and is willing to talk you through it. So I am happy that Carl has opened your eyes.

For example, I often hear people who want to start with advanced equipment point to what children use. Children who use advanced equipment as a rule usually get more high level coaching, get better instruction, and most importantly, are not as reluctant to experiment as adults are. Therefore, they make and miss shots with their equipment that fully round out the learning process. When you combine this with the improved instruction and their modelling of better players intuitively, they can use just about anything.

With adults, my experience is that every single miss makes the adult depressed, tense or <insert whatever negative emotion comes to mind here>. If adults had the time and were more willing to embrace the importance of error as part of the learning process, the fact that the faster equipment acerbates errors would probably be less of an issue in teaching some of them. But then, there are still issues like the lower feedback that the adults get from faster equipment that are harder to control for. So rather than rely on talent to fix the problem, I just start people off with middle of the road stuff, change the rubber after a while and then depending on how they want to play, change the blade too. But whether you get better or not, the #1 thing I stress is to be relaxed. Tense technique is destructive.

If forced to choosed between MX-P and T05, I am still a T05 fan, BTW.
 
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Thanks for your input guys.

I just realized that the Tibhar Drinkhall racket reviewed recently was equipped with 2x MX-P and the there were no complaints on the matching of the two.
It is also a 5 Ply wood blade and according to the manufacturer stats i have seen on TD reviews, the TSPW should is the faster of the two - 9.0 v 7.8.
Unfortunately the user stats don't quite match up & give speed ratings of 8.4 v 8.8 to and hardness 5.1 v 8.8 to to Drinkhall. Not show how to interpret user stats v manufacture stats.

I was initially hoping to get the KJH blade to go with new rubbers but couldn't find a European seller.
I was surprised that it's not even listed on the Tibhar online store.

Does it sell under another name in EU ?

Can someone please point me in the right direction. Maybe a future consideration.

*Post Edited

Nexy Europe does not stock the KJH. Kim Jung Hoon told Nexy Korea President what he wanted for the blade and he designed it under the Tibhar brand as a Korea-Only thing. Nexy USA imported it too.

Since Nexy Europe doesn't carry it on their wesite, try Nexy Korea (nexy.com) but you are gunna pay for international shipping. The KJH is worth it. If the website doesn't show it, email the manager Lee [email protected] and he will quote you a price consistent with the Korean TAK9.com website, prolly $120 USD.
 
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Nexy Europe does not stock the KJH. Kim Jung Hoon told Nexy Korea President what he wanted for the blade and he designed it under the Tibhar brand as a Korea-Only thing. Nexy USA imported it too.

Since Nexy Europe doesn't carry it on their wesite, try Nexy Korea (nexy.com) but you are gunna pay for international shipping. The KJH is worth it. If the website doesn't show it, email the manager Lee [email protected] and he will quote you a price consistent with the Korean TAK9.com website, prolly $120 USD.

Yep. Probably easiest to get it from NexyUSA.com.


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Thanks for your input guys.

I just realized that the Tibhar Drinkhall racket reviewed recently was equipped with 2x MX-P and the there were no complaints on the matching of the two.
It is also a 5 Ply wood blade and according to the manufacturer stats i have seen on TD reviews, the TSPW should is the faster of the two - 9.0 v 7.8.
Unfortunately the user stats don't quite match up & give speed ratings of 8.4 v 8.8 to and hardness 5.1 v 8.8 to to Drinkhall. Not show how to interpret user stats v manufacture stats.

I was initially hoping to get the KJH blade to go with new rubbers but couldn't find a European seller.
I was surprised that it's not even listed on the Tibhar online store.

Does it sell under another name in EU ?

Can someone please point me in the right direction. Maybe a future consideration.

*Post Edited

I guess, one more related issue with a faster composite blade, and high end tensor rubbers. When all that other stuff is going on, if you do not have good technique it will cause you to cut down your stroke and make it smaller, perhaps even cause you not to follow through fully because you are trying to get the ball on the table. So, it can give you bad habits. And because the ball is going more than fast enough with this fast racket and the incomplete stroke, you are less likely to learn how to add your full body, your legs, your hips and the weight transfer into the ball on your stroke. So, until those things are built into your stroke, a faster composite blade could really cause your stroke to not develop how it should.

Really, this is all in the first post. But the touch and feel on the ball is one part of things. The ability to brush at different depths rather than purely driving the ball is another element to good technique which is of course related. The stroke and follow through, the bat speed and acceleration are another issue. And getting the body mechanics of timing the legs, hips and weight transfer are another element. A fast composite blade would make all of these elements much harder to learn, develop and get into your muscle memory and body mechanics. A player who already really has those ingrained in muscle memory will be able to use a faster composite blade. But a player whose technique is not that of an elite player, will only harm his development of those techniques by using something hard, fast and unforgiving.

Carl, you are absolutely RIGHT in ALL that you said above and that is a classic (proper, yes) pundit position, but let's be real... most errors at that level are from misreading spin, not comprehending spin, tactics and a hundred other things.

At the end of the day, I agree with the pundit camp and advocate middle of the road for control spin pace equipment when learning.
 
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Thank you guys again for sharing your valuable wisdom.

The KJH is going to go on hold because of the difficulty to get hold of it in UK combined with costs inc. duty taxes. Maybe I will be lucky to pick up a used one in the future and swap over rubbers.

For now I will with be ordering the TSPW blade and I still need to decide on rubbers.
The club I attend has allowed me to borrow an old racket with 2x T05 rubber on a donic blade. The rubbers on that blade are pretty much worn out and I have still been able to play with a good offensive forehand and the backhand wasn't too bad either considering it's always been my weaker hand. For this reason I thought the MX-P might be a good rubber for me as is it is considered a good T05 alternative. Also the MX-P is reported to be quite durable and able to maintain its characteristics for a good while which is also attractive. I read user reviews of EL-P pointing out its characteristics changed for the worse quite quickly with time which is not encouraging. I was thinking of using this on BH.

I would have had my order completed & delivered by now was it not for the fact that the EL-P in 2mm red for BH is still out of stock with TT11. Waiting around to get my racket ordered has given me too much time to ponder too many other possibilities inc. KJH, MX-P x2 etc. It's driving me crazy.
I can't wait to have my own racket in my hands so that I can start to play with it consistently and learn and to make necessary adjustments.
 
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For now I will with be ordering the TSPW blade and I still need to decide on rubbers.
The club I attend has allowed me to borrow an old racket with 2x T05 rubber on a donic blade. The rubbers on that blade are pretty much worn out and I have still been able to play with a good offensive forehand and the backhand wasn't too bad either considering it's always been my weaker hand. For this reason I thought the MX-P might be a good rubber for me as is it is considered a good T05 alternative. Also the MX-P is reported to be quite durable and able to maintain its characteristics for a good while which is also attractive. I read user reviews of EL-P pointing out its characteristics changed for the worse quite quickly with time which is not encouraging. I was thinking of using this on BH.

What blade are you referring to when you say TSPW? Tibhar Stratus Power Wood? Or a blade from TSP? I think the Power Wood.

Also, you should know, MX-P is pretty hard. It is better for someone who gets big impact like pro or semipro level. If your impact is consistent, deep and powerful on brush strokes (I know, brush + big impact sounds funny) then it is very good. If not, you are better off with EL-P or FX-P. Like, MX-P is a decent notch and a half harder than T05.

You definitely should not get MX-P for your backhand if what you said above is the case. You probably shouldn't get MX-P for forehand based on what got me started on information on good rackets.

That Stratus Power Wood, or the Drinkhall Offensive Classic should be good choices for a blade so I think you are on the right track there. I think FX-P on both sides or EL-P on FH with FX-P on BH would be a good combination.

It should not be a big problem to wait till EL-P is in before getting your racket. But, based on what you said about your backhand you should probably be using FX-P for backhand.
 
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You are correct, its a Tibhar Stratus Power Wood.

With it being not a particularly hard blade (7ply/carbon) I thought the MX-P might be slowed down a little and possibly balance it out so that it is closer in performance to T05. What do you think ?

I'm attracted to the MX-P because of its playing characteristics & also its durability. I'm under the impressions it's more durable than the Vega range that I was considering before I discovered the merits of the MX-P.

I read some user complaints saying the EL-P characteristics kept on changing with time. Am I right to believe that the EL-P is heavy boosted rubber and its performance starts diminishing rather quickly ? Maybe Auris or 5Q range are better on backhand ?
 
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I have tried MX-P and FX-P. I actually have not tried EL-P so I could be wrong, but I think EL-P should primarily be half way between them in hardness. I think the topsheet is slightly different but it shouldn't be that different. That being said, it is true, I have not heard many great things about EL-P.

MX-P is pretty hard. You might be fine with it on FH. But you would probably be better off with FX-P since you are leery of EL-P.

In the end, nothing too bad will happen if you get MX-P for your forehand. I could be wrong and it could work well. But my experience is, if you are not at a decently high level with the technique of your FH you won't fully get the gears and potential that MX-P offers when you can brush deep with big impact.

But, based on something you said about your BH you will definitely not be wanting MX-P on BH and FX-P would probably be a very good option for the BH. Sure there are loads of other options. But FX-P would probably be good for you on both sides. And the odds are that FX-P would be better for you on FH than MX-P.


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You are correct, its a Tibhar Stratus Power Wood.

With it being not a particularly hard blade (7ply/carbon) I thought the MX-P might be slowed down a little and possibly balance it out so that it is closer in performance to T05. What do you think ?

I'm attracted to the MX-P because of its playing characteristics & also its durability. I'm under the impressions it's more durable than the Vega range that I was considering before I discovered the merits of the MX-P.

I read some user complaints saying the EL-P characteristics kept on changing with time. Am I right to believe that the EL-P is heavy boosted rubber and its performance starts diminishing rather quickly ? Maybe Auris or 5Q range are better on backhand ?

Beware of reading too much into table tennis reviews if you don't know much about the reviewer. BTW, MX-P is at least as heavily boosted as EL-P.
 
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@NextLevel Unfortunately I have no chance to try these rubbers out first hand. Only thing I can do is read many user opinions as possible and than try to form an opinion of its suitability. Going by manufacturer stats alone EL-P on FH with EL-P/FX-P on BH is probably the best combo for me right now.
As UpsideSownCarl commented the opinions on EL-P are not too positive when it comes to durability.
I would happy to hear otherwise from some users that champion the EL-P.

@UpsideDownCarl FX-P/FX-P combo is a possibly a good suggestion. Concern is that it it might not be fast enough for my offensive Forehand.
In a rally I like to be able to play mid distance back and loop hard and fast with the ball traveling very low. I have enjoyed being able to do this with the T05.

Unless someone can redeem the EL-P I think I will compromise and go with MX-P/FX-P combo. At least this way I can get to try out two different Tihbar rubbers and than possibly sell one if it is not suitable.
 
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I think that is a fair assessment. When you get the two, flip the racket around every so often to see if FX-P works for your FH too. I felt it was pretty fine when I tried it. I would be totally fine using FX-P on both sides. It felt more than fast enough to me. And really good for spinning the ball.


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@NextLevel Unfortunately I have no chance to try these rubbers out first hand. Only thing I can do is read many user opinions as possible and than try to form an opinion of its suitability. Going by manufacturer stats alone EL-P on FH with EL-P/FX-P on BH is probably the best combo for me right now.
As UpsideSownCarl commented the opinions on EL-P are not too positive when it comes to durability.
I would happy to hear otherwise from some users that champion the EL-P.

@UpsideDownCarl FX-P/FX-P combo is a possibly a good suggestion. Concern is that it it might not be fast enough for my offensive Forehand.
In a rally I like to be able to play mid distance back and loop hard and fast with the ball traveling very low. I have enjoyed being able to do this with the T05.

Unless someone can redeem the EL-P I think I will compromise and go with MX-P/FX-P combo. At least this way I can get to try out two different Tihbar rubbers and than possibly sell one if it is not suitable.

Many people have said very good things about EL-P on mytabletennis.net so I have not heard the negative reports about its durability until today. But again, this is something that you decide as you see fit. If I trusted what people said about the durability of Donic Baracuda online, I would never use it for all the wrong reasons.
 
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Many people have said very good things about EL-P on mytabletennis.net so I have not heard the negative reports about its durability until today. But again, this is something that you decide as you see fit. If I trusted what people said about the durability of Donic Baracuda online, I would never use it for all the wrong reasons.

Yeah, I have to be honest, I can't imagine that MX-P and FX-P would be so good and the one that is half way in between them not be as good. And my MX-P is lasting pretty darn well. I have had it for a bit over 2.5 months and it still feels spinny as all get out.
 
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Pulled the trigger today and went with MX/FX-P combo on TSPW.

I feel relieved that at last I have placed the order as I have been wasting way too much time pondering back and forth.
I can't wait to get the new racket into my hands ; )

Will report back how I get on with the two rubbers.

Thanks NextLevel & UpsidedownCarl for all of your invaluable advice.
I went through number of other threads and also found your input very helpful.

Guys like you clearly make this site what it is. Cheers !
 
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I suggest you new Cornilleau Target Pro GT47
or one of the Tibhar Evolution series MX-S

both excellent results on carbon layers especially with poly balls

See, maybe I missed something, but I just don't get stuff like this. Mar5kid has said he already ordered. He was looking for an all wood blade and here you have someone suggesting rubbers for a carbon blade.

I don't know. Maybe he posted without seeing that Mar5kid already ordered and is exited to try the new setup. But, still, if he is talking about how certain rubbers work with carbon he can't have actually read or understood too much from the thread.

Oh well, it is all good. I am sure TomasZ was just trying to be helpful.

But reading the thread makes it much more possible to help someone. It is interesting how often I see comments where it is obvious the person could not have read the previous comments in the thread.

Like this:

Question: "I am looking for a good all wood blade that is 5 ply and not too fast. Hopefully the blade costs less than $120.00 (USD) Can anyone help?"

Reply: "Try the Jun Mizutani Super ZLC it is really fast!"

Wait, all wood, not too fast, JM SZLC??????

I've actually seen that one.


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