Let's talk about seamless plastic ball

Tony's Table Tennis · Oct 15, 2014

There is 2 manufactories in China, 1 in Germany and 1 in Japan. The 2 in China has date back over a year or two already....
The patent rights to these "poly balls" does not belong to the manufactory

There was a delay/dispute in manufactoring regarding patent rights, but that got nothing to do with the amount of poly ball equip manufactories - which is increasing in numbers since 1 July 2014 already.

How ITTF Poly Ball approval works is that the manufactory will get 3 Star balls approved.
Then brands will design the label to be used on these 3 star approved balls. Then the "complete" balls will be approved by ITTF

From theory, all balls from the same factory should be the same, as the factories only have 1 set of approved balls (unless they have many sets - where the chance is slim). As I know, only 1 manufactory has the technology to make seamless

There was an ITTF presentation made few months ago regarding the above. I'm sure it is searchable on the internet

Baal · Oct 15, 2014

alexander.groh said:
Does it means there is no point using different brands - if all balls are manufactured by one manufacturer, do they differ? I though somebody said there was five manufactures,so I am little bit confused now.. [emoji4]

There are five manufacturers of PLASTIC 40+ balls. Among these, only XSF currently makes the SEAMLESS version of plastic balls currently sold. Three factories make seamed plastic balls. One other has a seamless technology but as far as I can tell, has not brought a ball to market.

The XSF ITTF approved ball is quite good. They manufacture balls for Yinhe, Nexy, Stag, Palio and some others. They also make a variety of 1 and 2 star training balls using some variation of the process. Don't mistake those for the ITTF approved versions.

There is apparently some history behind this. DHS originally had an agreement with XSF and Palio to make a joint operation out off the seamless ball, which uses a new technology altogether, and also a new material, but somehow disputes arose. So DHS ended up making balls using a different plastic (not the same as in DHS), to make balls using the same procedures they always used to make seamed celluloid balls. DF does the same thing. All but one of the seamed polyballs sold today are made in those two plants by what is essentially a new materaial but an old process. The result is a fragile ball with a low bounce.

Nittaku in Japan is now selling a seamed ball that is quite different in terms of process and material. That ball is not to be confused with the Nittaku SHA 40+ which is the same as the DHS ball. It bounces more like celluloid than other seamed balls.

alexander.groh · Oct 15, 2014

Baal said:
There are five manufacturers of PLASTIC 40+ balls. Among these, only XSF currently makes the SEAMLESS version of plastic balls currently sold. Three factories make seamed plastic balls. One other has a seamless technology but as far as I can tell, has not brought a ball to market.

The XSF ITTF approved ball is quite good. They manufacture balls for Yinhe, Nexy, Stag, Palio and some others. They also make a variety of 1 and 2 star training balls using some variation of the process. Don't mistake those for the ITTF approved versions.

There is apparently some history behind this. DHS originally had an agreement with XSF and Palio to make a joint operation out off the seamless ball, which uses a new technology altogether, and also a new material, but somehow disputes arose. So DHS ended up making balls using a different plastic (not the same as in DHS), to make balls using the same procedures they always used to make seamed celluloid balls. DF does the same thing. All but one of the seamed polyballs sold today are made in those two plants by what is essentially a new materaial but an old process. The result is a fragile ball with a low bounce.

Nittaku in Japan is now selling a seamed ball that is quite different in terms of process and material. That ball is not to be confused with the Nittaku SHA 40+ which is the same as the DHS ball. It bounces more like celluloid than other seamed balls.

Thanks! Sorry for my stupidity

Tony's Table Tennis · Oct 16, 2014

Yes, Baal is right,

It is 3 in China, 1 in Germany and 1 in Japan
Namely

DHS, Double Fish and Xushaofa from China
Nittaku from Japan
Weener from Germany

Not sure how I remembered only 2 from China...lol

TTFrenzy · Oct 16, 2014

Tony's Table Tennis said:
Yes, Baal is right,

It is 3 in China, 1 in Germany and 1 in Japan
Namely

DHS, Double Fish and Xushaofa from China
Nittaku from Japan
Weener from Germany

Not sure how I remembered only 2 from China...lol

weener from germany? I ve never heard this company have you tested its balls Tony?

In 3 months from now the poly ball will be the official ball in all the divisions of the Greek championships.

If anyone has tried 72-144 balls packages 1 star or training balls with good durability please provide me some info about which company to select.

Correct me if Im wrong but from what I have read so far in forums and other players reviews, the only seamless ball and probably the one with the best durability is the 3 star from XushaoFa

Baal · Oct 16, 2014

The ITTF approved XSF ball is very good at a very good price. Round, plays well, high bounce, excellent durability. Like all 40+ balls it is a little slower and a little less spin.

Weener was mentioned in an ITTF document but have not brought a ball to market as far as I know.

I'm not sure what to recommend for a 40+ training ball.

TTFrenzy · Oct 17, 2014

Baal said:
The ITTF approved XSF ball is very good at a very good price. Round, plays well, high bounce, excellent durability. Like all 40+ balls it is a little slower and a little less spin.

Weener was mentioned in an ITTF document but have not brought a ball to market as far as I know.

I'm not sure what to recommend for a 40+ training ball.

Thanks alot my friend. I hope the new poly balls are durable as the celluloid ones. A 144 celluloid balls package approximately 5-6 months max before the balls start to wear out and lose weight thus efficient grip on the rubbers. I hope they make them better without any breakings after some training sessions

Baal · Oct 18, 2014

TTFrenzy said:
Thanks alot my friend. I hope the new poly balls are durable as the celluloid ones. A 144 celluloid balls package approximately 5-6 months max before the balls start to wear out and lose weight thus efficient grip on the rubbers. I hope they make them better without any breakings after some training sessions

If durability is an issue, I would avoid the seamed Chinese polyballs for awhile at least. They really need to improve that.

Baal · Oct 18, 2014

SOmebody asked if, given that the Chinese seamed balls are all made the same, if there is any use to trying different brands. The answer is possibly. This is because Double Fish and DHS seamed balls are made by the same (or similar) process but at different factories. I have seen several comments on varioius forums that the Double Fish are better than the various brands made in DHS factory (which includes nearly all the other brands). That's not been my experience but some people may be using Double Fish balls made a bit more recently than the ones I tried. Maybe they have improved? I don't really know.

I have been playing with Nittaku Premium Japan 40+ balls that I just received from Iruiru. In terms of playing properties these are the best ones of all. Nice high bounce like XSF, but maybe a little more solid feeling (but my guess is they will be less durable based on how they are wearing on the surface). In my experience these and the XSF 3-star are best and there is a gap and then all others.

Wally · Oct 21, 2014

Hi,
I've recently tried new german seamless balls by a brand called HANNO (http://www.hanno-tischtennis.de/).

The bounce was pretty normal compared to some of the seamed balls, but it felt like there was less spin than on other polyballs.

The store I bought them at said they were made in Germany.

Has anyone else tried those balls as well?

Baal · Oct 21, 2014

Wally, I strongly suspect that this ball is made by XSF, for two reasons. The first reason is that this document here http://www.ittf.com/stories/pictures/Plastic_Balls_Q_A.pdf from ITTF seems to say that the German ball (manufactured by a company called Weener) has seams. Only XSF is currently manufacturing a seamless ball. Also, what you describe could also apply to XSF, which is arguably slightly less spinny than, say, DHS, certainly less spinny than the Nittaku Premium 40+ that is made in Japan. However XSF has a more normal bounce than Chinese seamless.

I have not tried them though.

Sergio Gonzalez · Oct 21, 2014

The balls are broken 15 minutes or even less -.- , but make easy the top against top spin game

allencorn · Oct 21, 2014

Der_Echte said:
Baal better hurry up to join me....

Ah, but has anyone burned a polyball? The celluloid balls were great fun to burn.

kamkaran · Oct 21, 2014

Hi!
I guess Its fantastic!!!!

Wally · Oct 21, 2014

Baal, yeah the way you describe the XSF sounds very similar to the German one. I've tried the seamed Stiga and Tibhar and they were both more spinny but the bounce seemed a bit off. With the German seamless ball I didn't have the issue of misjudging the bounce/length but it felt like the ball lost a lot of spin. Makes it easier to play topsin rallies though

Der_Echte · Oct 21, 2014

If that device in my pics fails to annihilate whatever you are trying to burn, it is time to run for the hills for Ur lives !!

Baal · Oct 21, 2014

Given my choice, I would play with the Nittaku Premium 40+ ball that is made in Japan. I got a few of those from Iruiru (and once again they are indefinitely back-ordered). They are really good. Best playing ball of all but really expensive even when you can actually buy the damned things, which seems not to be the case at the moment. BUT, the good seamless balls like XSF are the next best thing (if they are ITTF-approved ones), and best of all, you can actually buy them now at a fair price.

The Chinese balls with seams (that is, everything else!!) ALL deserve the Der Echte solution (including the Nittaku SHA 40+ ball, which is not the same thing as the one I mentioned above).

UpSideDownCarl · Oct 29, 2014

allencorn said:
Ah, but has anyone burned a polyball? The celluloid balls were great fun to burn.

Hahaha. I Love Der_Echte's photo.

Let's try it side by side, poly ball vs celluloid ball whichever burns better, the ITTF has to use it.

Celluloid burns like a comet.

igorponger · Nov 4, 2014

ITTF does want the ball less spinny.

The new plastics stand for lower rotation speed and better controlled play, so ITTF will favour it so much.

Yinhe40+ is now the best reputed seamless ball.

igorponger · Nov 4, 2014

http://www.ittf.com/stories/Stories_detail.asp?ID=206

ITTF does want the ball less spinny.

The new plastics stand for lower rotation speed and better controlled play, so ITTF will favour it so much.

Let's talk about seamless plastic ball

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