Ultimate Shakehand Player vs Ultimate Penhold player. Who will win?

UpSideDownCarl said:

I would say a better test would be World Champions and I think penholders used to have a good record but since 1989 I believe there have been 2 penhold world champions and 11 shakehand world champions. The penholders are Liu Gouliang and Wang Hao. The shakehand world champions are J.O. Waldner (2x), Jorgen Persson, JP Gatien, Kong Linghui, Wang Liqin (3x), Werner Schlager, and Zhang Jike (2x).

Another good way of looking at it is the number of penholders in the top 20 or even on the CNT. Right now, I believe there are 2 penholders in the top 20. Both are in the top 6.

Penhold is a very strong style which has certain distinct advantages. It also has two huge disadvantages that have caused it to be used less at the highest levels of play. The advantages are short game, serve, use of wrist for spin in all shots. Powerful forehand. If a player can master the RBP that eliminates one of the disadvantages which is the backhand. At mid level play the traditional penhold backhand can be an asset if used well. But at the highest levels the traditional penhold backhand is not that effective most of the time. Only thing with the RBP, the only high level player who has mastered it to the point where he uses it almost exclusively is Wang Hao.

The biggest disadvantage to penhold is that it is a rare art form that takes much more time and effort to truly master.

I think these reasons are why China now has so many shakehand players who are so good at the highest levels.

All that being said, a great penhold player, as rare as that has become, is a true force to be reckoned with.

One thing I would say about your list of skills, don't underestimate Ryu Seung Min's forehand. That was one of the best forehands ever. Just watch his matches from the 2004 Olympics when he was playing his best.




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MegaZZ said:

The idea that world elite penhold players (talking at least top 10) are generally harder to develop compared with shakehand is very true, I would say even to get to a strong club level say 2200-2400 for a beginner, its easier (takes relatively less time) for a shakehand player. Liu Guoliang has also said this was CNT's experience over the years in developing penhold players and one reason why even China will soon only have one top penhold player (thats Xu Xin as it's pretty clear that Wang Hao is in semi retirement mode). I personally think this will also be one reason why Xu Xin will likely make the 2 player 2016 Rio Olympics singles if he sustains his current form, even though I would definitely say both Ma Long and Zhang Jike have an edge over him now. There has been at least one penholder for China in every Olympics I am pretty sure for the past 20 years and quite possibly longer, so Xu Xin will probably get a chance, the CNT doesn't care as much who wins so long as the 2 chinese players they send are likely to beat all the foreign players and currently Xu Xin is in the zone to do that and he is the only penholder who can at this moment.

I started as penhold for first 2 years then changed to shakehand for the last year. I can already play better 10-20% with shakehand though of course in the first 2 years I got a lot of fundamentals when playing penhold. The game tactics are quite different for the two styles, I find with penhold you need to especially make use of points when you serve.

In the end though, the best way of playing really depends on you, just like the best blade, rubber and ball is also a subjective experience. I hope that there will be some kind of penhold revival, just to enhance variety.

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