Kim Juhng Hoon teaches basic BH defense at table

says 2023 Certified Organ Donor
says 2023 Certified Organ Donor
Well-Known Member
Sep 2011
12,821
13,210
30,388
Read 27 reviews
Nexy / TAK9.com uploaded a vid last year where Kim Juhng Hoon teaches basic at the table BH defense vs fast drives and slower/spinnier loops.

2/3 of the 30 minute lesson covered how to defend at the table vs an incoming fast topspin drive (that doesn't carry a ton of spin)

the last 1/3 was vs a slower and spinnier loop


I write the tips down in the order KJH was giving out the advice

DEFENSE CLOSE TO TABLE VS A VERY FAST DRIVE

- Position yourself close to the table. You have to take the ball a foot or so in front of you and you need to be as close to the ball as you can. It is also easier to get your body down to the ball and be more consistent

- Hold bat steady, do not shake bat or wrist or arm, it will cause you to be inconsistent

- Square up to where you want the ball to go

- You can chop down and forward through the ball at impact some as a variation if there is more than just a little spin

- Use your body to absorb some of the force of the ball if you are not trying to push through the ball (The Western world calls this PUNCHING through the ball)

- Stay low, wide and bent at knees/waist, it helps stabilize your position, increases your consistency, and helps you adjust position efficiently

- IMPORTANT to get ball back safe - priority #1

- No real swing is needed, you will make miss after miss doing that. Hold bat firm

- When you push (punch) through the ball (to make a return with more pace) do NOT use the wrist, keep it all locked up

- Use the shoulder and elbow joints as a hinge to move upper and lower arm in a controlled manner forward to (and through) the ball using your stance as a stable base

- Plant your self right up to the table at the corner and be ready to cover the corner, past the corner, and almost up to the middle line with your BH. Get it in your mind your left and right limit of when you will use your BH, it will simplify your decision making and make you play much faster and stable

VS AN INCOMING SLOWER HEAVIER SPIN LOOP

- This is more difficult to do (you have to read the depth and get right up on the ball) (That involves moving sometimes)

- 2 methods (Soft block and Hard Block) Hardness of return determined by a softer grip and no punch at impact for soft return and a firm grip and punch at impact for hard return in a similar manner using shoulder/elbow joints as a hinge to move upper & lower arm in a controlled punch with the wide stance making your position steady anchored supporting your shot

- Do NOT back off the table, you will not have angles open to you and it will be MUCH harder to control the spin, plus you play quicker close to the table and rob opponent of time

- Do NOT try to overpower the ball, it won't work at your level, focus on steady position wide and bent supporting you when you decide to push (punch) through the ball. You will still generate one mean little punch return if you do it right. No need to try to kill the ball wildly off balance off time as you will only fail going down that road

- If the slow spinny loop is going to land shallow, like middle of table depth, recognize it early, step in under table and use upper/lower arm to double hinge push (punch) through the ball firmly with some more force (controlled with help of wide, stable position) to produce a fast punch return.

- If the ball is coming RIGHT at your body (or you can get your body into that position (and be planted in time) when ball arrives right at your body) you can swing / pivot on your hips (along with using your push (punch) stroke to guide the ball down the line as a variation of location on your return

- Position is important, crowd the table at the corner and get down and wide

- If the ball is shallow, step in, do NOT swing to power the ball. You are trying to take the ball early, stepping in to look over the ball lets you see it and time your punch well, plus you have the leverage to use your double hinge to let the upper / lower arm punch through and make the power for you. Trust that this will produce a fast return difficult for opponent. After all, you are doing this before ball reaches endline and you are giving opponent precious little time to react if you do this shot right

*** Vid no longer up... ***

KJH has new club and new vid series - vids on BH defense

Vid 1 part 1


Vid 1 part 2


Vid 2 part 2


Vid 2 part 2

 
Last edited:
This user has no status.
This user has no status.
Member
Mar 2014
206
105
472
Amazing!! Thank you so much!
KJH's punch block looks so much alike Fan Zhen Dong's punch block. Can't wait to try the tips.
 
says 2023 Certified Organ Donor
says 2023 Certified Organ Donor
Well-Known Member
Sep 2011
12,821
13,210
30,388
Read 27 reviews
I was already a pretty good blocker at the table and often get more points from blocking than macho attacking, (when playing people near my level) so I wasn't really expecting to get much new insight into the science and art of blocking at the table, I already do that way better than the average guy at my level.

In the short vid clip where Carl and I met up we were goofing around giving each other chances to attack and look good. We all want as athletic young players (I am almost on the WRONG side of 50 haha) to attack with stealth, power, and awe. We do that sometimes in a rally successfully, but more often than not, for ME, I tend to make more of my points keeping it on the table better than my opponent, despite my primal urges to be attacking strongly like the one who bites off the head of his enemy in combat and deficates down what remains of his neck... still, I do not make the most of my money playing like that. Such style of play is fantasy and a quick way to lose a lot of points (and matches) for what my current skills are developed.

Yet one thing that stood out about this vid I never really tried was to swing and pivot at the hips to move my entire upper body to guide the punch block down the line.

Normally, I would rely on my elbow and wrist angle to create that angle of a block. My method is trickier to get right as 2 elements must be placed in a position that might not be natural or allow fluid movement to make the shot right.

KJH's variation of using the waist twist uncoil to guide the ball seems pretty natural and still allows you to use maximum control of the upper /lower arm with enough power within reasonable control.

That tips was a nugget for me.
 
This user has no status.
This user has no status.
Member
Mar 2014
206
105
472
same for me, I never tried that technique. I watched Fan Zhen Dong did it many times but it's totally different when someone tell you exactly how to do it. I can't wait to try all these tips next time I practice.

Your style sounds the opposite of mine, I play like (a very bad version of) Ma Long :D, attacking all the time. Not really the best style for an amateur but like you said, I love that feeling of attacking "with stealth, power, and awe". But it's really physically demanding and I often lose easily whenever I'm not 100% fit.

I like to add new things to my game and my insight of the game, that's why I really love these videos and tips. Thanks again.
 
says 2023 Certified Organ Donor
says 2023 Certified Organ Donor
Well-Known Member
Sep 2011
12,821
13,210
30,388
Read 27 reviews
iammaru, ask Carl (upsidedowncarl) what my playing style is. There are times I want to be the attacker at all costs, and there are times I play it safer, allow opponent to attack and play at the table defense. Often, if I can control my opponents options, playing a blocking game is much higher percentage and lower risk. Thing is, if you play a player who is around your level and allow them to attack first, you are not going to control them all the time, or you would be way better than them. Still, I play a defensive/opportunistic offensive blocking game when I do not feel right going all out attacking, especially with receiving some certain serves.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Rajah*
says 2023 Certified Organ Donor
says 2023 Certified Organ Donor
Well-Known Member
Sep 2011
12,821
13,210
30,388
Read 27 reviews
We cant win every point with overwhelming brute force??? Isn't that how the world works and so should TT?

Haha good one dude.

You are right and keeping it real. Yet, a lot of newer players lose many many points from going for macho offensive shots they have little chance to land at their level of training and consistency.
 
says 2023 Certified Organ Donor
says 2023 Certified Organ Donor
Well-Known Member
Sep 2011
12,821
13,210
30,388
Read 27 reviews
On the flip side, if one wants to become an attacker who attacks at every chance, one doesn't get there by blocking or pushing every attacking chance or half chance either. One has to fail first before succeeding in many cases.

There is forever a valid disagreement amongst players and coaches alike of how to apply judgment of how/when/if to attack.

Ask a dozen and you will get different answers.
 
This user has no status.
This user has no status.
Member
Mar 2014
206
105
472
Iammaru as a player we have to be "unpredictably flexible" being an attacker and a defender both aspect should be present. We need to be wise.. not every point can be won with raw display of power

Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk
Thanks. I know it. But it's hard to change my habit after 15 years playing that way :D I try to be unpredictable sometimes but normally it doesn't work because my defense skill is pretty bad for my level. Of course i want to change it and add new things to my game (including defense skills).
 
Last edited:
says 2023 Certified Organ Donor
says 2023 Certified Organ Donor
Well-Known Member
Sep 2011
12,821
13,210
30,388
Read 27 reviews
On the forum, Der_Echte sounds like he plays more aggressive macho than GI Joe himself. That is nice, but for real, I am proud that I play defense at the table when others might look negatively upon that. I am not ashamed that I win a fair share of points by blocking close to the table like Kim Jung Hoon is teaching.

Yup, I would like to become moar of a lethal attacker myself, just ask Carl, but I am not yet ready to go full time attacker just yet.
 
This user has no status.
This user has no status.
Member
Mar 2014
206
105
472
Der_Echte, can you do this next (when you have time), please? (forehand flick)

 
says 2023 Certified Organ Donor
says 2023 Certified Organ Donor
Well-Known Member
Sep 2011
12,821
13,210
30,388
Read 27 reviews
Haha, KJH teaches the FH flick...

I saw a bit of this vid and the biggest thing this guy does incorrect is he hits the ball too far in front, so he hits soft to land it. When he waited for the ball to come deeper into his strike zone, even when the ball was lower than the net, he was able to drive it very fast and still land it consistent.

The 3 biggest takeaways were...

1) Move in, step under table, look over the ball

2) Wait for the ball to come into your strike zone

3) Hit through the ball confidently, it will go in
 
  • Like
Reactions: talbon and iammaru
says 2023 Certified Organ Donor
says 2023 Certified Organ Donor
Well-Known Member
Sep 2011
12,821
13,210
30,388
Read 27 reviews
KJH must said a million times to that dude to WAIT A LITTLE MORE. When dude did that, good things happened.

He told dude that if he wanted to flick to opponent's BH, he needed to wait some more to have that option.

He emphasized the important of stepping in UNDER the table with your hitting leg.

One thing that is different from the basic training coaches give us is this nugget at 31:00 is that even when you do not exactly know the amount of spin, you can overcome it with your impact. Strong impact, Solid impact. You visualize where you want to put the ball, step in under the table, wait for the ball, and let your shot go, yes, just go for it with solid strong impact and you can overcome some misjudging on reading the correct amount of spin.

At the very end, he said that dude's problem wasn't technique, but a lack of RYTHM to and through the ball (that word Bak-Ja also has a connotation of timing to it as well). haha, I remember an Andro vid where a whole section covering moving into position called in German "Der Tanz zum Ball" or in English, the Dance to the Ball.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: talbon and iammaru
This user has no status.
This user has no status.
Member
Mar 2014
206
105
472
Thanks a lot!!
What about the body? Sometimes he lowered his body (very low) and sometimes he didn't. Did he say something about that?
He also seemed to demonstrate correct and incorrect techniques in the video and I can't tell which ones were correct and which are not. Most of his flicks look good to me and he did a little different each time. Can you tell me?

I'm sorry to have bothered you. The FH flick has been my weakness for a long time and I truly appreciate any tips, even very small tips.
 
Last edited:
says 2023 Certified Organ Donor
says 2023 Certified Organ Donor
Well-Known Member
Sep 2011
12,821
13,210
30,388
Read 27 reviews
The thing he did incorrect was smash power he did that to show that even with a short stroke one could put a lot of power into the ball to support his point that one uses a short stroke to make plenty of power at impact and not baby the hit at impact.

He did correct the player earlier about swinging to the side instead of forward through the ball, when KHJ did that he showed how the ball doesn't land every time hitting like that, maybe you were talking about that.

If you told me at which exact minute time in the vid he did this it would be easier for me to answer.
 
  • Like
Reactions: iammaru
This user has no status.
This user has no status.
Member
Mar 2014
206
105
472
Der_Echte, thanks a milion for your help. I still have some questions, though. I think 2:22 -> 5:56 the most important part of the video.

2:31 He used a short/compact stroke. Correct one?
2:40, 2:50 seems to be a longer stroke? not good?
2:54 correct stroke?
2:59, 3:02 incorrect?
3:04 a jump flick. What did he say?
3:30 a serie of correct strokes?
3:38 he pointed somewhere in his bat. What did he say?
3:50 a little bit longer than his compact stroke, not sure correct or not?
3:55, 3:58 very long stroke. incorrect?
4:30 he lowered his upper body and the video caption said "key point", what is it? I guess these are the correct strokes?
4:45 he raised his upper body and did some flicks. Correct or not?
4:55 he demonstrated different strokes, 5:12 a very powerful one. What did he say? Which of them are correct?

That's all. I really can't thank you enough!!
 
This user has no status.
This user has no status.
Member
Oct 2014
89
12
102


On These links Ma Long and Zhang Jike flick with extanded Arm.

Is the compact stroke right too ?

Here is very good link,too.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Andy44
says 2023 Certified Organ Donor
says 2023 Certified Organ Donor
Well-Known Member
Sep 2011
12,821
13,210
30,388
Read 27 reviews
Der_Echte, thanks a milion for your help. I still have some questions, though. I think 2:22 -> 5:56 the most important part of the video.

2:31 He used a short/compact stroke. Correct one?
2:40, 2:50 seems to be a longer stroke? not good?
2:54 correct stroke?
2:59, 3:02 incorrect?
3:04 a jump flick. What did he say?
3:30 a serie of correct strokes?
3:38 he pointed somewhere in his bat. What did he say?
3:50 a little bit longer than his compact stroke, not sure correct or not?
3:55, 3:58 very long stroke. incorrect?
4:30 he lowered his upper body and the video caption said "key point", what is it? I guess these are the correct strokes?
4:45 he raised his upper body and did some flicks. Correct or not?
4:55 he demonstrated different strokes, 5:12 a very powerful one. What did he say? Which of them are correct?

That's all. I really can't thank you enough!!

These are excellent examples of a question(s) to ask to get a specific response instead of something general. Allow me a couple minutes to look at those. You are talking about the Fh flick vid, right?

Maybe I make a separate thread for that.
 
Top