System of tournaments in table tennis (World cup, Grand Slams, Opens)

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Hi everyone!
We have talked in thread about ZJK fine about bad system of tournaments in TT.
Sombody says there should be more "Grand slams", like in tennis and more World cups (one a year).
What do you think? Should we get inspiration from tennis or other sports (and which) to improve our competitons.

What about spactaculars, what about promoters, what about players? Who will like some changes?

Alex
 
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I feel the current ITTF Pro Tour (now called World Tour) is outdated and needs to be changed to something similar to Tennis, where the individual tournament has great weight + prize money.

Curently world tours is for ranking and for grand finals (which isn't that important and not really part of the 3 title grand slam - world champ, world cup + olympic)

We have noticed that many of the top world tours does not attract your best players. I see this as rotation of players and careful calcultation of world ranking point due to "inferior" opponents. So that is why you will see some tournament where CNT don't take part, then other top players will.....

The ranking also plays a huge role in olympic direct entry, as well as world champ/world cup seeding
Other than that, there is no purpose for world tours (other than limited prize money).

IMO, they should make 3 to 4 majors/masters a year and each have attractive price money
Even have a teams event every year too (to replace wtttc) and start off from continental teams championship to fight for your annual world team championship (not sure why they even bother to have wtttc and world team cup). The wtttc is also pointless - why you want a tournament to have 100 countries (teams) under 1 roof? While 90% of the focus is only on a few teams?

They can keep world champ every 2 years and olympic games.
So with an annual WTTTC or rename it to some "Team cup"
And have 3 to 4 grand slams a year.

Future grand slam holder is to win - all 3 to 4 grand slams + olympic + wttc

Grand finals can go too.

From TV audience and TT hype point of view, we can have 3-4 big events a year (your grand slams + olympic or WTTC) and these are proper big events - not like right now, our richest world tour has 0 live audience. How is that image for your non TT audienced to see on TV?
So ITTF must make big event with big meaning with big coverage/audience. And if it happens 4 to 5 times a year, maybe TT can be considered a serious sport and not just once every 4 years (olymipcs) for the general public.
 
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Yes, I agree with you! The system should be changed. What would too improve importance of TT in sport world is to raise prizemoneys. It just desperate, when you compare it with tennis prizemoneys... But of course it not simple :D
What would too help with public awareness is to make nice synoptical site with list of events and results. ITTF should make it better.
When I wanted to find list of results during WTTTC in Japan, I spent hours looking for it at ittf websites.
 
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I don't follow tennis, but when I was in Melbourne earlier this year, I saw the Australian Open
Guess where I found ALLLLLL the info? australian open website
I don't even know what the international tennis governing body name is or what is there website address

I think ITTF should loose some control and have all of these "majors" be responsibly for they own branding, marketing, TV contracts, sponsorship as well as website, ticket sales, updates etc etc
ITTF does not know how to do this properly - or atleast that has been the case the past few years

If each major is run correctly, these majors should provide enough money to fund a healthy prize money.

The purpose of ITTF should remain adminitrative on the true back end of table tennis, and all front end invovlement is development (in 3rd world countries) and running of the world cup/world champ.

I don't see FIFA or FIBA getting invovled with too many tournaments other than the "main" one.
Why is ITTF every where? Maybe because thats the only way for 1 company - TMS to get wealthy? Not try to make claims here or debate about it, but just comparing some successful sports to our mickey mouse table tennis
 
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I think the sport needs to work things in the right order to create a virtuous circle of growth. I am not sure that you can start by increasing prize money, I think bigger prize money comes in time as a result of marketing and growing the sport.

The thing I don't understand at the moment is that in the UK at least there is zero coverage of table tennis in the mainstream popular media. You will never find a Table Tennis match on the BBC or ITV and yet many minority sports now seem to get some regular coverage from Triathlon's to Skiing to Snooker and even to Darts ! You will never find an article in the sports pages of the main newspapers. I honestly think that the ITTF and the ETTA and other national associations should be addressing this as the number one priority. Get mass media coverage of one major event annually on mainstream channels around the world (not just in China/Asia). This does lots of things: it allows the sports dire image as a pastime for kids to be changed; it gets personalities exposed to attract interest; it attracts commercial sponsors from outside the game - sure Stiga, Butterly etc advertise at TT events but nobody outside the sport does like banks, retailers etc.(again except in Asia perhaps). You have to have a major shop window for the sport in the mass media even if it is only once a year like Wimbledon does for Tennis in the UK.

Make sure the event that gets mass exposure has great coverage - slow motion replays, ball tracking technology, overhead cameras, post match interviews, champagne winner celebrations, professional media faces (Gary Linekar means football, Sue Barker means Tennis, Bobby George means Darts, who means Table Tennis - nobody).

Other sports have made the journey and know how to operate to commercialise the sport: golf, tennis, etc. However I am not sure the ITTF and national associations have the ambition or know how.

For the Tournament structure I think you can look at other sports, a few distinctive major events in an annual world/regional tour(s). To use Golf as an example you have the two biggest events as Masters (closed invitational, fixed venue, green jacket), British Open (open to all by qualification, rotating venues, claret jug). Also sports trade greatly based upon having a long event history to draw upon - the 112th Open Championship etc. Then you can do a lot of promotion based around past champions, event history etc etc.
 
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I think the sport needs to work things in the right order to create a virtuous circle of growth. I am not sure that you can start by increasing prize money, I think bigger prize money comes in time as a result of marketing and growing the sport.

The thing I don't understand at the moment is that in the UK at least there is zero coverage of table tennis in the mainstream popular media. You will never find a Table Tennis match on the BBC or ITV and yet many minority sports now seem to get some regular coverage from Triathlon's to Skiing to Snooker and even to Darts ! You will never find an article in the sports pages of the main newspapers. I honestly think that the ITTF and the ETTA and other national associations should be addressing this as the number one priority. Get mass media coverage of one major event annually on mainstream channels around the world (not just in China/Asia). This does lots of things: it allows the sports dire image as a pastime for kids to be changed; it gets personalities exposed to attract interest; it attracts commercial sponsors from outside the game - sure Stiga, Butterly etc advertise at TT events but nobody outside the sport does like banks, retailers etc.(again except in Asia perhaps). You have to have a major shop window for the sport in the mass media even if it is only once a year like Wimbledon does for Tennis in the UK.

Make sure the event that gets mass exposure has great coverage - slow motion replays, ball tracking technology, overhead cameras, post match interviews, champagne winner celebrations, professional media faces (Gary Linekar means football, Sue Barker means Tennis, Bobby George means Darts, who means Table Tennis - nobody).

Other sports have made the journey and know how to operate to commercialise the sport: golf, tennis, etc. However I am not sure the ITTF and national associations have the ambition or know how.

For the Tournament structure I think you can look at other sports, a few distinctive major events in an annual world/regional tour(s). To use Golf as an example you have the two biggest events as Masters (closed invitational, fixed venue, green jacket), British Open (open to all by qualification, rotating venues, claret jug). Also sports trade greatly based upon having a long event history to draw upon - the 112th Open Championship etc. Then you can do a lot of promotion based around past champions, event history etc etc.
I didn't mean that table tennis have to increase prize money. I meant if there was bigger money in the sport, it would be more lucrative for public to start with,for television screens to broadcast and for people to watch it.
Silly example: Imagine some poker game from evening pub with low money and professional tournament with great great great money in. The level of game of each group could be almost same -but what is people going to watch in TV? What is TV going to broadcast?

I agree with you that promotion and advertisement is desperately nessesarry and should be first priority for ittf and national associations.
According me, first step could be to improve websites, which isn't so difficult, these days can small children do it well :D
Part of this work do ittf quite well, in terms of social network. Competions and events they're organising are good and great deal of people are taking part. But there is lack of a same effort in national associations. If I was informed, I would visit and take part in more matches, more events than now.
What I think could be great to manage is to set up several tables around city centre and make public tournament connected with exhibition of professional players and recruitment new players in clubs. It would be great, wouldn't it?

There are many suggestionsin this thread how to improve table tennis popularity.
Somebody from ittf should look at this here :D
 
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i dont think the ittf is to blame totally.nationa associations themselves are not interested in promoting the sport in their country.
For example,you will not get 1 word of table tennis in south africa,without searching,but for soccer,every turn you take there is advertising and promoting taking place.
 
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Yes, promotion is needed with access into the main public media channels. I look at the way that say athletics gets air time and media coverage in the UK and yet the numbers that participate are rather small. How many people in the UK do long jump, and yet far more of the British public could name a famous long jumper (Jonathan Edwards) than could name a famous Table Tennis player. I really, really wonder whether the ETTA and ITTF even bother to ask the BBC whether they would cover one major TT event in the year. If they say no, ask them why and then address the missing characteristics that put the broadcaster off. Does anyone ever try to get a top ten TT player onto the cover of major magazines?

Thinking about getting one world tournament covered some suggestions:

An attractive name eg The 53rd Table Tennis World Championships, Table Tennis World Masters
A distinctive trophy e.g. A replica of the first world champions bat made in say Titanium - 'The Titanium Blade'.
A logo and a good website
A purpose configured venue with some real atmosphere - not just one end of a cavernous sports arena
A history/back story for the event - First world champion in 1926 etc.
A major world figure to present the trophy.
Celebrity involvement - famous footballers, pop stars etc that play table tennis (how about a bunch of them sat in a VIP box watching the event)
Media access to the practice tables and for player interviews
Professional commentators
Lots of former champions watching and appearing in the media - maybe a champions dinner during the event
Possibly more games in a match - say 9 or 11 otherwise big matches can be over too quickly
A seating area for the players to use at timeouts and between games like in tennis
Advertise and promote like mad
 
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a good idea would be for say ITTF to build a dedicated table tennis arena,something similar to the WSA,but where the WTTC,WTTTC and world cup will take place every.here they can put the best possible camera systems that will transmit quality video feed that tv stations will feel happy to broadcast.
 
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a good idea would be for say ITTF to build a dedicated table tennis arena,something similar to the WSA,but where the WTTC,WTTTC and world cup will take place every.here they can put the best possible camera systems that will transmit quality video feed that tv stations will feel happy to broadcast.

I think this is not necessary

You do know your "super star concerts", with all the best cameras are not a fixed feature?
Even Rio 2014 soccer world cup cameras are not a fix feature.

Having good cameras or not is simply called "vision".
 
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i dont think the ittf is to blame totally.nationa associations themselves are not interested in promoting the sport in their country.
For example,you will not get 1 word of table tennis in south africa,without searching,but for soccer,every turn you take there is advertising and promoting taking place.

Being in South Africa myself and having a good knowledge of how TT works in many places, I think in South Africa to work - it has nothing to do with ITTF or the national body.

In USA, there is hardly any "marketing" done by the national body, but there are plenty of activities done by the individual clubs.
In USA, the club is much stronger than our national body in South Africa.
Our clubs here are just too weak.

Any ways, this is a bit off topic compared to OP.
Look at Tennis - I know nothing about Tennis in SA, but I do watch some grand slams or read about "international" news now and then.

The sport needs to be HUGE in the world as well. If it is huge in the world, it may not mean it is big is South Africa - but it sure will have grounds to become big - look at Basketball which went pro this year

How many clubs in South Africa has they own website? just a few have a facebook group/page that is never updated
How many clubs are in the news paper (regularly)?
How many clubs attract spectators? or rather how many members of the public know they live right next door to a club?

The fact is, there are many near zero cost marketing methods, and if all clubs (or min 100 in the country) make use of these marketing methods, then surely some promotion will occur.

Right now, you can be a table tennis player (like me), and not know of certain table tennis activities.
So if I don't know about it - how in the world would an average Joe know?
 
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You are right on track in your 4 big grand slam type events a year for Table Tennis. I like a lot of your ideas, and you are also correct that the Club system in the U.S. is growing stronger. In fact, the future in the U.S. lies in our Club owners and full-time club facilities that continue to sprout up here. USA Table Tennis has been unable to muster much of any progress over the decades(lack of strong business people), but the sport slowly continues to show progress here (not in the elite level of play, but in the infrastructure of clubs and tournaments that continue to grow.)

The sport here is ripe for growth and opportunity, but I believe it will take an outside entity separate from USATT that will need to make it happen. Our greatest teacher is Tennis. That is the closest reflection to Table Tennis out there, and they thrive with separate entities making their sport excel.

Business minded people are needed within our sport. There is no greater opportunity to grow the sport than in the U.S. The ITTF is a small crew and limited in their capabilities. New ideas, new business people, and new money will be needed for Table Tennis to take off to higher altitudes.
 
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You are right on track in your 4 big grand slam type events a year for Table Tennis. I like a lot of your ideas, and you are also correct that the Club system in the U.S. is growing stronger. In fact, the future in the U.S. lies in our Club owners and full-time club facilities that continue to sprout up here. USA Table Tennis has been unable to muster much of any progress over the decades(lack of strong business people), but the sport slowly continues to show progress here (not in the elite level of play, but in the infrastructure of clubs and tournaments that continue to grow.)

The sport here is ripe for growth and opportunity, but I believe it will take an outside entity separate from USATT that will need to make it happen. Our greatest teacher is Tennis. That is the closest reflection to Table Tennis out there, and they thrive with separate entities making their sport excel.

Business minded people are needed within our sport. There is no greater opportunity to grow the sport than in the U.S. The ITTF is a small crew and limited in their capabilities. New ideas, new business people, and new money will be needed for Table Tennis to take off to higher altitudes.

Thanks Champ :)

Thats why I said at MyTT few years ago - for TT to prosper in the world, we need America to make it happen. We can't rely on ITTF or any other country (including China)
Look at how Americans made basketall, baseball just to name a few. Americans have succesful business people than lots of countries and they way how NBA, MLB is run is already a clear direction.

I don't know how TT can become pro in America, but one thing I debated on FB is that the 80 or so full time clubs today is already building champions of the future. Some clubs - like ICC produce 3 of the 4 US olypmians for 2012. Many clubs have foreign professional becoming training partners and coaches. Zhang Jike's training partner is in USA for example!

Now imagine if these 80 full time clubs become 800 full time clubs.
Imagine the USATT 2600 14 year old player increase to 50 x 2600+ 14 years olds?
Your best 14 year old will then become 2700+, then we are talking.

I know this is possible because the club owners are treating this as a business model - with profit and loss and income and expense.
You need to have this cycle before you are able to improve table tennis as a whole.
BTW, marketing/promotion/PR leads to income of the club and indirectly it promotes table tennis to the wider public.

But yeah, we need a different world model.
Someone who is business minded and want to profit (shares) from this - by working hard, signing tv contracts/ marketing contractings and increasing viewership etc
I don't believe ITTF and TMS international are these people
 
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Well, in general I agree with most of whats written in here.
But I think - this is all about money.
This way this works, ITTF gets most of the money for them. If other things out from the ITTF would start, they wouldnt have so many money.
I often dream of winning a lottery and then opening a big big tournament, with big big prize money, well, that would bring players and maybe sponzors etc..
Also it would bring the media, because that would be something that never happened before. But that would have to be a big big win, lol :D
Seriously, to make this happen, something has to start.
Promoting the game is alfa and omega of the success I think.
Most of the people around me played table tennis at least once in their life. BUT thats it. They have no idea about whats going on in this sport.
They dont know we have like 9-10 leagues played, that many many people try to do their best..
Only people that actually play it .. no matter what level they are .. only they know whats going on.
And not even all of them.. It is sad for me.
But me personally .. I dont know what to do.
What can I change?
These are great ideas for people up in rankings or up in management, hopefully someone will get to it..
But guys - what can we do?

Do you think we can start something to change the world of table tennis ?
 
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Well, in general I agree with most of whats written in here.
But I think - this is all about money.
This way this works, ITTF gets most of the money for them. If other things out from the ITTF would start, they wouldnt have so many money.
I often dream of winning a lottery and then opening a big big tournament, with big big prize money, well, that would bring players and maybe sponzors etc..
Also it would bring the media, because that would be something that never happened before. But that would have to be a big big win, lol :D
Seriously, to make this happen, something has to start.
Promoting the game is alfa and omega of the success I think.
Most of the people around me played table tennis at least once in their life. BUT thats it. They have no idea about whats going on in this sport.
They dont know we have like 9-10 leagues played, that many many people try to do their best..
Only people that actually play it .. no matter what level they are .. only they know whats going on.
And not even all of them.. It is sad for me.
But me personally .. I dont know what to do.
What can I change?
These are great ideas for people up in rankings or up in management, hopefully someone will get to it..
But guys - what can we do?

Do you think we can start something to change the world of table tennis ?

In England I am trying to build the "Wimbledon" of Table Tennis called the Heritage Oil Cup. Last year it was broadcast on BT Sport. Sam Walker won the competition from being seeded no.13 in a field that included: Liam Pitchford, Adam Pattantyus, Jakub Kosowski, Niagol Stoyanov, Enio Mendes, Andrew Baggaley, Danny Reed, Thomas Le Breton, Chris Doran, Filip Szymanski, Ryan Jenkins, Darius Knight, Diogo Pinho, Peter Musko and many others. The tournament is building up year on year but I have to say it's up to the Table Tennis community to support these events if we are to influence the sports development.
 

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In England I am trying to build the "Wimbledon" of Table Tennis called the Heritage Oil Cup. Last year it was broadcast on BT Sport. Sam Walker won the competition from being seeded no.13 in a field that included: Liam Pitchford, Adam Pattantyus, Jakub Kosowski, Niagol Stoyanov, Enio Mendes, Andrew Baggaley, Danny Reed, Thomas Le Breton, Chris Doran, Filip Szymanski, Ryan Jenkins, Darius Knight, Diogo Pinho, Peter Musko and many others. The tournament is building up year on year but I have to say it's up to the Table Tennis community to support these events if we are to influence the sports development.

This looks cool, too bad I never heared about it.. :(
 
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Well, in general I agree with most of whats written in here.
But I think - this is all about money.
This way this works, ITTF gets most of the money for them. If other things out from the ITTF would start, they wouldnt have so many money.
I often dream of winning a lottery and then opening a big big tournament, with big big prize money, well, that would bring players and maybe sponzors etc..
Also it would bring the media, because that would be something that never happened before. But that would have to be a big big win, lol :D
Seriously, to make this happen, something has to start.
Promoting the game is alfa and omega of the success I think.
Most of the people around me played table tennis at least once in their life. BUT thats it. They have no idea about whats going on in this sport.
They dont know we have like 9-10 leagues played, that many many people try to do their best..
Only people that actually play it .. no matter what level they are .. only they know whats going on.
And not even all of them.. It is sad for me.
But me personally .. I dont know what to do.
What can I change?
These are great ideas for people up in rankings or up in management, hopefully someone will get to it..
But guys - what can we do?

Do you think we can start something to change the world of table tennis ?
Yes, that's the point: public approach to table tennis. When I say I am playing table tennis, lots of people laugh or ask something like: TT is sport? It can't be sport, it's something like chess,isnt it?
Naturally not exactly like this but with same meaning, I can feel kind of disrespect in their opinion about it.
If they had smallest awareness,about physical and mental demand, extremely trying training, difficulties with technique development and feel for spin they would talk differently.
And that is I think the most important thing to do - change people's bad opinion about TT.
Because when it is understanded as serious sport, more people would put their children in some clubs and it starts increasing.
In term of sport popularity,is maybe good that Zhang Jikes issue, cause it was in many newspapers and servers..
 
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Agree, that is a bad thing that so mnay people underestimate table tennis as a sport.
Yet we playing it know, its one of the most difficult sport to learn. If not the most difficult ever.
To combine all required in it is far from easy.
Maybe doing some amateur tournaments..
Or some charity tournaments, some celebrities included .. that would bring some attention.
Soon it is christmas time, time to do stuff!
 
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