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    1. Top | #21
      passifid is offline
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      Advanced TTD Member Country: England

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      i don't understand.
      why is agold wrong he did what was right for him?

      i mean should we not give advice the worked and was true for us when asked because someone else had a different experience?

      sorry if i was wrong i know i'm not an expert i just tried to give the advice that worked for me to another new player who asked the question.

      If it was wrong then it would be i thought a better idea to, as the person who is more experienced, better, and definitely a better advice giver in this respect give a suitable answer to the question.

      I think i get what you're saying. Get coaching and buy anything you want because with dedication you'll be able to do it, and i get you're also right because well. superior experience and all. and that is true as far as i am concerned because you do know better. however if i am wrong because to be honest i found what you wrote to be a little ambiguous then i apologise.

    2. Top | #22
      TareqPhoto is offline
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      Senior TTD Member Country: United Arab Emirates

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      Now i don't know what is that 2 posts are about, arguing about my question or posts or something else related to my thread?

      In all cases, everyone has the right or recommend whatever, and we are also have the right to go with one or another, sometimes if i follow or go with one recommendation some will think i offend them or they think their recommendations were wrong, well, i can't follow all correct recommendations and i must go with one after all.

      Anyway, almost i have idea about blades and rubbers now, so i have to think wisely and see what i should go with, and also i can try some rackets i can use even not buying in club or university or wherever then i can decide later, for now i just keep reading and replying others who answer me.

    3. Top | #23
      UpSideDownCarl is online now
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      AGold is right. He has focused on working with a great coach.

      Al the blades on that list would be fine. They are just way expensive.

      If you are set on Butterfly, the two blades they make that would probably be best in my opinion would be the Butterfly Primorac Off-, or the Butterfly Petr Korbel which is a lot like the Primorac except the wood plies in the center are slightly thicker so it is faster. Korbel is a good Off rated blade for learning. Also either of those would save you a decent amount of cash. The reason I like these more than the Timo Boll All+ and Off- is the top ply is softer and has better dwell time to create more spin. But the Timo Boll blades would be good too. So in the end I would get the least expensive one.

      But, what I really would get is the Der_Echte special: Yinhe Galaxy 896 blade (it is Chinese so you probably don't want it, it is only $16.00, so you might be scared it isn't any good, but it is). It is about as good as the TB All+ and Off- and about as good as the Primorac and Korbel for about 1/3 the price.

      And then you can put any rubbers you want in that. If it is truly the Der_Echte special you would get Dawei Super Power XP2008 ($8.00 Chinese rubber) for the backhand. I know that sounds like it wouldn't be good either. It is not special. It is a good control rubber which is really all the backhand needs. And Tibhar Aurus for the FH. That is a $50.00 German rubber that plays pretty well. Grand total in price $74.00 USD and then you could spend the money you saved on good coaching. Because that blade would be good enough to use till you get to the semi pro level.

      And and if you got Der_Echte to do his famous modification where he adds 10-15 grams of weight to the handle turning the blade into an Off speed blade, then you could use it until you decided you wanted to try something else. But you wouldn't outgrow it.

      In the end, Butterfly makes great stuff so if that is what you want, there are tons of good bats from Butterfly. In truth, every bat on your original list is good. But, in my book, they are too expensive and not worth the price because there are other blades out there that are as good and less expensive.

      But the Primorac, the Korbel, TB All+ or Off- are all good blades too.

      But truthfully, TTTony gave you good solid info and you and it seemed you sort of snubbed him.


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    4. Top | #24
      UpSideDownCarl is online now
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      And I do think you trying as many blades as you can is a good idea. With that you are heading in the right direction to make a good decision for yourself.

      Without seeing you play, we don't really know much. But there is plenty of good equipment that will work. You can find things that will work that are super cheap, pretty expensive or somewhere in the middle.


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    6. Top | #25
      TareqPhoto is offline
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      Senior TTD Member Country: United Arab Emirates

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      Noted, thanks a lot!!!

    7. Top | #26
      UpSideDownCarl is online now
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      Help choosing a custom racket

      And if you really want one of those expensive, high end blades that you could use now and it would be good and you could use it all the way to top pro level and it would still be good:

      Innerforce ZLF. (Not ALC but ZLF).

      That one is a gem that is high dwell, tons of control and spin but all the speed anyone can need. In my opinion that is the best blade Butterfly makes.


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      Last edited by UpSideDownCarl; 01-24-2015 at 07:32 PM.

    8. Top | #27
      TareqPhoto is offline
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      Senior TTD Member Country: United Arab Emirates

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      Quote Originally Posted by UpSideDownCarl View Post
      And if you really want one of those expensive, high end blades that you could use now and it would be good and you could use it all the way to top pro level and it would still be good:

      Innerforce ZLF. (Not ALC but ZLF).

      That one is a gem that is high dwell, tons of control and spin but all the speed anyone can need. In my opinion that is the best blade Butterfly makes.
      Ok, and i did ask one site the question about to start with a custom racket, and their suggestions or answer by email was:

      "Dear Tareq,We recommend Zhang Jike ALC, which is quite good for you to start. We would also recommend you to Chinese rubber on your fore hand, and tenergy for your backhand. It is a quite good combination.
      Hope this help!

      Best regards,
      BTTES Team
      "

      So even they have their own recommendations, and they didn't tell me it is very fast or expensive or whatever, so why they recommend it for me to start if it is not good for start anyway?

      Well, as long i started to ask the questions in many sites i don't get any straight forward, but sounds i was wrong to talk about my test with a coach, maybe i am a fast attacker player but i never showed that when i tested with the coach, in fact i stopped to continue as i wasn't comfortable at all to test, so maybe i misled you or others by saying the coach advised me to go slower.

      I really like Butterfly blades design, and they are expensive is not a big deal once i have enough budget, i bought very expensive cameras as well and many told me they are overkill or too much when there are equivalent can do the same or good enough much less price or cheaper, not better, so i will follow the same path and go with quality brand name, and we have Butterfly supplier in my area, and i may not depend on buying from the net all the time, but who knows, i have 1-2 months to buy something or decide on something.
      Last edited by TareqPhoto; 01-24-2015 at 07:43 PM.

    9. Top | #28
      UpSideDownCarl is online now
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      Yep. You will get a lot of answers.

      ZJK ALC is very similar to Viscaria which ZJK actually uses. And which Abe Gold (14) uses. It can be used. It might be fine for you. It is not what I like. But it may work for you. If you were thinking of that, you should try Viscaria also and see which one you want.

      I personally think H3 is a fine rubber to start with. It has a lot of control. Tenergy may be harder to handle but might not and may be fine.

      Whe you try a bunch of blades, you will know what feels best to you. After that you will be able to make more informed decisions for yourself.


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    10. Top | #29
      TareqPhoto is offline
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      Senior TTD Member Country: United Arab Emirates

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      Sure, so will go with this email answer, the blade looks good and who knows if i will get used to it but i will know, and i will go with those rubbers, actually i was about 100% sure about using Tenergy 05 on BH only, but wasn't sure about FH, but sounds i should go with better control rubber for my FH so it will balance my blade somehow, and after some uses i can come to a conclusion or review/impression of what i have used.

    11. Top | #30
      UpSideDownCarl is online now
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      Help choosing a custom racket

      T05 can be used for BH. I prefer T05FX and also T64. 05FX and 64 are both softer than 05 which means, for the smaller stroke of the BH you can get the ball to sink in more fully and get more power and spin.

      But there are plenty of guys who use T05 on BH. So it works.

      But I would try a bunch of blades before you settle on one. There will be setups that you like immediately. That experience will help you choose.

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      Last edited by UpSideDownCarl; 01-24-2015 at 08:09 PM.

    12. Top | #31
      TareqPhoto is offline
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      Senior TTD Member Country: United Arab Emirates

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      Well, there are 2 options, either i have almost limited to edge budget say around $200-300 then i will only have 1 racket of that above recommendations, or i have good enough budget so i can buy 2 rackets, and with second racket i will try Tenergy 64 or T05FX, but i am sure the first racket will tell me if that BH rubber is all i need and great or not, but if it works fine for me then no need to change it for second racket?

      By the way, when i played a test with the coach he gave me a racket that has T05 on both sides, i am not sure if that was true as i didn't check and look at the rubber writings and marks, and he asked me to use the red side for FH and black rubber for BH, i was always playing with black rubber for FH and red for BH, and maybe my mistakes was because the rubber wasn't good for my FH, it was slow for me in BH and slightly fast in FH, so maybe it is good for BH after all if i give it more push or harder hit, and the blade maybe wasn't good as well to use for me with those rubbers, there are many factors and i didn't mentioned them much and just straight forward question, but i really think once i buy that one then i will play my best to match it and control it.

    13. Top | #32
      Der_Echte is offline
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      At heart, I guess I really am a pundit, but I realize to possible range of equipment is much wider than that of the fundamentalist pundit and "OFF is too fast" is a blind dictum of a narrow fundamentalist pundit. That is my contention with that crowd and that crowd usually says what agold uses is wrong and bad and whatever and I used agold as an example that the pundits' fundamental thinking is correct (get something that will allow you to do everything while you learn) while it violates the daylights outta the fundamental crowd. That is what cracks me up. Otherwise, I am square near the fundamental crowd and I hope pundits or otherwise speak about what is true to them. Advice a fundamental pundit gives is almost always founded on tried and true principles that work, backed by decades of practical experience and damn the fool who will argue against the good sense of the recommendation of a fundamental pundit (something in ALL+ wood range and control rubbers) I just say the band is much more wide and diss the ones who say it is restricted to that.

      So coincidental that the recommendation you got in email is essential what agold has used to jump 6 levels in just over a year.

      Personally, I wouldn't use H3 on FH, unless it was a very humid venue with moisture on everyone's bat, but that is just me and not representative of what possible rubbers someone could use. H3 is decent resistant to humidity moisture build-up. However, that is just me, I realize it can work for the player who likes that kind of rubber for FH and has an attacking stroke to use it. I would not say it is too fast or dead or this or that for a player, since there are players who can successfully use that rubber.

      As much a flashy BH shot I got vs underspin and in bang bang BH exchanges close to the table, you'd think I would praise an expensive modern rubber, I value a control rubber (and so do pundits) and I generate my own pace or spin there (and so do pundits recommend) and the rubber I mostly use on BH wing is inexpensive as dirt from a great vendor (Colestt in USA) and it works great for me. Korean coaches seemed to not like that rubber and many of the ones who tried it went back to expensive rubbers. My BH impact is different then many others, and many of those coach says (correctly) to use a softer BH rubber. (but a really fast OFF+ blade) (Pundits would have a field day with Korean coaches at local clubs) (Basic bat coaches have new players buy is OFF+ carbon blade with 1st Gen tensor rubbers)
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    15. Top | #33
      TareqPhoto is offline
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      Looking at their emails again, they just said "Chinese" rubber for FH and Tenergy for BH, they didn't mention the models or numbers, i did reply them asking about DHS H3 as Chinese rubbers and they replied as this:

      "Dear Tareq,

      Yes, it is great!!! Personally, T05 used in backhand is a little heavier than T64, but it depends on which one you like. DHS, we would suggest DHS NEO H3 Provincial Version.


      Hope this help!!


      Best regards,
      BTTES Team
      "

      So, if i didn't ask them about DHS, then what Chinese rubber they recommend or suggest me to go with?

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    17. Top | #34
      UpSideDownCarl is online now
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      Help choosing a custom racket

      I personally think H3 is actually fine for beginners. It is an interesting rubber. If you don't know how to use it right it is slow as a turtle. If you do, it is fast and spinny. But it is not reactive to spin.

      Being honest, whoever told you to get the ZJK ALC with Chinese rubber for forehand and Tenergy for backhand is probably just copying what a lot of Chinese pros do as a setup except the Chinese pros use Viscaria and I don't really know any pro using the ZJK ALC including ZJK. ZJK uses Viscaria. But most Chinese pros use H3 or TG3 on FH (TG3 = Skyline 3) and some form of Tenergy on BH. ZJK uses 64 and has also used 05FX. Yan An uses 05FX on BH.

      But Haifu Blue Whale II is another Chinese rubber that is awesome for FH.

      Let me see how to figure out how to say this. That setup may be fine for you. In fact it may be great for you. But you should try something similar before you buy it.

      I was playing for a while before I realized that the setups that felt best to me were not always good for my playing matches or developing technique and getting better. Back then, the stuff that felt best to me was too fast and high tech. When your technique is starting out and you use a really fast blade with fast rubber, it feels amazing, especially when you are rallying with someone who is hitting to you in a way so you can get it back over and over.

      Now I was using this fast carbon blade and someone handed me a slower blade with tamer rubbers. I had just played a match, and the guy who handed me the racket was a friend who was much better than me. He wanted me to hit with it for long enough to get used to the racket and then to play another match with the same guy I had just lost to. The guy I just lost to was slightly better than me. So I did what my friend asked. After about ten min of getting used to the new racket, I played a match with the same guy. I still lost but this match was closer and I knew I had played way better. Particularly I played better on the first three balls. But I also played better in the rallies, in part because this racket made me have to swing a little harder. So my strokes were better. My friend told me to keep the racket and try it for a month.

      Now that racket, I did not like how it felt at first. It felt slower. It felt soft. It felt less crisp. It felt like I had to swing harder to get the ball moving on my attacks. So I sort of did not want to use the racket but I got the point in what my friend had previously told me and then decided he should show me rather than explaining. After a month of using it that racket felt great to me and the old one felt to fast, to hard, and I could feel it had so much less dwell time. It actually felt horrible to me. It still does. I actually hit with it for 10 min today. I do not like that blade.

      Anyway, after a month of using the blade my friend gave me I really got it, liked the blade and stuck with that blade for well over a year. It was a Butterfly Primorac Off-. That blade helped my technique get better.

      So you really can use what you want. But the stuff that feels really good when you are just hitting with it and don't have a great amount of experience playing against club and tournament level players, isn't always what is best for your game.


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      Last edited by UpSideDownCarl; 01-24-2015 at 10:57 PM.

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    19. Top | #35
      BeGo is offline
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      Senior TTD Member Country: Indonesia

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      Quote Originally Posted by TareqPhoto View Post
      Looking at their emails again, they just said "Chinese" rubber for FH and Tenergy for BH, they didn't mention the models or numbers, i did reply them asking about DHS H3 as Chinese rubbers and they replied as this:

      "Dear Tareq,

      Yes, it is great!!! Personally, T05 used in backhand is a little heavier than T64, but it depends on which one you like. DHS, we would suggest DHS NEO H3 Provincial Version.


      Hope this help!!


      Best regards,
      BTTES Team
      "

      So, if i didn't ask them about DHS, then what Chinese rubber they recommend or suggest me to go with?
      You could politely ask them again, what Chinese rubber they want you to recommend. Something along the alternative for DHS.

      For me, among Chinese rubber,

      DHS is the premium,

      Palio and Galaxy / Yin He (and Kokutaku / Tuple) is Cost Wise,

      Dawei is around the middle.

      and 729 / RITC / Friendship is ubiquitous.

      Should agree with Der Echte here, while years of experiences create a knowledge base and somehow became a law (like, beginner must use slow combi!)

      In the end, nothing beats the feel at hand.

      Your skill shall grow along your confidence,

      Whether to follow that knowledge base, or

      Whether to prove that the old knowledge already obsolete. ;P
      Last edited by BeGo; 01-24-2015 at 11:00 PM.

    20. Top | #36
      aznalanx32 is offline
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      I feel like the Butterfly Interforce ZLF is the wonderful option of you, and me. I considered to switch to it from my Infinity but I was too expensive for me. I awkwardly like it.
      Look at the reviews here: https://www.megaspin.net/store/defau...innerforce-zlf

    21. Top | #37
      neklvlmooster is offline
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      Everyone adapt to different playing style. From my experience i recommend Butterfly Viscaria for blade. It has good control and it is very fast due to its arylate carbon. For rubber i would recommend tenergy 80 on your BH since you said you are good at BH and hurricane 3 neo for FH.

    22. Top | #38
      Rajah* is offline
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      Hello Tareq welcome to ttd 😊
      Based on comments above by our fellow members in this forum i think they already gave you enough info regarding blade set up. Now its up to you. The only thing i would like to add is that find time to have lessons with a coach, it is very impt since you stopped playing for a long time.

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      Last edited by Rajah*; 01-25-2015 at 11:24 AM.

    23. Top | #39
      TareqPhoto is offline
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      Senior TTD Member Country: United Arab Emirates

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      Thank you very much all

      Well, now as you said is up to me, i will wait the budget and go with whatever i can get.

      The is one problem, from another site, someone gave me a link to an online store that sell a lot of items including TT equipment, but to my surprise, they sell those rackets either custom or ready assembled at very very low prices even for those big brands or high quality and expensive ones, so is that mean they are all fake? some sellers stated they are not genuine, but others didn't mention that, so should i go with that or maybe the quality of those rackets/blades/rubbers are not any match/close to the original ones?

      Really, the prices i've seen can allow me to buy 3-4 Butterfly rackets even i am not sure about the quality, some customers compared to the originals and they said it is either slower than original or worse quality or not much different than the original, so i can't decide yet, i can risk and buy 1 or 2 as long they already at very low prices nearly prices of those Chinese rackets of cheaper ones.

    24. Top | #40
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      my advice-dont buy fake.its not worth it.the quality is poor.

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