Back to Forum
Results 1 to 15 of 15
  1. Topspinner is offline
    This user has no status.
     
    Established TTD Member 12 112
    T
    Topspinner is offline
    This user has no status.
     
    Established TTD Member 112 12

    User Info Menu

    #1

    Tactics against players with an anti topspin rubber

    Sometimes I encounter an opponent with a strong forehand and with anti on the bh side and be able of turning the
    bat all the time.

    Because I have to play them occasionally I make alot of mistakes (pushes too high/net, hitting over the table/net, etc.)

    What are the best tactics to beat them?
    Last edited by Topspinner; 01-31-2015 at 03:50 PM.

  2. cakezxc280 is offline
    This user has no status.
     
    Advanced TTD Member 94 235
    cakezxc280's Avatar
    cakezxc280 is offline
    This user has no status.
     
    Advanced TTD Member 235 94
    #2
    Theoretically its best to do a really spinny brush loop, so when the anti returns it will ideally be over the net, then you flat hit the next ball.
    It worked for me at least.
    But i have seen one of my friend did this full push game with each rally lasting at least 30 seconds. Agonizing to watch yes, but effective nonetheless.
    University of Nottingham TTC <3
    Training 6 days a week and playing matches for that last because I can

  3. Der_Echte is offline
    says Grand Consultant to the Office of the Goon Squad
     
    Master TTD Member 10,990 10,745
    Der_Echte's Avatar
    Der_Echte is offline
    says Grand Consultant to the Office of the Goon Squad
     
    Master TTD Member 10,745 10,990

    User Info Menu

    #3
    The ones who flip the bat are TWIDDLING and a good player who can twiddle and use inverted to punish your weak ball you intended for the anti can be a nightmare for you.

    The best defense is a good offense.

    There is no ONE thing I can say, because I do not see this opponent of yours.

    However, there are a few things that may work. You will need to be consistent and solid enough to make them work, or they will fail with errors.

    As Cake sez, I really like the idea of spinning the ball. Especially deep. Everyone has problems with that. To do this, you have to be able to get an underspin long. You will need to see long serves and spin them OR... you gotta give an underspin ball to get one.

    What if he twiddles and loops the underspin you gave him? Block it wide and stay in the point look to counter attack.

    Why did he attack your push? He saw it coming. Be quicker and faster. Push off the bounce right at him DEEP right near endline. It takes a good level to do that with quality and consistency, but that is the ball you need to give him to setup your offense. Push deep and fast and watch him just bump it back... then you get to go ballistic on attack with spin then slap it.

    Another thing you can do is to vary the underspin you give him and allow him to attack, often it will be long and out when you pull the carpet out from under him and take off the underspin while still making it look heavy. Give him some really heavy balls to establish your underspin as heavy, then start giving him near-float balls. Watch his consistency go down the tubes !

    Another idea to do is to make him MOVE. Do your underspin return, but at last moment, open or close the wrist and send the ball wide, like to his wide FH, even if he successfully attacks it, he had to move and he likely wont get back in time, so block it to his now wide open BH corner... if he gets that back, the shot will be weak, crush that weak ball for a winner and smirk Ur way to the scoreboard.

    If you have the control, then giving him short return, and occasionally a BARELY long (thee are called half-long) this will cause him to be uncertain and hesitate to attack, likely giving you a change to attack and he is already in Oh-Shyt mode making it better chance to win the point.

    You could also try to hit some balls faster than he wants right at his crossover, that messes up a lot of players, but some players are really strong blocking a ball to their crossover, so you gotta learn who he is.

    The Following User Likes Der_Echte's Post:

    Suga D

    President, Korea Foreign Table Tennis Club. Hit us up on TTD or Facebook
    http://www.facebook.com/koreaforeignttc

    Janitor at NexyUSA TT Equipment Shop
    http://www.nexyusa.com

    View our Lame Nexy USA corporate FB page
    http://www.facebook.com/nexyusa

  4. NextLevel is online now
    This user has no status.
     
    Master TTD Member 13,448 9,129
    N
    NextLevel is online now
    This user has no status.
     
    Master TTD Member 9,129 13,448

    User Info Menu

    #4
    Practice and play against Anti and learn to read the ball better. Usually, generating topspin is always your friend as it produces a higher ball for you to attack. But if you don't practice against it, the theory is good, but doesn't help you get better.

    The Following User Likes NextLevel's Post:

    Suga D

    Cobra Kai TT Exponent - No mercy in this dojo, no matter your rating or the score. All spin, no power or footwork.

    "We don't rise to the level of our expectations, we fall to the level of our training" - Archilochus

  5. BeGo is offline
    This user has no status.
     
    Senior TTD Member 339 528
    B
    BeGo is offline
    This user has no status.
     
    Senior TTD Member 528 339
    #5
    Learn table length mixes (e.g. short, long, short, short, long, long, long, short, etc) with quite a same gesture against random speed and spin and placement multi ball.

    If you can return the ball with different speed regardless of opponent strokes, that sure shall shake him.

  6. raazzz is offline
    This user has no status.
     
    Elite TTD Member 382 1,043
    raazzz's Avatar
    raazzz is offline
    This user has no status.
     
    Elite TTD Member 1,043 382
    #6
    I like to start with serving long ball in the opponents anti, so I know that I get a long easy ball to attack on. I often try to get the first attack in the middle and it's also very important to vary the spin and speed.

    The Following 2 Users Like raazzz's Post:

    BeGo and Suga D


  7. anchorschmidt is offline
    This user has no status.
     
    Senior TTD Member 695 649
    A
    anchorschmidt is offline
    This user has no status.
     
    Senior TTD Member 649 695

    User Info Menu

    #7
    A Bizirksklasse 1. player told me this tactic. Whenever you loop, try to loop the ball higher over the net and with more spin. It's a lot more difficult to block these balls. Placement and spin are more important than raw speed/power

    The Following User Likes anchorschmidt's Post:

    Suga D


  8. Pnachtwey is offline
    This user has no status.
     
    This user has been banned. 134 367
    P
    Pnachtwey is offline
    This user has no status.
     
    This user has been banned. 367 134

    User Info Menu


    Nov 2010
    367
    134
    735
    Read 0 Reviews
    #8
    It is important to know what anti you are playing against and its characteristics. Some new German antis are as slick as LPs or slicker. Expect extreme spin reversal from these antis. Chinese antis are dead but have more friction. These antis are slow and have a little friction but no enough to be effective at looping. The Japanese antis are in-between. My favorite is Super Anti. The spin reversal is not that great but it will cause the attacker some problems. It is possible to attack with Yasaka Anti Power.

    As mentioned above I would serve to the anti long and fast in hopes of getting a ball to attack. However, I would also try serving to the anti player's FH just in case the anti player got the anti just to return serves. The anti player may not be good at returning serves with normal inverted.
    Keep the ball deep to keep the anti player from returning the ball at sharp angles.
    Varying spin will help but a good anti player will be able to compensate but do it anyway hoping for a mistake. When I play with anti I watch the opponents stroke. If he makes a spinny loop I know I must either close my paddle or make a sharp down ward stroke during contact so the relative difference in the tangential speed of the ball and rubber is not great. This keeps the ball from bouncing high. It also maximizes the back spin to the opponent.
    Don't try to out last an anti player that can twiddle and stay alert. A strong loop into the anti player's BH but normal inverted will come back quickly with top spin instead of back spin. I get a lot of points that way with either anti or LP because the returned balls often go long or high.
    If the anti player does twiddle try to hit the next ball to his FH. You may catch him with the anti on his FH.
    Anti players try to keep the game slower until they can attack. You should be able to hit the ball at a quicker pace using top spin to keep the anti player off balance.

    I have played with 2 Chinese and 3 Japanese antis but it has been 2 years.

    The Following User Likes Pnachtwey's Post:

    BeGo


  9. Topspinner is offline
    This user has no status.
     
    Established TTD Member 12 112
    T
    Topspinner is offline
    This user has no status.
     
    Established TTD Member 112 12

    User Info Menu

    #9
    Thx. I shall use your advice the next time I have to play an anti player.

    Do u also have to hit different when the players returns my topspin with his anti? The previous time the ball landed often in the net after hitting a high ball.

  10. NextLevel is online now
    This user has no status.
     
    Master TTD Member 13,448 9,129
    N
    NextLevel is online now
    This user has no status.
     
    Master TTD Member 9,129 13,448

    User Info Menu

    #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Topspinner
    Thx. I shall use your advice the next time I have to play an anti player.

    Do u also have to hit different when the players returns my topspin with his anti? The previous time the ball landed often in the net after hitting a high ball.
    Yes, the anti will either kill the spin or let the spin pass through so you either have a backspin ball or a no-spin ball. You have to figure out which according to your stroke and fix appropriately. Either ball will go into the net if you use a closed paddle like you are looping regular/heavy topspin.
    Cobra Kai TT Exponent - No mercy in this dojo, no matter your rating or the score. All spin, no power or footwork.

    "We don't rise to the level of our expectations, we fall to the level of our training" - Archilochus

  11. Emjay is offline
    This user has no status.
     
    TTD Member 2 17
    Emjay's Avatar
    Emjay is offline
    This user has no status.
     
    TTD Member 17 2
    #11
    Mixing up the serves some short to the smooth and then long into the anti. From there I recommend experimenting with the opponent initially. So try opening up with slow spin loops into the antispin and see what happens, is their return easy for you to keep looping? If so great keep playing really safe loops (slow/spinny) there until you get a higher ball and can do a faster/stronger attack into the body or wide forehand.

    Then try opening up into their forehand or body, do they come over the top with a big counter loop? If so then maybe try to keep them pinned on the backhand, even if they twiddle all they can probably do is block so just be prepared that may happen. It's actually probably better to attack into their forehand and body than their anti because anti is supposed to be safe against aggression, so this will probably work best.

    Whatever you do, try to avoid pushing as much as possible. This is exactly what that kind of player is hoping for and antispin is often not returning much spin so trying to push after they hit with their anti will often result in a high loose ball that is easy to attack.

    If you can get them back off the table chopping then going to their crossover (middle) is often a great idea because it makes them move and therefore less comfortable making their chop.

    Hope that helps

    The Following User Likes Emjay's Post:

    Suga D

    Helping table tennis enthusiasts become better players and enjoy the sport they love by providing table tennis holidays.

  12. Topspinner is offline
    This user has no status.
     
    Established TTD Member 12 112
    T
    Topspinner is offline
    This user has no status.
     
    Established TTD Member 112 12

    User Info Menu

    #12
    So in summary the following will help against a twiddeling anti player with a strong fh:

    1) Long serves into the anti
    2) Slow loops
    3) no pushing

    If I'm missing something please add nr 4),5),etc...
    Last edited by Topspinner; 02-04-2015 at 10:00 PM.

  13. NextLevel is online now
    This user has no status.
     
    Master TTD Member 13,448 9,129
    N
    NextLevel is online now
    This user has no status.
     
    Master TTD Member 9,129 13,448

    User Info Menu

    #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Topspinner
    So in summary the following will help against an anti player with a strong fh:

    1) Long serves into the anti
    2) Slow loops
    3) no pushing

    I hope I understand correct.
    Not necessarily true. The way to think about it is that you need to get used to playing anti. Usually, I like to think of players who do not use inverted or spinny short pips on their backhand as coming in "levels". I have about 3 levels, and the truth is that as you get better, a player at one level to you may become lower or higher, depending on whether the player has more tricks he has not used because you failed to handle the lower level initially, or whether the player cannot handle your spin. There is also overlap of strategies.

    Level 1 anti players use anti to cover up the fact they have no real backhand strokes or feel. Usually, against those, a long serve into the anti, usually no spin, but can be any spin as long as you can read or track the return, followed by an attack on the return is usually sufficient. These players are just using the anti because they know many players cannot hit a ball that isn't topspin so they live off that. Some of them rely on the anti too much, even using it on the forehand side to return serves, if they don't have strokes on other parts of the table. But if you can attack the short and the long ball, then serve long no-spin to these players. If you can find these players, it is best to use these players to learn to play against anti initially because more advanced players have tricks that can cause you to be confused when they attack.

    Level 2 anti players will be more consistent with defense (blocks and chops), and can be very consistent with all their shots. They can even return no spin serves consistently even if not in a way that cannot be attacked. Some of them will attack, but not consistently with their anti. This inconsistent attack means that even though you can be fairly secure in sending most of your weak balls to their anti, including pushes, as long as you can read the ball and push appropriately. Do not push underneath the no-spin ball - that is what leads to the popups. But if you play level 1 anti players, you will get a better idea of what is possible because most of them will push with the anti and only attack with the inverted.

    Level 3 anti players are very tricky. They use the anti mostly to block short or chop, and can attack with it against players below their level, or against weak balls vs. all levels. They will hit short serves confidently and can even block long serves short with double bounce (same for weak loops). Some will even attack strong balls with it though these are extremely rare and exceptional - most good players will block short and chop with hits only vs. slow balls. Some will twiddle and have tricks with the anti to fool you. These are extremely tough to play and relative to your level, this is not a good player to learn to play anti against because you are probably just losing to a better player. You want a player that will at least let you get into the rally.

    The Following User Likes NextLevel's Post:

    Sir Loops-a-lot

    Cobra Kai TT Exponent - No mercy in this dojo, no matter your rating or the score. All spin, no power or footwork.

    "We don't rise to the level of our expectations, we fall to the level of our training" - Archilochus

  14. Der_Echte is offline
    says Grand Consultant to the Office of the Goon Squad
     
    Master TTD Member 10,990 10,745
    Der_Echte's Avatar
    Der_Echte is offline
    says Grand Consultant to the Office of the Goon Squad
     
    Master TTD Member 10,745 10,990

    User Info Menu

    #14
    I can see where Next Level gets his thinking from is saying the 1-2-3 rules are not always true and I gotta agree. There isn't and hard rules. You have to learn for yourself who the anti player can and cannot do and discover what you have to do to setup your offense (if you are in the majority offensive player group).

    I see where Emjay is saying to avoid pushing, you often, if you try to topspin everything, especially balls you are not sure about, you will either make too many errors, or will give opponent low quality balls to initiate his own attack. Wily Anti players love a non-elite player who simply tries to loop everything, that plays right into their hands. A fast push deep to an uncomfortable location can be a very good setup for your offense and shouldn't be arbitrarily discarded as an option or even primary tactic.

    I think what Emjay's argument is about is that you don't want to get into a push to push rally with an anti player. He will keep it on the table a lot longer than you, his shots are safe, and you are not reading the spin so well, so you either make errors after a few pushes, or you do not see the no-spin or light spin push and pop the ball up for an easy kill. I agree that you will not want to get into a push to push rally unless you absolutely are good at reading spin and are just being really patient because you are not under pressure. Usually, the Anti player is right at home in pushing forever, so I would advise against getting into those kind of rallie.

    I advocate the use of a push to use as way to get a ball you want to initiate your offense. Secondary use is to stay in rally with the aim to re-take the initiative. Pushes that land very deep on endline in an uncomfortable spot are excellent balls that will setup chances for you time and time again, unless you telegraph it all and then the Anti dude attacks and you are suddenly shyttin' bricks and now have no idea what to do to setup your offense. An Anti player who can see what you are doing and attack decisively at will is a tough opponent to face and you have to make very good quality connecting shots and attacking shots to win points.
    President, Korea Foreign Table Tennis Club. Hit us up on TTD or Facebook
    http://www.facebook.com/koreaforeignttc

    Janitor at NexyUSA TT Equipment Shop
    http://www.nexyusa.com

    View our Lame Nexy USA corporate FB page
    http://www.facebook.com/nexyusa

  15. Emjay is offline
    This user has no status.
     
    TTD Member 2 17
    Emjay's Avatar
    Emjay is offline
    This user has no status.
     
    TTD Member 17 2
    #15
    The key point in my message was to test things out against that kind of player. For example: see what happens if you keep looping to the anti. Is it easy? Can I win points this way or do I make lots of mistakes? If you make lots of mistakes and find it difficult to continue looping then try pushing after you loop the first. What happens now? Do you get a weak ball you can attack again or does the opponent attack well? Then try doing loops with lots of spin to the forehand, does he block or counterloop well with the smooth side or does he miss a lot? You can try other things too like faster loops into the body. The key is to try stuff out because these players tend to have weaknesses, they are generally not as well balanced as traditional aggressive players. If you play the game they want then it's very difficult but if you can make them play a a game that you're comfortable with and they are not then it can be easy. Don't worry if you lose the first set or even two because once you figure them out you should be able to keep winning.

    I just said don't push too much because in my experience anti doesn't generate much spin and is hard to read so I find it difficult to push well and often make mistakes or give loose balls that are easy to attack. However because it doesn't generate much spin I find it very easy to just keep on looping until they are back off the table and then I can play a fast ball into wide forehand or body. That has worked for me in the past but it probably wouldn't work against all anti players and it may not work for you. So just try stuff out and see what works for you against each specific player.
    Helping table tennis enthusiasts become better players and enjoy the sport they love by providing table tennis holidays.

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Create a new Topic:
Title is required.