Hello from Wiesbaden, Germany!

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It is intetesting that coaching for adults is so hard to come by, but given the way things are organized it doesn't surprise me.
If you start playing table tennis as a young child you usually get good training at your club. I don't know of a single club that has youth teams but does not offer kids-training with a coach simultaneously. So if you start playing table tennis in Germany as a kid the chances you develop a decent technique are pretty high. Maybe that is why adults don't need personal coaches too often, usually they know all the basiscs already if they started at an early age.
 
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I haven't heard of anyone having personal coaches. Ambitious clubs may hire a good adult player from the area to do youth coaching (we had as well when I was younger), some kids have their father do the coaching, but it's never completely individual. If you are good enough, kids get into "Kadertraining" which is more intense with better coaches and the best kids of the regarding area.

Honestly if someone in our club would turn up with his hired personal coach, he would earn a lot of strange looks but I can see that it can be difficult to find a good training partner when you are new
 
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It is intetesting that coaching for adults is so hard to come by, but given the way things are organized it doesn't surprise me.

I do find it quite strange that it is hard to find a personal coach for an adult too..
If I wanted a coach it wouldn't be a problem as long as I have the money. Fundamentaly, what's the difference for the coach to train an adult or a kid? Maybe there is a shortage of coaches in Germany and all coaches are busy in clubs training kids in groups?
 
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I started as a kid in Sweden and had good coaching there. I have still benefited a lot from coaching as an adult, but usially for me I only get a lesson once in awhile. At a point though I took lessons from a then current US national champion about once a week for a year. I got better. He was not teaching me basics.

Even pros have coaches. Sometimes you have a problem you need to fix. Sometimes it is just fun to play with a formsr professional player.

But it is more important to just play regularly and have fun. And playing conditions in Germany are really good.
 
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I went ahead and tried to pull all the data I could find on local clubs. It seems like VfR Wiesbaden and FT Wi.-Schierstein are most available for open play. Minutes and distance are from where I am moving to near the Wiesbaden Hauptbahnhof to the respective club. There are a few at the bottom I still need to get. Theres a noticeable trend that 2 days per week is the average amount of days for open adult play per week. The time of day is about the same too.
ClubAddressMinutesDistanceMonTueWedThuFriSatSun
FT Wi.-SchiersteinHafenschule Schierstein
Zehntenhofstr. 6, 65201 Wiesbaden
1611.31900 - 22002000 - 22002000 - 2300 (by request)N/A
VfR WiesbadenSporthalle am 2.Ring Konrad-Adenauer-Ring 55, 65187 Wiesbaden62.31930 - 22002000 - 22302000 - 2230
VfR WiesbadenTurnhalle der Friedrich-von-Schiller Schule
Lorcher Str. 12, Eingang Homburger Straße, 65197 Wiesbaden
124.5
SC Klarenthal 1968Große Sporthalle
Geschwister-Scholl-Straße 8, 65197 Wiesbaden-Klarenthal
145.71930 - 21301930 - 2130
SC Klarenthal 1968Kleine Sporthalle (elementary school)
Geschwister-Scholl-Straße 8, 65197 Wiesbaden-Klarenthal
145.71930 - 21301930 - 2130
TG 1890 NaurodKellerskopfhalle
Laurentiusstraße 36, 65207 Wiesbaden-Naurod
17112000 - 22002000 - 2200
TG 1890 NaurodInternational School
Rudolf-Dietz-Straße 14, 65207 Wiesbaden-Naurod
1712.7no ttno ttno ttno ttno ttno ttno tt
TSV Auringen 1886Mehrzweckhalle am Sportplatz
Bremthaler Weg 2, 65207 Wiesbaden-Auringen
1915.319 - 222000 - 2200
TuS Dotzheim 1848Philipp-Reis-Schule Wiesbaden, Mühlborngasse 17, 65199 Wiesbaden166.91800 - 22001900 - 2200 (by appointment)N/A
TV 1846 ErbenheimJustus-von-Liebig-Schule
Lilienthalstr. 11, 65205 Wiesbaden
95.11930 - 22002000 - 2200
TV Frauenstein 1884TVF-Sporthalle
Bürgermeister-Schneider-Straße 3, 65201 Wiesbaden
1110.31915 - 23002015 - 2200
TV Waldstraße WiesbadenVereinshalle
Buchenstraße 2, 65187 Wiesbaden
83.22000 - 22002030 - 2230 (system training)N/A
SG Germ. WiesbadenGermania-Heim
Teutonenstraße 2a, 65187 Wiesbaden
104.31900 - ?
SV Blau-Gelb WiesbadenHeinrich-von-Kleist-Schule
Lorcherstraße, 65197 Wiesbaden
124.41800 - 2200
SV Blau-Gelb WiesbadenGoetheschule
Goethestraße 6, 65203 Wiesbaden
104.2
TTC RW 1921 BiebrichWaldorfschule
Albert-Schweitzer-Allee 42, 65203 Wiesbaden
105.11930 - 2130
TTC RW 1921 BiebrichFreiherr-vom-Stein-Schule
Straße der Republik 6, 65203 Wiesbaden
83.8
TTC RW 1921 BiebrichOtto-Stückrath-Schule
Albert-Schweitzer-Allee 40, 65203 Wiesbaden
105.2
TuS Dotzheim 1848Kohlheckschule, Kohlheckstraße 43, 65199 Wiesbaden156.91915 - 2200
TuS Et. Wiesbaden 1846Turnhalle Oranienschule
Eingang Karlstraße, 65185 Wiesbaden
133.21800 - 22001300 - 1700
TV 1846 ErbenheimHermann-Ehlers-Schule
Tempelhoferstraße 57, 65205 Wiesbaden
74.51930 - 22001500 - 2000
TV 1886 IgstadtJahnhalle
Hauptstraße 15, 65207 Wiesbaden-Igstadt
148.11900 - ?
TV 1886 IgstadtTurnhalle der JVA
Holzstraße 29, 65197 Wiesbaden
125.2
TV 1890 BreckenheimSport- und Kulturhalle
Am alten Weinberg, 65207 Wiesbaden-Breckenheim
1514.62000 - 2200
SC KohlheckFriedrich-von-Bodelschwingh-Schule
Pörtschacher Straße 12, 65187 Wiesbaden
105.4
TuS 1883 NordenstadtTaunushalle
Heerstraße, 65205 Wiesbaden Nordenstadt
139.8
TuS 1883 NordenstadtKarl-Gärtner-Schule
Wilhelm-Dietz-Straße 5, 65205 Wiesbaden Delkenheim
1110.4
TV 1877 KostheimTVK-Sportzentrum
Hauptstraße 12, 55246 Mainz-Kostheim
1212.8
TV 1881 BierstadtTheodor-Fliedner-Schule (kleine Halle)
Fliednerstraße, Eingang über Parkplatz Biegerstraße, 65191 Wiesbaden
104.7
 
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This is both true and comical if you compare to USA. Wiesbaden metro area (it really isn't a metro) has MAYBE a half million people and you cannot even count how many TT clubs they have organized into competition. LOTS of players both children and adults. In USA 90% of US metro areas with that population have zero clubs.

The VfR Wiesbaden TT club has FIVE mens teams... and they are not exactly a gigantic club, just a typical one for such an area.

Here in Sacramento, the metro area is like 1.5 to 2 Million depending if you want to count 25-30 miles out. Only LAST YEAR did a full time club open up (a Chinese lady opened it)... and now that one is about to be run out of business by a Vietnamese run club much better facilities. (it opens in a few weeks) Even if we take the under 100 players in the Sacramento area and offer a team league, you wouldn't get it off the ground with more than 4 teams in one tiny league. Still, you do not develop interest in a team league without offering it or running one. There is a lot of culture change needed and the drive is very long for many, but it could change.

Germany has such clubs even in tiny piss-ant towns. Not that they are bad, I love the open quality of these kind of towns, (especially the ones in the South) and USA ones are not quite like these. So in Germany, a puny town can sport a club that a half million metro area would not support. I was once in a metro area of 150,000 in USA and was the only registered TT player in the entire city.

The list MSS put up goes maybe 10-15 miles out... to maybe .5 million population... in USA, the most dense TT population is the bay area San Fran - Oakland - San Jose area... probably 15 or really great clubs. The overall population is 8 MILLION plus... and they have fewer TT clubs than the Wiesbaden area... and Wiesbaden isn't really the Juggernaut of TT density or top level...

That is the reality of how TT is over there in Deutschland... and the current situation is almost half as good as it was a couple decades ago.

MSS, eat it up and enjoy while you can. You are in for some serious culture shock when you get to USA, if you end up there next.
 
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Until you get some training going on, get a collapsible tripod and smart phone adapter to take some vids of a fw minutes of your sessions and post on TTD. Some half-azz clowns like Der_Echte and others can give you some impractical and useless advices and direction of what to do and how. Just be realistic, be very patient with timeframes for improvement, and use a really good bullcrap filter, especially when Carl and Der_Echte say anything. Occasionally, we might say something or value, but sift out the chaff, it is a good skill. Heck, you are likely pretty good skilled at that already.
 
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says 2023 Certified Organ Donor
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I also mentioned to avoid H2. If you have that on your bat by chance, use it on the BH. In the early going, you will mostly be doing what the Koreans advise... use the BH to keep ball in play to a place hard to attack and look to get in the FH shot. H2 on less than full power direct contact is OK for that... but H2 is very spin sensitive on that impact... however, the spin sensitivity of that rubber on less than full power impact will give you good training on your bat angles. That could hurt you a bit now, but help you down the road.

MX-P, if somehow you end up with that offensive juggernaut of a rubber, is also very good on direct impact. Until you learn the balance of brush and direct, you will likely be using direct impact... until you start trying hard to use more brush impact. MX-P is good enough on brush and strong in a lot of other areas that you will use down the road. A more middle of the road equipment is what the pundits (and also Der_Echte say) would advise, but what the heck, you can still learn TT using it. The rubber will not teach you balance, position, control of impact zone, reading opponent's feet position, spin on the ball and how much garlic the cook put in your pasta. These few things directly impact your play level and overall health more than what offensive inverted rubber you chose.

I differ from a pundit and agree that some equipment significantly out of the sweet middle zone can still work and have value. I agree with the pundits that middle ground equipment makes it easier to control and learn. Use your own judgment. Pundit who have been there and done that should still have their opinions carry weight in your decisions. There were successful for a reason. Still, we all have take our own steps and gain our own experiences, but if you look at where others have mis-stepped, it can make things more efficient. Still, self-discovery in TT is a good joy we should all experience.
 
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In you path of self discovery, you may be tempted to try everything out there in the sun... and become EQUIPMENT JUNKIE (EJ).

Please... Don't do it, not worth it.

Once you settle on a reasonable equipment, use it for a year or two as you grow. Replace the rubbers. Different rubbers require different impacts and grip pressure to make the same result. If you change equipment too much while you are growing, this will really screw up your learning efficiency. I am in strong agreement with pundits on this point.

Once you get a sound basis of the fundamentals established and some experience, why not tryout other players' equipment and learn what they all do, at that point, it won't hurt you as much.
 
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To the OP. Contact Suga and get to know him. You wont regret it!

Hahaha
[Emoji2]
Thanks for the kind words.
But meeting you has been a blessing, too. Hopefully i'll soon make it to visit David and his fam and return the favour.

Sugar, next time you apologize for making a proper detailed post to help someone big time, ima gunna go bust u in da chops.

Pound the like button on Sugar post.

I used to live in Wiesbaden before I discovered tt. Heck, I was also likely in the DC Maryland area same time as OP might have run across him.

Sugar, the Dotzheim location looks good... that isn't too far east of the city gym.

I also told OP that the huge city gym on 2Ring has open tt for adults twice a week... VfR Wiesbaden there are a few 1900 to 2000+ USATT level players there who speak English. Their membership is real puny, only so many Teuros a year.

I think OP could get on one of the lower men's teams.

Even if OP is just hitting with whoever at the club during adult training time, then he could still pick up stuff and develop some.

MSS, I would strongly advise you to take the first two semesters of German on post at Univ of Maryland. Often, that is as far as it gets with minimum enrollment. Otherwise, take a night class at the Volkshochschule, it is in an ex us army camp right across the street from KFC chicken on Schiersteiner Str. A few months of that or the first few semesters of Univ of M will get you enough foundation to express a chunk of what you want to say and grow from there.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

Hahaha. Understood. Won't do it again.
[Emoji2]
Your memory of Wiesbaden is excellent.

Thank you for all the information Suga D! I will have to visit your club sometime for sure but wouldn't be able to go there on a common basis due to the hour commute. I have four young kids at home and I need to be careful not to overextend myself :) As far as coaching it seems like my best bet would be to inquire about the coach you mentioned located in Dotzheim.

Great. Just saw that you also answered my pm. Gonna write back after this here.

If you start playing table tennis as a young child you usually get good training at your club. I don't know of a single club that has youth teams but does not offer kids-training with a coach simultaneously. So if you start playing table tennis in Germany as a kid the chances you develop a decent technique are pretty high. Maybe that is why adults don't need personal coaches too often, usually they know all the basiscs already if they started at an early age.

Although this used to be true and still is true in many areas there are also areas where the situation is changing.
For instance our club didn't have anymore youngsters and teenagers when i came back from my hiatus six years ago. Just old folks and even some adult beginners. And there are more clubs in the area where it's like that. IIRC the kids got less and less and the coach moved away because of his job after some time so the leftover kids then were sent to the neighbour club. Maybe i should add that our town of about 40,000 citizens has three (!!!) TT-clubs. Quite a bit imho (and proving Der_Echte's point).
Nowadays we've got 4 - 5 kids (trying to get more) and thinking of forming a Youngsters team in the future.
Not an easy task, so let's see how that goes.
Oops, drifting OT a bit.
Anyhow, what i wanted to say: there are also adults seeking for coaching.
They might not be the majority of players but that doesn't mean they are not there.
My friended coach and his team are well experienced in adult coaching. So there must be a reason for this.

I went ahead and tried to pull all the data I could find on local clubs. It seems like VfR Wiesbaden and FT Wi.-Schierstein are most available for open play. Minutes and distance are from where I am moving to near the Wiesbaden Hauptbahnhof to the respective club. There are a few at the bottom I still need to get. Theres a noticeable trend that 2 days per week is the average amount of days for open adult play per week. The time of day is about the same too.
ClubAddressMinutesDistanceMonTueWedThuFriSatSun
FT Wi.-SchiersteinHafenschule Schierstein
Zehntenhofstr. 6, 65201 Wiesbaden
1611.31900 - 22002000 - 22002000 - 2300 (by request)N/A
VfR WiesbadenSporthalle am 2.Ring Konrad-Adenauer-Ring 55, 65187 Wiesbaden62.31930 - 22002000 - 22302000 - 2230
VfR WiesbadenTurnhalle der Friedrich-von-Schiller Schule
Lorcher Str. 12, Eingang Homburger Straße, 65197 Wiesbaden
124.5
SC Klarenthal 1968Große Sporthalle
Geschwister-Scholl-Straße 8, 65197 Wiesbaden-Klarenthal
145.71930 - 21301930 - 2130
SC Klarenthal 1968Kleine Sporthalle (elementary school)
Geschwister-Scholl-Straße 8, 65197 Wiesbaden-Klarenthal
145.71930 - 21301930 - 2130
TG 1890 NaurodKellerskopfhalle
Laurentiusstraße 36, 65207 Wiesbaden-Naurod
17112000 - 22002000 - 2200
TG 1890 NaurodInternational School
Rudolf-Dietz-Straße 14, 65207 Wiesbaden-Naurod
1712.7no ttno ttno ttno ttno ttno ttno tt
TSV Auringen 1886Mehrzweckhalle am Sportplatz
Bremthaler Weg 2, 65207 Wiesbaden-Auringen
1915.319 - 222000 - 2200
TuS Dotzheim 1848Philipp-Reis-Schule Wiesbaden, Mühlborngasse 17, 65199 Wiesbaden166.91800 - 22001900 - 2200 (by appointment)N/A
TV 1846 ErbenheimJustus-von-Liebig-Schule
Lilienthalstr. 11, 65205 Wiesbaden
95.11930 - 22002000 - 2200
TV Frauenstein 1884TVF-Sporthalle
Bürgermeister-Schneider-Straße 3, 65201 Wiesbaden
1110.31915 - 23002015 - 2200
TV Waldstraße WiesbadenVereinshalle
Buchenstraße 2, 65187 Wiesbaden
83.22000 - 22002030 - 2230 (system training)N/A
SG Germ. WiesbadenGermania-Heim
Teutonenstraße 2a, 65187 Wiesbaden
104.31900 - ?
SV Blau-Gelb WiesbadenHeinrich-von-Kleist-Schule
Lorcherstraße, 65197 Wiesbaden
124.41800 - 2200
SV Blau-Gelb WiesbadenGoetheschule
Goethestraße 6, 65203 Wiesbaden
104.2
TTC RW 1921 BiebrichWaldorfschule
Albert-Schweitzer-Allee 42, 65203 Wiesbaden
105.11930 - 2130
TTC RW 1921 BiebrichFreiherr-vom-Stein-Schule
Straße der Republik 6, 65203 Wiesbaden
83.8
TTC RW 1921 BiebrichOtto-Stückrath-Schule
Albert-Schweitzer-Allee 40, 65203 Wiesbaden
105.2
TuS Dotzheim 1848Kohlheckschule, Kohlheckstraße 43, 65199 Wiesbaden156.91915 - 2200
TuS Et. Wiesbaden 1846Turnhalle Oranienschule
Eingang Karlstraße, 65185 Wiesbaden
133.21800 - 22001300 - 1700
TV 1846 ErbenheimHermann-Ehlers-Schule
Tempelhoferstraße 57, 65205 Wiesbaden
74.51930 - 22001500 - 2000
TV 1886 IgstadtJahnhalle
Hauptstraße 15, 65207 Wiesbaden-Igstadt
148.11900 - ?
TV 1886 IgstadtTurnhalle der JVA
Holzstraße 29, 65197 Wiesbaden
125.2
TV 1890 BreckenheimSport- und Kulturhalle
Am alten Weinberg, 65207 Wiesbaden-Breckenheim
1514.62000 - 2200
SC KohlheckFriedrich-von-Bodelschwingh-Schule
Pörtschacher Straße 12, 65187 Wiesbaden
105.4
TuS 1883 NordenstadtTaunushalle
Heerstraße, 65205 Wiesbaden Nordenstadt
139.8
TuS 1883 NordenstadtKarl-Gärtner-Schule
Wilhelm-Dietz-Straße 5, 65205 Wiesbaden Delkenheim
1110.4
TV 1877 KostheimTVK-Sportzentrum
Hauptstraße 12, 55246 Mainz-Kostheim
1212.8
TV 1881 BierstadtTheodor-Fliedner-Schule (kleine Halle)
Fliednerstraße, Eingang über Parkplatz Biegerstraße, 65191 Wiesbaden
104.7

Now that is some serious research you've done there. Well done. You don't work for the secret service or something?
[Emoji6]
Just jokin'. On a more serious note: good job.
[Emoji106]

Generally speaking 2 times a week plus additional league matches is very usual. Clubs with teams in higher leagues might offer three to four times a week but most offer two to three days.

As i wrote before i can strongly recommend the club where my friend coaches in Dotzheim, but i also know guys and gals from other clubs.
WI-Nordenstadt plays pretty high, RW-Biebrich also, so does Erbenheim, but they went through some restructuring last year or so and all the guys i knew there have left the club. So not sure if i can recommend them.
But a very good club is a little outside of WI in Kriftel. They have good coaches and strong teams.
The highest team of them all would be Mainz05 which play in the 2nd Bundesliga. But i think they mostly offer youth and Pro coaching, so not sure if that's the best deal.

Until you get some training going on, get a collapsible tripod and smart phone adapter to take some vids of a fw minutes of your sessions and post on TTD. Some half-azz clowns like Der_Echte and others can give you some impractical and useless advices and direction of what to do and how. Just be realistic, be very patient with timeframes for improvement, and use a really good bullcrap filter, especially when Carl and Der_Echte say anything. Occasionally, we might say something or value, but sift out the chaff, it is a good skill. Heck, you are likely pretty good skilled at that already.

This is always a good option. The cam just doesn't lie.
[Emoji2]
 
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Suga D,

Roland Tedjasukmana offered to coach me in Erbenheim on Saturday’s from 9-1130. I believe he also coaches out of Kriftel which I believe he says is the nicest. Saturday is going to be hard trying to be consistent because it’s our busiest day of the week. Most ideal for me would be right after I get off work M-F or early Sunday. It also helps for the location to be close. If you have training times for any available and willing coaches you know please feel free to post. Thanks again for all the info here. I’ll revisit tm when I wake up.


Hahaha
[Emoji2]
Thanks for the kind words.
But meeting you has been a blessing, too. Hopefully i'll soon make it to visit David and return the favour.



Hahaha. Understood. Won't do it again.
[Emoji2]
Your memory of Wiesbaden is excellent.



Great. Just saw that you also answered my pm. Gonna write back after this here.



Although this used to be true and still is true in many areas there are also areas where the situation is changing.
For instance our club didn't have anymore youngsters and teenagers when i came back from my hiatus six years ago. Just old folks and even some adult beginners. And there are more clubs in the area where it's like that. IIRC the kids got less and less and the coach moved away because of his job after some time so the leftover kids then were sent to the neighbour club. Maybe i should add that our town of about 40,000 citizens has three (!!!) TT-clubs. Quite a bit imho (and proving Der_Echte's point).
Nowadays we've got 4 - 5 kids (trying to get more) and thinking of forming a Youngsters team in the future.
Not an easy task, so let's see how that goes.
Oops, drifting OT a bit.
Anyhow, what i wanted to say: there are also adults seeking for coaching.
They might not be the majority of players but that doesn't mean they are not there.
My friended coach and his team are well experienced in adult coaching. So there must be a reason for this.



Now that is some serious research you've done there. Well done. You don't work for the secret service or something?
[Emoji6]
Just jokin'. On a more serious note: good job.
[Emoji106]

Generally speaking 2 times a week plus additional league matches is very usual. Clubs with teams in higher leagues might offer three to four times a week like the club but most offer two to three days.

As i wrote before i can strongly recommend the club where my friend coaches in Dotzheim, but i also know guys and gals from other clubs.
WI-Nordenstadt plays pretty high, RW-Biebrich also, so does Erbenheim, but they went through some restructuring last year or so and all the guys i knew there have left the club. So not sure if i can recommend them.
But a very good club is a little outside of WI in Kriftel. They have good coaches and strong teams.
The highest team of them all would be Mainz05 which play in the 2nd Bundesliga. But i think they mostly offer youth and Pro coaching, so not sure if that's the best deal.



This is always a good option. The cam just doesn't lie.
[Emoji2]
 
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Suga D,

Roland Tedjasukmana offered to coach me in Erbenheim on Saturday’s from 9-1130. I believe he also coaches out of Kriftel which I believe he says is the nicest. Saturday is going to be hard trying to be consistent because it’s our busiest day of the week. Most ideal for me would be right after I get off work M-F or early Sunday. It also helps for the location to be close. If you have training times for any available and willing coaches you know please feel free to post. Thanks again for all the info here. I’ll revisit tm when I wake up.


Wow, have you met Roland? He's a very good and well respected coach and a real nice guy. He used to play Bundesliga back in the days and was long time coach of my best friend. If you see him it would be nice if you would tell him that a friend of David from Mörfelden recommended him.
Would love to see the expression on his face when you tell him that.
[Emoji2]
Anyways, i'll try to find out what will be your best bet and'll let you know.
[Emoji106]
 
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Suga my brother, just let me know when it happens!
 
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