What are the plies of my blade made of?

Suga D · Aug 31, 2015

BeGo said:
this remind me to Anna Blade that Chtchetinine ever used.

http://tt.arbinada.com/node/296

Sent from my T1X Plus using Tapatalk

It really does

Except the weight.

UpSideDownCarl · Aug 31, 2015

Hinoki is super light weight and amazing wood. It would be worth trying a blade from Darker. All Hinoki blades share certain characteristics in common. But Darker, uses the best quality Hinoki I have seen anywhere. Those blades are true works of art. It is a Japanese company and it is hard to order them. You can order from Japan or Australia. I know any other place to order from. But they are exquisite blades. And it would be, I am pretty confident, the closest thing you could get to what you have. Won't be the same. But as close as you can get and it will have that feeling of amazing grab on the ball that characterizes Hinoki when you are looping.

Does that make sense?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

UpSideDownCarl · Aug 31, 2015

Suga D said:
It really does
Except the weight.

Not really. Those are totally different kinds of wood from what you have. Look at those pores in the plies. Very different kinds of wood.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Suga D · Aug 31, 2015

That makes a lot of sense. Thanks, Carl.
It'd be great to have a backup for mine without the need of big changes in technique. I guess i should give it a try then.
I found a german webshop that carries Darker Blades, but they only had 5 different models. I think this here could be close to mine, except that it's a 5ply +2 carbon layers and mine is 3ply + 2 carbon layers.
Do you know this one?
http://www.spinfactory.de/hoelzer/esteem.html

The others didn't seem to fit, except maybe this one. But this is a one ply...

http://www.spinfactory.de/hoelzer/hinoki-speed-90.html

But that reminds me of this...

http://www.spinfactory.de/hoelzer/miyabi.html

Well thanks a lot for your help. I

Suga D · Aug 31, 2015

UpSideDownCarl said:
Not really. Those are totally different kinds of wood from what you have. Look at those pores in the plies. Very different kinds of wood.

Sent from my homephone using Hinokitalk

Oh, you're right.
It didn't look so from my mobile, but the full site has brought clarity.

(Edit: plus the outer plies look a little thicker.)

UpSideDownCarl · Aug 31, 2015

You don't want the Speed-90. That would be more for hanging on your wall! Why do I say that?

Well, first off, it is 9mm thick which is a bit too thick for serving shakehand. Second, it is heavier than you want even though that would not bother Der_Echte. Third, it is one ply which means it plays AMAZING and will get you addicted to a blade you can't realistically use in match play because it will feel better than anything and everything you have ever felt for mid-distance looping. And the fourth reason is that, because it is ONE PLY, it will break really easily and for no apparent reason. The wood splits along the grain of the plies very easily and then, that is a lot of loot down the tubes.

When I am at a computer I will make sure that 5 ply is the best one for you.

What is the speed rating of your NSO?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Suga D · Aug 31, 2015

When it first came out it was rated off- but nowadays it feels like all+ to off- with more tendencies towards all+

What you wrote about that one-ply makes sense, too. Still wonder how it feels.

But you know where my focus' at.

Great insights.

I wonder if anybody on this forum has played with the NSO (and felt the same about it as i do)

UpSideDownCarl · Sep 1, 2015

You know what, based on that, your best bet would be to find an NSO to buy. The darker Hinoki+Carbon blades will be Off to Off+.

You could see about finding an old all wood Butterfly Jonyer-H or Klampar-H. They won't play like the NSO but they will be similar speed class abs have that great feel (grab) you get when you loop with a Hinoki blade of that speed.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

UpSideDownCarl · Sep 1, 2015

Also, Spruce is fast. I don't think you would not want a blade made of Spruce and Carbon. Usually Spruce is used in 5 ply blades between the core and the outer ply to make the blade faster and lighter. Hinoki is often used for all plies or for the outer ply. Or as all plies except that one carbon ply.

You could also try a Darker 7P-2A. That will be about the speed of your blade or a little faster and it will be an all wood 7 ply Hinoki blade.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Suga D · Sep 1, 2015

Thanks again. I guess you're right. I'm gonna start lookin' for another NSO.

On the other hand: if i could get used to that Dotec blade, which is rated 'off' then it shouldn't be too difficult, to adjust to an other blade...
So i just try to get hold of another NSO, and if that's impossible to get, then go from there on.... (either look at the Darker blades, or try to find someone that's experienced in makin' Hinoki Blades.)

Oh well. Here we go again. Back to testeritis.

Thanks again for your insights and the time you took to reply. Also thanks to BeGo and Tinykin. You all helped me clear my vision. Very appreciated. Good Job.

UpSideDownCarl · Sep 2, 2015

The Darker blade I would try is 7P-2A. That should be Off- or on the slow side of regular Off, and have very good feeling but when you loop it will have an awesome feeling.

Sent from my iSpyPhone using TroubleMakerTalk

UpSideDownCarl · Sep 2, 2015

By the way, I am making that judgement based on the fact that you say the NSO is All+ to Off-. Did I get that right?

Sent from my iSpyPhone using TroubleMakerTalk

Suga D · Sep 2, 2015

You are totally right, although it was rated OFF- when it came out.

I know you really like All wood blades, but have you ever tried the NSO? If not you really should. It's a real topspinfactory.

The thin carbon directly underneath the thin Hinoki top ply has a real good feel but still gives enough power to loop from a step or two behind of the table but doesn't feel so wobbly like the NSD (Nittaku Shake Defence) 'cause it's not so BIG headed like the NSD and a little stiffer as it, too, but still has enough flex to put some nice rotation on the ball.

There is this one guy who collects old blades and runs this website:

http://tt-museum.jimdo.com

(@Liten: this might be interesting for you, too)
Someone asked him in his guestbook (?!) if he would be selling one NSO just a couple of weeks ago, but the answer was no, 'cause he's only got one left. But he'd sell any other blade (Aaargh!!)

You should really try it, it's a real well balanced blade IMHO and it doesn't feel like that "typical" classic carbon blade at all.
One guy on a german forum, who owns all 4 types of the Nittaku shake series and posted a pic of them and wrote that one of his NSD (Nittaku Shake Defence) is actually faster than his NSO, 'cause the NSD is way more thick. (must be that inertia and so)

He's also pretty active on other Forums and posted the same pics right here:

http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=69217&PN=5

But he also doesn't want to sell his NSO... yet

Maybe getting used to a blade that isn't produced anymore is just not a very wise decision...

But there would be a blade that plays pretty close to the NSO.
Its name is Yinhe Bogen
The ply setup is supposed to be like this:
Hinoki ( 0,6 ) - Carbon ( 0,1 ) - Ajous ( 4,0 ) - Carbon ( 0,1 ) - Hinoki ( 0,6 mm )
Have you ever played with that blade or heard of it? Well i don't.
PLUS it doesn't seem to be produced anymore as well, 'cause i could only find one single shop selling it on the whole wide web... (Aaargh again!!!)

The 7P-2A is an allwood blade, that's why i thought the Darker 'Esteem' would be closer to my NSO, but in terms of speed i guess you're right again.... Man, i don't know.. My vision's getting blurry again...

Maybe i should have a cup of tea and a liedown...

UpSideDownCarl · Sep 2, 2015

You know, the truth is, I don't mind Carbon. There are a lot of really good Carbon blades. And my bet is that blade has good feeling so I would like it.

The reason I do come out with a stance "against" Carbon is that, so many new players who have no technique and no feeling end up getting these silly, fast, feelingless Carbon blades that actually inhibit a newer player's development of contact, feeling, touch and how to use hand pressure: in short, all the more subtle aspects of stroke technique.

And then you have some guy with a blade that has a 6mm balsa core and a layer of fiberglass using this rocket of a blade that has no dwell time and swearing that there is no such thing as dwell time and that a drive is a loop.

Oops. I shouldn't go there. But, there are so many players whose skill set would improve faster with a more simple setup.

That being said, a person who has already developed those things can use just about anything. I have played with Sardius and Gergely and I can get touch with them. But I also like practicing what I preach! I don't need that. I have enough power. A slow, all wood blade is enough for an eccentric character like me. But the true EJ in me likes to try EVERYTHING.

And your NSO doesn't look like it falls into that category.

Sent from my OuterSpacePhone using TroubleMakerTalk

UpSideDownCarl · Sep 2, 2015

I am making this a separate post so it doesn't get buried.

The Darker you linked to with Carbon is rated Off+. That would be like trying to put a harness on the wind. Well, not exactly. But it would be very different than what you are looking for.

However, I have this theory: if a blade is truly a high quality product and you use it for long enough it will begin to feel like a part of you. And you will uncover an almost mystical connection with that blade.

I think this talks to your attachment to your NSO. And if you got a 7P-2A, for a few weeks you would miss many of the things that you get from the slower blade and the Carbon of the NSO. But after about 2 months you would also feel a bunch of things you gained from a faster blade that is softer with better dwell time and a softer feeling.

And then you would start feeling it was part of you and that magical connection would undoubtedly develop.

I have a friend who has that feeling for his Jonyer-H. I gave him a different, but similar 5 ply Hinoki blade and then, after two months he agreed that I was right.

Sent from my OuterSpacePhone using TroubleMakerTalk

Suga D · Sep 3, 2015

After having a good lie down and a lovely cup of tea i feel much better and am able to think again. ;P

Well the thing is, i'm not totally 'hooked' on composite blades (i think i still have an unused Rosewood NCT V lying around in a drawer) but i was actually lookin' for a backup to that NSO just in case this old blade of mine breaks. I don't have trouble adapting to another blade, but it's less than two weeks before the new season starts and i don't think it would be a wise decision getting a completely different type of blade.
This would be a little throwback, although I know it's TBT today.

Maybe i should try to get that Yinhe Bogen for now and look for that 7P-2A after the season next may.
Darker seems to have a real good reputation, but none of the players in our club owns one, so i could give it a try without having to buy...

But still many thanks for your thoughts and time you've been taking. That 7P-2A really sounds interesting...
If it wasn't so close to season's start i would try get it immediatly. But i think keeping the patience might be a little smarter at the moment...

UpSideDownCarl · Sep 3, 2015

I think all of that makes sense.

Suga D · Oct 4, 2015

I finally found a solution...
Kevin from americanhinoki.com created me this beautiful masterpiece of american craftsmanship. He exceeded my expectations by far! Thanks Kevin!

UpSideDownCarl · Oct 5, 2015

Now that was a good solution.

Sent from TheSecretHideout using TheInfamousNSASpyPhone

UpSideDownCarl · Oct 5, 2015

I like that it has your forum user name on it!!!

Sent from TheSecretHideout using TheInfamousNSASpyPhone

What are the plies of my blade made of?

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Similar threads