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►MA Long Vs FAN Zhendong [HD] [Full Match|Short Form/+Slow Motions]
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GAC Asian Cup 2014
- Thread starter zjkfanforever
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►MA Long Vs FAN Zhendong [HD] [Full Match|Short Form/+Slow Motions]
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If ZJK or ML can't participate, FZD will get the highest ranking spot (not wild card) from Asian Cup.
If ZJK and ML participate, then the number 2 in Asia can't particpate, unless ITTF wild card.
This is why World Cup is not a major tournament any more, there is limitations to this continental cup and thus huge limitations to world cup.
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Now thats the scary thing with Chinese table tennis. Ma Long is not guaranteed a spot for Rio 2016.
IMO at this stage there is 4 players and any of the 2 can take those spot. Namely ZJK, ML, XX and FZD.
With just over a year to go until the qualification world ranking list after WTTC 2015 (if i'm correct) and 2 years until Rio 2016, there is always a possibility that XX and FZD develop the game so much and also a possibility of ML and ZJK failing more and more, thus the number 1 and 2 of today, may not even be top 2, in 2 years time.
Also a huge possiblity that FZD don't make it, and 2020, some other 1 and 2 players push FZD to 3rd spot.
I think only China has such an uncertainty of who can qualify (for 2 spots).
Almost any other country, you can give a clear prediction on who the 2 spots will go to, or rather accurately guess one of the two spot already.
I wouldn't want to bet money on which one of the two Chinese spots will go to, as anything is possible at this stage.
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bebakhshid.
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bebakhshid.
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Only 2 persons can compete in World Cup from every country so number 2 in Asia can participate if he is not Chinese.
If World Cup is not a major tournament then Olympics is not either because in Olympics only 2 persons can compete from every country like World Cup.Also tension in World Cup is very high like WTTC.
Number of players in a competition is not the only factor for the level of that competition.
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bebakhshid.
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bebakhshid.
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Zhang Jike and Ma Long has more chance than the others. Fan Zhendong defeated Ma long only one time in his life and it was a full length match with Ma Long being semi-injured.
Zhang Jike has the best technique and mentally. Very soon he will go back to his "Grand Slam" form to get his World Rank as high as possible.
The main rivalry is between Fan Zhendong and Xu Xin for the 3rd spot to be in the team event at 2016 Olympics.
Player performance at 2015 WTTC will have a strong effect on their World Ranking. It will be a very intense tournament for Chinese players. The winner will have a very big jump in World Rank.
At 2020 Olympics Fan Zhendong will be 23. He will be at his best at that age. Its very unlikely that someone will be better than him.
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Only 2 people can compete in WC - correct, unless ITTF wild card, and for Chinese players it has happened before!
WC is not a major tournament because of it qualification procedures, compared with Olympic where the qualification is so much more open to all (World Ranking) but unfair to stronger players like the number 3 of Germany, Japan, Korea, etc
Tenson in WC is not very high compared to WTTC....not sure where you have the idea that it is high.
Please see how many tiers of matches there is in WTTC compared to WC, given that seeded players does not need to play in RR in WTTC.
Also see from about 2nd round onwards, it will become close encounters - due to 5 player or 7 player per country.
In AC, you get weaker players that make number 5 to 10 spot (and they make such high ranking because of 2 players per country rule), thus they also qualify for WC. This is why I say WC is not a high level or major tournament any more.
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Chance today yes, but there is still over 18 months that can change the fate of the player.
Its silly to look at the past result, it is important to look at results from WTTC2015, dating back 12 month and 6-12 month after too.
As that is a more clear reflection on matureness and form of player, especially the younger ones.
The combination can be:
ZJK + ML or ZJK + XX or ZJK + FZD or ML+XX or ML + FZD or XX+FZD.
You can't write off any player will can become the new number 1 and 2 and you also can not write off any players that will loose form or get injured prior to Rio 2016.
ZJK and ML will be "older", and generally performance/speed is on the decend by that age. If it is Rio say 2018, then those 2 extra years will hurt them even more.
I'm just stating this as for Ma Long, such a great player - has a chance not to make 1 Olympic singles in his life time
I don't know why, so many people look at perforamance today, and conclude the list for 2016....not even LGL can do this, but you guys can.
Age is a problem for Chinese players, maybe only advantage is SH players tend to last longer than Cpen players. But to state ML + ZJK is the 2 for Rio 2016 is a bit too early. If it is Rio 2014, then of course.
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Hows former world number 1 Guo Yue at age 23?
Are you willing to bet that no other player will be better than FZD in 2020?
FZD is a great player at his age, just like Ma Long at 16/17.
WH was a no body at that age (in fact he was only good enough to be a practice partner)
So maybe you shouldn't write off any body. 20 ~ 24 years old is the key. They either make it or break it.
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bebakhshid.
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Surely WC hasn't the level of WTTC but still it is great tournament. Look at the players in WC. They are more motivated than other tournaments except of WTTC and OG. Look at the reactions of Ma Long, Xu Xin and Zhang Jike when they won their World Cups. Zhang Jike even rips his shirt off. That is why i say it is a major (in other words "important") tournament.
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bebakhshid.
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Age is surely a problem but 1 year is nothing to effect the players performance. Zhang Jike and Ma Long may get weaker. Xu Xin and Fan Zhendong may get better. Zhang Jike and Ma Long are far better players now. One year will not be enough for Xu Xin and Fan Zhendong to reach them.
Anyway we can't know what will happen in future. Maybe Zhang Jike and Ma Long get injured or something and fall in the world ranking. Unfortunately this happens to Ma Long before 2011 WTTC and he fall form WR #1 to #5 and missed his chance to be in London 2012.
I'm not sure about the future of them but Zhang Jike and Ma Long have 90% chance to be in Rio 2016.
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If you not sure about the future, then why you still make such judgement/prediction?
Not even the palyers personal coach in CNT dare make such judgement/prediction
I guess that is the different with people that are practically involed with the team and people that are just supportors.
If you are a fund manager, there is no ways I'm willing to give you my money
A lot can happen in 1 year, 1 year can be a good year and can be a really bad year. This is sports, everything is possible.
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Yep, happy to see that you agree that it isn't the same level of WTTC.
In terms of ranking of the Top 3, it is number 3 for sure or maybe 4 where Pro Tour grand final will slot into 3.
I won't say ZJK's one instance of ripping the shirt off in the WC is the "motivation" that can suggest WC is a such "great" title.
90% of the reason why he rip his short off, got to do with the 2 year build up to him coming back into CNT and winning a world final. It can be any world final, and he would do the same. If ZJK did not have that build up (stress and pressure), his reaction wouldn't be like that.
Yes, WC is a major or important, and one of the three to be labled table tennis grand slam. But it is really a joke (compared to any other sporting world cups/championships) in terms of participants. It is a tournament that is fair from a geographic point of view and not world ranking/playing level point of view.
There is tons of debate over the years on this point already because of this.
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bebakhshid.
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How do you know Players personal coaches in CNT make such judgement/prediction?If you not sure about the future, then why you still make such judgement/prediction?
Not even the palyers personal coach in CNT dare make such judgement/prediction
I guess that is the different with people that are practically involed with the team and people that are just supportors.
If you are a fund manager, there is no ways I'm willing to give you my money
A lot can happen in 1 year, 1 year can be a good year and can be a really bad year. This is sports, everything is possible.
Everything can happen but some people has more chances than others. To me they are Zhang Jike and Ma Long. I'm not saying they will surely be there. I'm saying they have simply more chance than the others.
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Entry list for World Cup 2013:
A WR21 can be a seeded player.....
Obviously, the European entry was a bit messed up too.. If I recall, there was a cancelled qualifcation tournament (Europe Cup) and the invitation was based on WTTC results
http://www.ittf.com/World_Events/2013MWC/2013_MWC_Confirmed list_final.pdf
| Name | Sex | WR | Date of Birth (mm/dd/yyyy) | Update | ||
| 1 | XU Xin CHN | M | 2 | 01/08/1990 | 10/18/2013 4:00:56 AM | |
| 2 | BOLL Timo GER | M | 5 | 03/08/1981 | 10/18/2013 4:01:01 AM | |
| 3 | OVTCHAROV Dimitrij GER | M | 6 | 09/02/1988 | 10/18/2013 4:01:11 AM | |
| 4 | CHUANG Chih-Yuan TPE | M | 7 | 04/02/1981 | 10/18/2013 4:01:20 AM | |
| 5 | YAN An CHN | M | 8 | 01/12/1993 | 10/18/2013 4:01:24 AM | |
| 6 | SAMSONOV Vladimir BLR | M | 15 | 04/17/1976 | 10/18/2013 4:01:38 AM | |
| 7 | BAUM Patrick GER | M | 20 | 06/23/1987 | 10/18/2013 4:01:32 AM | |
| 8 | JIANG Tianyi HKG | M | 21 | 02/28/1988 | 10/18/2013 4:01:42 AM | |
| 9 | FREITAS Marcos POR | M | 25 | 04/08/1988 | 10/18/2013 3:52:54 AM | |
| 10 | TANG Peng HKG | M | 26 | 02/04/1981 | 10/18/2013 3:52:36 AM | |
| 11 | CHEN Chien-An TPE | M | 27 | 06/16/1991 | 10/18/2013 3:53:02 AM | |
| 12 | JUNG Youngsik KOR | M | 48 | 01/20/1992 | 10/18/2013 3:52:50 AM | |
| 13 | ACHANTA Sharath Kamal IND | M | 51 | 07/12/1982 | 10/18/2013 3:52:40 AM | |
| 14 | ALAMIYAN Noshad IRI | M | 53 | 11/21/1991 | 10/18/2013 3:52:46 AM | |
| 15 | YANG Zi SIN | M | 93 | 06/19/1984 | 10/18/2013 3:52:58 AM | |
| 16 | LASHIN El-Sayed EGY | M | 99 | 02/09/1980 | 10/18/2013 3:52:15 AM | |
| 17 | SAIVE Jean-Michel BEL | M | 130 | 11/17/1969 | 10/18/2013 3:51:48 AM | |
| 18 | HENZELL William AUS | M | 133 | 03/23/1982 | 10/18/2013 3:51:33 AM | |
| 19 | MONTEIRO Thiago BRA | M | 147 | 06/15/1981 | 10/18/2013 3:51:58 AM | |
| 20 | HO Andre CAN | M | 386 | 04/11/1992 | 10/18/2013 3:52:02 AM |
A WR21 can be a seeded player.....
Obviously, the European entry was a bit messed up too.. If I recall, there was a cancelled qualifcation tournament (Europe Cup) and the invitation was based on WTTC results
http://www.ittf.com/World_Events/2013MWC/2013_MWC_Confirmed list_final.pdf
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Because I chat to some high level (provincial head coaches) often, and they have a much better inside knowledge.
Again, if chance today yes. But chance in 1 year time, is a different story.
This is sports, and very fast changing sport.
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bebakhshid.
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bebakhshid.
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We will never find out What Zhang Jike can be done if it was not a WC final.
Agree with you about the bad way of selecting players for WC. But still it is number 3 in terms of importance of world events. Pro tour Grand Final is a joke to be a major one. It is just a world tour event like others.
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Grand Final being the riches tournament out there is "great" because the qualifications requires players to play in X amount of world tours in X amount of continent and then rank then by points collected during the year.
So this is a qualifcation based on a player who has done well and participated in a many world tours over a selective amount of time. Than oppose to just show up in 1 touranement and do well there and get crowned champion etc.
So imo, Grand Final is a more fair selection policy than WC
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bebakhshid.
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bebakhshid.
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We will never find out What Zhang Jike can be done if it was not a WC final.
Agree with you about the bad way of selecting players for WC. But still it is number 3 in terms of importance of world events. Pro tour Grand Final is a joke to be a major one. It is just a world tour event like others.
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Invitations for Grand Final:
To qualify for the Grand Finals in single, the players have to attend at least 5 events.
To qualify for the Grand Finals in doubles, the same pair has to play at least 4 events.
To qualify for the Grand Finals in U21, the players have to attend 4 events in at least 2 continents.
SINGLES
The top sixteen (16) men and sixteen (16) women who have accumulated the largest
number of points at ITTF World Tour events during 2013 will be invited to participate
in the GAC GROUP 2013 ITTF World Tour Grand Finals.
In addition, the ITTF will invite one men’s and one women’s player from the
association hosting the 2013 World Tour Grand Finals as the 17th player.
To qualify for the Grand Finals in single, the players have to attend at least 5 events.
To qualify for the Grand Finals in doubles, the same pair has to play at least 4 events.
To qualify for the Grand Finals in U21, the players have to attend 4 events in at least 2 continents.
SINGLES
The top sixteen (16) men and sixteen (16) women who have accumulated the largest
number of points at ITTF World Tour events during 2013 will be invited to participate
in the GAC GROUP 2013 ITTF World Tour Grand Finals.
In addition, the ITTF will invite one men’s and one women’s player from the
association hosting the 2013 World Tour Grand Finals as the 17th player.
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Invitations for Grand Final:
To qualify for the Grand Finals in single, the players have to attend at least 5 events.
To qualify for the Grand Finals in doubles, the same pair has to play at least 4 events.
To qualify for the Grand Finals in U21, the players have to attend 4 events in at least 2 continents.
SINGLES
The top sixteen (16) men and sixteen (16) women who have accumulated the largest
number of points at ITTF World Tour events during 2013 will be invited to participate
in the GAC GROUP 2013 ITTF World Tour Grand Finals.
In addition, the ITTF will invite one men’s and one women’s player from the
association hosting the 2013 World Tour Grand Finals as the 17th player.
To qualify for the Grand Finals in single, the players have to attend at least 5 events.
To qualify for the Grand Finals in doubles, the same pair has to play at least 4 events.
To qualify for the Grand Finals in U21, the players have to attend 4 events in at least 2 continents.
SINGLES
The top sixteen (16) men and sixteen (16) women who have accumulated the largest
number of points at ITTF World Tour events during 2013 will be invited to participate
in the GAC GROUP 2013 ITTF World Tour Grand Finals.
In addition, the ITTF will invite one men’s and one women’s player from the
association hosting the 2013 World Tour Grand Finals as the 17th player.
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