Chinese rubbers in the modern TT era

This user has no status.
This user has no status.
Well-Known Member
Dec 2017
1,144
619
2,637
I feel there is no doubt the quality of rallies has dropped while the physical demand of the body has increased a lot.
This is not something that equipment can fix - maybe the game will become more and more slower in the next decades....

Sure Tony, but how would you explain those young Japanese kids (and not only Japanese) being so successful nowadays? Before 40+ era, Zhang Jike needed those huge leg muscles to "take the power/spin from the ground". The swing had to be larger. Now all trainers suggest short, compact move for the fh stroke ...
 
This user has no status.
This user has no status.
Well-Known Member
Sep 2013
7,261
6,232
15,306
Read 3 reviews
Sure Tony, but how would you explain those young Japanese kids (and not only Japanese) being so successful nowadays? Before 40+ era, Zhang Jike needed those huge leg muscles to "take the power/spin from the ground". The swing had to be larger. Now all trainers suggest short, compact move for the fh stroke ...

I'm sure I said it somewhere
the only players in the top 50 that isn't injured is pretty much your youngsters.

firstly with Japan, it is of many factors:
1) these kids are younger and learnt for the 40+, compared to your Ma Long, Xu Xin (30 year olds) that learns 40mm and had to change to 40+. Throughout history we can see how many world champs struggle with the transition, this is normal.
Every rule change basically has ended careers for some.

2) Japan had unlimited budget for Tokyo 2020 olympics games. and the approach is 1 player appoints his/her own manager and that manager has full control on how the money is spent.
they will appoint the players own coach/training partners, staff/medical etc
You saw what happened with China 1 coach many players system - some players will not get attention. Japan has been doing this for 6-7 years already (15 juniors chosen with unlimited budget)

3) you said it yourself, new style of coaching suggest shorter shots - to prevent injury and to add efficiency in getting ready for the next stroke - the rallies are much longer
a lot of the younger players are learning this, while the older players much unlearn and relearn.

So, now my question is - how long will the younger player last?
they may seem fit and less injury to your older's today
But the body is a machine, eventually it will break down.
From most of the national team coaches I have came across, they all are worried about the amount of injuries.
I know one that is prone to injury in 40mm, and got worse with 40+ has pretty much ended his career. He was a world100-200 quality. His injury was shoulder.
 
This user has no status.
This user has no status.
Well-Known Member
Dec 2017
1,144
619
2,637
firstly with Japan, it is of many factors:
1) these kids are younger and learnt for the 40+, compared to your Ma Long, Xu Xin (30 year olds) that learns 40mm and had to change to 40+. Throughout history we can see how many world champs struggle with the transition, this is normal.
Every rule change basically has ended careers for some.

I would support this also analyzing my amateur scene. Those colleagues with shorter strokes do relatively much better now, while for people trying to play a spin oriented game it's an uphill battle sometimes.


3) you said it yourself, new style of coaching suggest shorter shots - to prevent injury and to add efficiency in getting ready for the next stroke - the rallies are much longer
a lot of the younger players are learning this, while the older players much unlearn and relearn.

So would it be safe to say, that you don't have to be stronger physically, but you should rather have a marathon like stamina?
 
You have to be physically fit which equates to being strong on your shots and not just stamina. Explosive part of the stroke is essential on that level. Stamina can only prolong your strokes but having powrr is different.
 
  • Like
Reactions: fais
This user has no status.
This user has no status.
Well-Known Member
Dec 2017
1,144
619
2,637
When was the last time he won WTTC or Olympics? Samsonov is a "dying breed", all about smarts and no relying on power and speed.

Many young players would like to be 'dying' like this ...

2018 - World Tour, Bulgarian Open, Panagyurishte (BUL) - Seniors - QF
2017 - World Tour Grand Finals, Astana (KAZ) - Seniors - Rnd of 16
2017 - World Tour, Australian Open, Gold Coast (AUS) - Seniors - Winner
2017 - World Tour, Hungarian Open, Budapest (HUN) - Seniors - QF
2016 - World Tour, China Open, Chengdu (CHN) - Seniors - QF
2016 - World Tour, LAOX Japan Open, Tokyo (JPN) - Seniors - QF
2016 - World Tour, Kuwait Open, Kuwait City (KUW) - Seniors - QF
2016 - World Tour, Qatar Open, Doha (QAT) - Seniors - QF
2016 - World Tour, German Open, Berlin (GER) - Seniors - Runner-Up

Since 2016, when the poly was already introduced.
Source ittf.com.
 
Last edited:
This user has no status.
This user has no status.
Well-Known Member
Oct 2016
1,659
1,140
5,311
You understand what "dying breed" means? :)

How many WTTC golds and Olympic golds the last 10 years?

Just to be clear, I respect Vladis accomplishments a lot, he's perhaps the smartest player in the world, but it's not enough to win the big titles.

Many young players would like to be 'dying' like this ...

2018 - World Tour, Bulgarian Open, Panagyurishte (BUL) - Seniors - QF
2017 - World Tour Grand Finals, Astana (KAZ) - Seniors - Rnd of 16
2017 - World Tour, Australian Open, Gold Coast (AUS) - Seniors - Winner
2017 - World Tour, Hungarian Open, Budapest (HUN) - Seniors - QF
2016 - World Tour, China Open, Chengdu (CHN) - Seniors - QF
2016 - World Tour, LAOX Japan Open, Tokyo (JPN) - Seniors - QF
2016 - World Tour, Kuwait Open, Kuwait City (KUW) - Seniors - QF
2016 - World Tour, Qatar Open, Doha (QAT) - Seniors - QF
2016 - World Tour, German Open, Berlin (GER) - Seniors - Runner-Up

Since 2016, when the poly was introduced.
Source ittf.com.
 
This user has no status.
This user has no status.
Well-Known Member
Dec 2017
1,144
619
2,637
You understand what "dying breed" means? :)

How many WTTC golds and Olympic golds the last 10 years?

Just to be clear, I respect Vladis accomplishments a lot, he's perhaps the smartest player in the world, but it's not enough to win the big titles.

My point was, if you can dictate the tempo off the table, like Vladi does with his bh, then you might not be a 'dying breed' at all ...
 
Last edited:
This user has no status.
This user has no status.
Well-Known Member
Sep 2013
7,261
6,232
15,306
Read 3 reviews
So would it be safe to say, that you don't have to be stronger physically, but you should rather have a marathon like stamina?

No
without power, your strokes will be very little threat.
So I think a good idea is, you need to be strong physically + have a marathon like stamina + recover quickly (since there is more and more TT nowadays)
 
This user has no status.
This user has no status.
Well-Known Member
Dec 2017
1,144
619
2,637
No
without power, your strokes will be very little threat.
So I think a good idea is, you need to be strong physically + have a marathon like stamina + recover quickly (since there is more and more TT nowadays)

Yep, I always say it's better to be young, rich and beautiful ... ;)
 
This user has no status.
This user has no status.
Well-Known Member
Sep 2013
7,261
6,232
15,306
Read 3 reviews
My point was, if you can dictate the tempo off the table, like Vladi does with his bh, then you might not be a 'dying breed' at all ...

Vladi is a rare case
1 out of few hundred
Timo Boll is a close to rare case

if the body can hold, fitness is still okay, mentally the player still want to continue - no problem.
But that is going to be minority.

The new ball has changed the game so much.
if we take Japan as an example - how many 22 to 28 year olds are "out of the picture", because the youngsters have taken over. for the womens side, it is almost 100%

Yes, style changes, technical changes, physical training changes, mental changes is all required to survive today with the 40-40+ era.
The same changes was was undergone with every either major rule change, ie service rule, 11point game, 38mm ball.
Obviously the ball change is always the biggest adjustment compared to say a service rule change.
 
This user has no status.
This user has no status.
Well-Known Member
Oct 2016
1,659
1,140
5,311
Like Tony said, Vladi is an exception, in the proximity to a "dying breed". A great bh controlled play style is obviously not enough to win the big titles these days. Vladi often gets destroyed against faster and consistent players today. The irony though, in the 38 mm era the game was faster than today but they dstill didn't get injured the same profound way.

My point was, if you can dictate the tempo off the table, like Vladi does with his bh, then you might not be a 'dying breed' at all ...
 
This user has no status.
This user has no status.
Well-Known Member
Dec 2017
1,144
619
2,637
Like Tony said, Vladi is an exception, in the proximity to a "dying breed". A great bh controlled play style is obviously not enough to win the big titles these days. Vladi often gets destroyed against faster and consistent players today. The irony though, in the 38 mm era the game was faster than today but they dstill didn't get injured the same profound way.

I have the impression, you guys are getting away too easily with this Vladi uniqueness ... ;)
If one was to search throughout the Europe, he/she still would find many over 30 yo wo/men whose performance didn't dropped cause of the 40+ change ...
 
This user has no status.
This user has no status.
Well-Known Member
Sep 2013
7,261
6,232
15,306
Read 3 reviews
Like Tony said, Vladi is an exception, in the proximity to a "dying breed". A great bh controlled play style is obviously not enough to win the big titles these days. Vladi often gets destroyed against faster and consistent players today. The irony though, in the 38 mm era the game was faster than today but they dstill didn't get injured the same profound way.

yeah, I will say Vladi hardly got injured in his career.
his style maybe is not as physical demanding than your full out attackers

and yeah the 38mm era was about speed, and the matches was 21 points etc
but the body wasn't as physical draining as today.

nowadays, our athletes are eating more healthy, have medical staff, but are breaking down more.
imagine if we don't have those resources? we will have more injuries
 
  • Like
Reactions: RidTheKid
This user has no status.
This user has no status.
Well-Known Member
Dec 2017
1,144
619
2,637
yeah, I will say Vladi hardly got injured in his career.
his style maybe is not as physical demanding than your full out attackers

and yeah the 38mm era was about speed, and the matches was 21 points etc
but the body wasn't as physical draining as today.

nowadays, our athletes are eating more healthy, have medical staff, but are breaking down more.
imagine if we don't have those resources? we will have more injuries

Rubbers were not as 'sharp' as today ...
 
  • Like
Reactions: Tony's Table Tennis
Top