3rd ball attack variant

[schrodingerskoalabear]

Usually, whenever I train third ball attack (or open-up), I do backspin balls. Since I serve fast topspin occasionally, I decided, I wanted to practice a third ball attack but with a long topspin serve.

After a few sessions of it, I am not sure if this topspin serve 3rd ball variant is even effective? My training partner after placing the first few serves, started driving wherever he chose (down the line, to my BH, my middle, etc.). And even though I was able to get a bunch of attacks off, I just felt, very unbalanced doing so.

Based on this experience, I have a couple of questions:

1. Am I feeling like this drill doesn't work because (a) my serves were not good enough to restrict the freedom of my partner's shot placements or (b) is this drill just not that effective because good players who know what's coming, can just place long fast spin serves wherever they want?

2. Are there other drills which would help me practice this?

Thanks and keep pongin!

 

[Tyce]

The long fast topspin variant should be a surprise imo. But you can make it side/top to narrow the return

 

[Jslick89]

The long fast topspin variant should be a surprise imo. But you can make it side/top to narrow the return

this......long fast topspin serves are the easiest serves to return if you know thats what you're getting......

 

[TampaBayTableTennis]

ball comes back faster, but sounds like you are on the right track. serve better, get ready faster, be more mindful of the incoming ball to attack. manage distance, timing, spin/speed/power, placement.

probably just more practice, but can set it up - ill do fast serve here, you return here, i attack there... with more or less restrictions. or just serve with goal to attack, and receiver's goal is to not let you (forced to serve better and more flexible with next shot)

 

[suds79]

Usually, whenever I train third ball attack (or open-up), I do backspin balls. Since I serve fast topspin occasionally, I decided, I wanted to practice a third ball attack but with a long topspin serve.

Feel like you just answered your own question or should be able to see the flaw in it.

So you practice your 3rd ball vs this one type of ball. Sounds like backspin. Then you do topspin balls and the opponent smokes it at you and you can't 3rd ball winner like you're wanting because they're getting in 1st.

- 1. If you practice open ups vs backspin, it stands to reason that you should generally serve some variant (side/back, pure back, sometimes no-spin hoping for a pop-up) of backspin anticipating that a lot of times it'll get pushed. Then you 3rd ball. Do what you practice.

- 2. A topspin serve should be a surprise serve. We're talking a very small percentage of the time type of serve because yeah if they predict this coming, they'll get in first. I guess I'll say this in what I'd expect with a 3rd ball attack off a topspin serve. Whenever you do some sort of topspin serve, be ready for an attack back just in case they're ready. Furthermore, when you get into it, (and this could vary with style) but I've found your 3rd ball will be different here compared to what you practice. So while vs backspin you're looking to loop, in this case the ball will already have a lot of topspin on it. Your serve, they counter back. You don't need to juice up the ball with even more spin in a loop. That's an easy way to send it long. The ball will probably be fast & spiny enough already. You're looking to drive here with placement to win your point or get into the rally with hopefully some sort of advantage. So your 3rd ball here is a good drive. Not loop. At least for me that's how I'd approach it. It's kinda like the warmup counter driving the ball back & forth before a match. That's the type of return you'll get. So an ever slightly more speed version of that is what i'd be looking to execute. (I also hope your topspin serve is some sort of side/top. I can't really remember the last time I did a pure topspin serve. Again could be style but for me the change up is a side/top version. IMO it's more effective, harder to return and should look at least somewhat like your side/back version of your serve.)

- 3. Lastly it sounds like you're just playing a match vs your opponent and he's trying to win the point. Stuff you want to practice you should practice 1st. Get a solid idea of what you want to do. Then take it to a match. Doesn't help you to want to practice this one type of 3rd ball if your opponent isn't making for good practice because he or she is playing like it's a match. Some time while practicing, ask your partner if they will help you train X skill whatever it is you want to work on.

 

[schrodingerskoalabear]

ball comes back faster, but sounds like you are on the right track. serve better, get ready faster, be more mindful of the incoming ball to attack. manage distance, timing, spin/speed/power, placement.

probably just more practice, but can set it up - ill do fast serve here, you return here, i attack there... with more or less restrictions. or just serve with goal to attack, and receiver's goal is to not let you (forced to serve better and more flexible with next shot)

Some time while practicing, ask your partner if they will help you train X skill whatever it is you want to work on.

I guess the fault was allowing my partner to hit full rein; I have become decent enough to do backspin open-up drills (where opponent pushes FH or BH) and so thought I could do topspin serves the same way. Big mistake!

So what I am getting from all these helpful responses, maybe it is still worth sticking with the drill (topspin/side serve) but with some restrictions. i.e. either asking partner to just block/ or drive in one spot. And then training one spot at a time. I agree with @TampaBayTableTennis , this is the first time I did the drill so I was not used to the speed of the return; it's useful to get used to that pace as well.

 

[TampaBayTableTennis]

if u practice some half-long sidespin/side-topspin serves, the return will not be quite as fast, but you will still get chances to deal with the different spins to attack as well.

 

[blahness]

If the guy can return whatever, it means the quality of the serve is not enough. Also after long fast topspin serves you need to take a step back from the table and be prepared to engage in 2 wing topspin battle. It cannot be just using FH whole table.

Also you need to think short stroke focusing on placement not big af movement loops. For eg, I serve fast topspin to their wide BH, they loop and then I fade counter it to their wide FH to gain a decisive advantage, this is also an effective 3rd ball attack. It doesn't need to be a big ass loop with full body rotation.

This (long fast serves to wide BH, but with wildly varying spin) is actually what I use a lot against penholders especially if they don't have RPB (or have a weak RPB).

 

[sawbz]

for me, i only choose to do this to surprise the opponent once or twice in a set max if he's good at countering otherwise im cooked and its rly ineffective at the upper level. like @blahness said long top on bh, take a step back and rip the next ball on the far left fh, buttttt if he's good at countering, body shots at the elbow n if it comes back its usually gonna be in the middle and u kill the 5th ball or place it.
someone told me to focus on spin and placing the ball close to the net rather than ripping it at the edge, they gonna get uncomfortable with the variation and it worked for me