5 ply blades - a few observations on my three..

[Wrighty67]

I have, over the past couple of months, been playing with a slower blade and rubbers in an attempt to work on my technical abilities better - something that I have to say I recommend wholeheartedly as the loss of speed has been minimal but the increase in confidence and consistency has been marked..

I have been lucky enough to have three 5 ply blades to try, and thought it may be of some use to share my rather non-technical observations of these in case it benefits anybody considering one or other.

My blades are a Violin (large straight handle) a Butterfly Falcima and a Xiom Off S (both flared) - weight of all of them is 87/88g. Frequencies are;

1. Violin : 1148
2. Falcima : 1380
3. Off S : 1377

All were paired with the same rubbers - Rozena max both sides.

The Violin is noticeably harder in feel but also slightly more flexible than the others - it is obviously slower too, but not to the extent that it feels in any way sluggish and still has plenty of power when looping or smashing. I like the large straight handle on this one better than any previous Nittaku handles (small and large flared) but I still prefer a larger flared handle such as the Off S. The Violin is a beautifully crafted blade and very well balanced - if it has a failing for me it is that the flex makes it a little harder to block and the hardness in combination with the flex needs some adjustment.

The Falcima is (I am pretty sure) a Koto outer and feels stiffer than the Violin as well as crisp (like a Viscaria feels in some ways - direct) The handle is typical, slightly small, Butterfly flared but is very comfortable. The blade is also well balanced and easy to control. It feels to me the fastest of the three and I was quite surprised just how much speed it offered for a 5 ply wood blade (Certainly feels faster than Korbel/Primorac) It pairs well with the Rozena rubbers and makes for a very good all round offensive set up, that could be upgraded with Tenergy or similar as you progress.

The Off s is the cheapest of the three by some margin (50% of the Falcima and 23% of the Violin) so in my view is very good value. Build quality and finish may not quite match the Falcima and certainly not the Violin, but it is pretty good regardless. It has a Limba outer ply, which to me lends it a really nice feel on impact which is slightly more muted and softer than either of the others. I feel it is also better at blocking safely and pushing short. Balance is great and for me, the handle is really nice (but it is quite wide and flat and so may not suit everyone)

The truth is that I could happily play with any of these and not feel in any way seriously compromised - they are all great blades and all suit my offensive, spin focused style very well. That having been said, the one I feel most comfortable with is the Off S - I just find that the feel it gives me generates confidence and a willingness to commit to shots such as looping vs underspin or short touches (both of which are a challenge for me in matches)

Not what I expected - if you had asked me beforehand I would have thought that the slower Violin would have met those requirements best, but I had underestimated how hard it feels on impact compared to the others.

Happy to answer any questions and hope this is of some limited use to anybody looking for an all wood 5 ply (It might save you some money ;-)

 

[hclnnkhg]

Since the violin is a OFF- blade back in speed glue Era, it is not surprising that it is the slowest of all three.

I have a Banda Virgo which I believe is a 38mm Era ALL blade, and that is SLOW...

 

[turbozed]

I'm kinda going through the same thing as you after playing with the Nittaku Acoustic, Yasaka Sweden Extra, and Sanwei Fextra 7.

Acoustic's small handle and how it moves around in my hand made it very inconsistent and unpredictable. When it was working for me, the feel was great. I really wanted this to be my blade for the long run because it exudes quality.

Thought lack of control could be due to the speed so I downgraded to Yasaka Sweden Extra. YSE feels slow and dead in comparison to the Acoustic. Maybe it's a poor match with harder tacky rubbers. Went back to Acoustic within a few weeks.

With the Acoustic I've tried all sorts of stuff. Grip tape, two layers of grip tape, half grip tape, different sizes of weighted tape... All with the goal of increasing the stability in my hand.

Decided to just glue some rubbers on the Fextra and am really liking it after just a couple sessions with it. Looks like I'm going to be playing with this $20 blade instead of the YSE that costs 2x and the Acoustic that costs 6x as much.

My Fextra (83g, 1290 hz) is somehow more stable, more controlled, and faster than the other blades. Blocking and finding the table is automatic. It's incredible how much finding a comfortable grip really improves everything. My backhand improved immediately. My FH/BH transitions feel better too. Also makes a nice firecracker sound when I hit the ball super hard.

If you ever get a chance, try this thing. I'd love to hear your thoughts on how it compares to the 5 ply blades you've tried here.

 

[Headbeancounter]

Wouldn't a 7 ply all wood blade be faster? I have played with Stiga Allround Classic and it was so slow that I couldn't generate any power at all, I simply stopped playing with it, I know a lot might have to do with my poor techniques, but it was just painful.

 

[Wrighty67]

I'm kinda going through the same thing as you after playing with the Nittaku Acoustic, Yasaka Sweden Extra, and Sanwei Fextra 7.

Acoustic's small handle and how it moves around in my hand made it very inconsistent and unpredictable. When it was working for me, the feel was great. I really wanted this to be my blade for the long run because it exudes quality.

Thought lack of control could be due to the speed so I downgraded to Yasaka Sweden Extra. YSE feels slow and dead in comparison to the Acoustic. Maybe it's a poor match with harder tacky rubbers. Went back to Acoustic within a few weeks.

With the Acoustic I've tried all sorts of stuff. Grip tape, two layers of grip tape, half grip tape, different sizes of weighted tape... All with the goal of increasing the stability in my hand.

Decided to just glue some rubbers on the Fextra and am really liking it after just a couple sessions with it. Looks like I'm going to be playing with this $20 blade instead of the YSE that costs 2x and the Acoustic that costs 6x as much.

My Fextra (83g, 1290 hz) is somehow more stable, more controlled, and faster than the other blades. Blocking and finding the table is automatic. It's incredible how much finding a comfortable grip really improves everything. My backhand improved immediately. My FH/BH transitions feel better too. Also makes a nice firecracker sound when I hit the ball super hard.

If you ever get a chance, try this thing. I'd love to hear your thoughts on how it compares to the 5 ply blades you've tried here.

I had the same issue with a small flare Violin and also a large handle flare Acoustic - the straight in large size is the best yet and made quite a difference (apparently they have stopped making them for some reason)

Fextra sounds like a winner..

 

[turbozed]

I had the same issue with a small flare Violin and also a large handle flare Acoustic - the straight in large size is the best yet and made quite a difference (apparently they have stopped making them for some reason)

Fextra sounds like a winner..

I'm really interested in the Acoustic in the SG handle since I still like everything else about the Acoustic except for the grip. But I've learned my lesson and am not going to spend $120+ on a blade until I've actually felt it in my hand.

The great thing about the Fextra being so cheap is I can buy a couple of them and then get a bit more adventurous with the sanding to get things perfect. Won't feel quite nearly as bad ruining a $20 blade. Also a good cheap way to test different rubbers by switching between setups on multiple blades.

 

[S-Pin]

I'm kinda going through the same thing as you after playing with the Nittaku Acoustic, Yasaka Sweden Extra, and Sanwei Fextra 7.

Acoustic's small handle and how it moves around in my hand made it very inconsistent and unpredictable. When it was working for me, the feel was great. I really wanted this to be my blade for the long run because it exudes quality.

Thought lack of control could be due to the speed so I downgraded to Yasaka Sweden Extra. YSE feels slow and dead in comparison to the Acoustic. Maybe it's a poor match with harder tacky rubbers. Went back to Acoustic within a few weeks.

With the Acoustic I've tried all sorts of stuff. Grip tape, two layers of grip tape, half grip tape, different sizes of weighted tape... All with the goal of increasing the stability in my hand.

Decided to just glue some rubbers on the Fextra and am really liking it after just a couple sessions with it. Looks like I'm going to be playing with this $20 blade instead of the YSE that costs 2x and the Acoustic that costs 6x as much.

My Fextra (83g, 1290 hz) is somehow more stable, more controlled, and faster than the other blades. Blocking and finding the table is automatic. It's incredible how much finding a comfortable grip really improves everything. My backhand improved immediately. My FH/BH transitions feel better too. Also makes a nice firecracker sound when I hit the ball super hard.

If you ever get a chance, try this thing. I'd love to hear your thoughts on how it compares to the 5 ply blades you've tried here.

I have a 84g Fextra7 and it's a wonderful blade, with great feel, speed, excellent handle and balance. Combination with 2 mm Rakza 10 is magical. For 20USD it's a steal. Of all blades I tried the feel is second to Acoustic only and maybe Stiga Azalea.
I have a 84 g Yasaka Sweden Extra - it's a great blade but it is indeed very unoffensive and much slower compared to Fextra.
I also have a 89g Violin/G1 which I don't really like because of its hardness. It's fun to hit the ball with, as G-1 is quite aggressive with a nasty kick, but I don't like this blade in matches.
And finally I have 3 Acoustics: a 79g Reg FL, a 84 g SG FL Special and a 90g LG FL. All with Rakza 7.
The light Reg FL is super controlled and very easy to play with, but not fast enough away from the table. The handle is annoyingly thin and it's head heavy with a heavy rubber like Rakza.
The 90g LG plays very differently, it's very fast, stable, there's less feel, but it's a bliss at mid/far distance. A powerfull weapon at my level. The handle is a bit too thick for me though, the balance is very good. Not as easy to manoeuvre close to the table against a fast opponent and you need to be careful not to overhit if your technique is not top notch.
95% of the time I'm playing with my 84g SG, which is somewhere in between FL and LG FL, has the best balance of these 3, enough power and great control as well. The handle feels a bit like Nittaku ST a bit, with the flare on the end.

 

[turbozed]

I have a 84g Fextra7 and it's a wonderful blade, with great feel, speed, excellent handle and balance. Combination with 2 mm Rakza 10 is magical. For 20USD it's steal. Of all blades I tried the fell is second to Acoustic only and maybe Stiga Azalea.
I have a 84 g Yasaka Sweden Extra - it's a great blade but it is indeed very unoffensive and much slower compared to Fextra.
I also have a 89g Violin/G1 which I don't really like because of its hardness. It's fun to hit the ball with, as G-1 is quite aggressive with a nasty kick, but I don't like this blade in matches.
And finally I have 3 Acoustics: a 79g Reg FL, a 84 g SG FL Special and a 90g LG FL. All with Rakza 7.
The light Reg FL is super controlled and very easy to play with, but not fast enough away from the table. The handle is annoyingly thin and it's head heavy with a heavy rubber like Rakza.
The 90g LG plays very differently, is' very fast, stable, there's less feel, but it's a bliss at mid/far distance. A powerfull weapon at my level. The handle is a bit too thick to me though, albeit the balance is very good. Not as easy to manoeuvre close to the table against a fast opponent and you need to be careful not to overhit if your technique is not top notch.
95% of the time I'm playing with my 84g SG, which is somewhere in between FL and LG FL, has the best balance of these 3, enough power and great control as well. The handle feels a bit like Nittaku ST a bit, with the flair on the end.

Right when I've got my mind set on sticking with the Fextra, you are making it hard to resist trying out the Acoustic SG.

Can you compare the handle of the SG to the Fextra and the YSE? The Fextra handle is great, but I guess it could be a bit slimmer for my taste where the flare meets my palm. I'm guessing the LG handle is even bigger than the Fextra (in which case that would be too thick for me as well).

The thing I'm really loving about the grip on the Fextra is how stable it is when I hold it for a BH. How does the SG compare in this regard?

Sorry for all the questions but you seem like the ideal person to ask about the SG! 🙏

 

[Wrighty67]

Right when I've got my mind set on sticking with the Fextra, you are making it hard to resist trying out the Acoustic SG.

Can you compare the handle of the SG to the Fextra and the YSE? The Fextra handle is great, but I guess it could be a bit slimmer for my taste where the flare meets my palm. I'm guessing the LG handle is even bigger than the Fextra (in which case that would be too thick for me as well).

The thing I'm really loving about the grip on the Fextra is how stable it is when I hold it for a BH. How does the SG compare in this regard?

Sorry for all the questions but you seem like the ideal person to ask about the SG! 🙏

The LG flared handle is not large - the straight is bigger and chunkier.

 

[Wrighty67]

I'm really interested in the Acoustic in the SG handle since I still like everything else about the Acoustic except for the grip. But I've learned my lesson and am not going to spend $120+ on a blade until I've actually felt it in my hand.

The great thing about the Fextra being so cheap is I can buy a couple of them and then get a bit more adventurous with the sanding to get things perfect. Won't feel quite nearly as bad ruining a $20 blade. Also a good cheap way to test different rubbers by switching between setups on multiple blades.

I have a used Korbel SK7 coming in so I am keen to see how that feels as a 7 ply vs all my 5 ply.

 

[NextLevel]

A part of me wants to issue the standard advice against EJing, but EJing is cheaper than buying cars or gambling debt - have fun!

 

[S-Pin]

Right when I've got my mind set on sticking with the Fextra, you are making it hard to resist trying out the Acoustic SG.

Can you compare the handle of the SG to the Fextra and the YSE? The Fextra handle is great, but I guess it could be a bit slimmer for my taste where the flare meets my palm. I'm guessing the LG handle is even bigger than the Fextra (in which case that would be too thick for me as well).

The thing I'm really loving about the grip on the Fextra is how stable it is when I hold it for a BH. How does the SG compare in this regard?

Sorry for all the questions but you seem like the ideal person to ask about the SG! 🙏

They are pretty much similar in size, the difference being more about the shape.
With all Acoustic FL handles you don't feel much flare compared to other brands.

With SG FL the flare is not as pronounced as with Fextra or YSE.
Compared to Fextra, SG feels a bit fatter/rounder and more straight, with less flare. (SG is 2 mm fatter at the end with almost similar width).

Fextra handle gets a bit wider at the neck unlike SG which again has more straight/round feeling.
Fextra feels a bit chunkier at both ends and a bit slimmer in the middle, while SG feels a bit more chunky in the middle section of the handle.
It's all very personal, but I prefer Fextra handle for FH and SG for BH as it is easier to change the angle due to its rounder shape. Saying that I am perfectly happy with either.
LG FL feels even more chunky and straight than SG, with even less flare.

To me Fextra handle feels more like SG than YSE, which is thinner and closer to Acoustic Reg FL albeit with more pronounced flare.

I attach a photo (left to right): LG, SG, Fextra, YSE, Reg Fl. Please note that the proportions are not 100% correct as the blades are stacked and not in parallel and also due to the lense distortion.
Hope it helps.

 

[Brs]

... EJing is cheaper than buying cars or gambling debt ...

Unless you are Tommy Zai, the unstoppable EJ madman!

 

[turbozed]

They are pretty much similar in size, the difference being more about the shape.
With SG FL the flair is not as pronounced as with Fextra or YSE.
Compared to Fextra, SG feels a bit fatter/rounder and more straight, with less flair. (SG is 2 mm fatter at the end with almost similar width).
Fextra handle gets a bit wider at the neck unlike SG which again has more straight/round feeling.
Fextra feels a bit chunkier at both ends and a bit slimmer in the middle, while SG feels a bit more chunky in the middle section of the handle.
It's all very personal, but I prefer Fextra handle for FH and SG for BH as it is easier to change the angle due to its rounder shape. Saying that I am perfectly happy with either.
LG FL feels even more chunky and straight than SG.
To me Fextra handle feels much like SG than to YSE, which is thinner and more similar to Acoustic Reg FL albeit with more pronounced flair.
I attach a photo - it's left to right: LG, SG, Fextra, YSE, Reg Fl. Please note that the proportions are not 100% right as the blades are stacked and not in parallel and also due to the sense distortion. Hope it helps.

I couldn't have asked for a better comparison. Thank you kindly for taking the time to answer my questions. From your description and from the pictures it really seems like the SG handle is very similar to the Fextra.

The thumbrest on the SG looks like it has a more gentle taper as well. Which might be a good thing as I've considered sanding that part down a little bit since it's a bit thick there.

I'll probably wind up selling my regular Acoustic and picking up the SG if it goes on sale in the future. For now I'll just be the guy using super cheap blades and rubbers and see how far that takes me.

Cheers and thanks again 👍

 

[S-Pin]

I couldn't have asked for a better comparison. Thank you kindly for taking the time to answer my questions. From your description and from the pictures it really seems like the SG handle is very similar to the Fextra.

The thumbrest on the SG looks like it has a more gentle taper as well. Which might be a good thing as I've considered sanding that part down a little bit since it's a bit thick there.

I'll probably wind up selling my regular Acoustic and picking up the SG if it goes on sale in the future. For now I'll just be the guy using super cheap blades and rubbers and see how far that takes me.

Cheers and thanks again 👍

You're welcome. And obviously it's not flair but flare, but I think you've guessed it )) I've corrected it in my post. Even though both blades have enough flair as well. ))

 

[P1ngP0ng3r]

I'm a fan of 5-ply all wood blades myself. I recently switched back from Viscaria to my good old Infinity VPS. With a 5-ply blade, you loose some speed and the crispiness of a carbon blade, but the gain in control and consistency easily outweighs that. I truly believe that there are many players using a carbon blade, while their performance would increase using an all-wood blade.

offtopic: After many tests, I came to the conclusion I prefer Limba as outer ply. There is just 1 blade left on my wish list to try: Tibhar Shang Kun AC.

Edit: typo

 

[IB66]

A part of me wants to issue the standard advice against EJing, but EJing is cheaper than buying cars or gambling debt - have fun!

Now the season has all but finished, 1 match to play tomorrow, the EJ ing is kicking in!!! R48 and Barracuda on match blade, and tonight Glazer and Glazer 09C on a spare!!!

 

[IB66]

You guys should get Sergio (SDC) to make a bespoke clone or 2 for you.
custom handle to your requirements, weight to your requirements, size, balance etc etc
If you get some spare cash, I’d go for it!!

 

[lodro]

I truly believe that there are many players using a carbon blade, while their performance would increase using an all-wood blade.

I do hear you clearly and "kinda" agree with you, with one reservation, when using a carbo/kev inner layer blade we can achieve not only the "woody feel" but get a greater sweetspot , also , yes, Limba is preferable as the outer layer .

 

[NextLevel]

I'm a fan of 5-ply all wood blades myself. I recently switched back from Viscaria to my good old Infinity VPS. With a 5-ply blade, you loose some speed and the crispiness of a carbon blade, but the gain in control and consistency easily outweighs that. I truly believe that there are many players using a carbon blade, while their performance would increase using an all-wood blade.

offtopic: After many tests, I came to the conclusion I prefer Limba as outer ply. There is just 1 blade left on my wish list to try: Tibhar Shang Kun AC.

Edit: typo

I can't play with hard outer plies as comfortably as I do with softer ones - limba and Hinoki over the others

I honestly think that othe than finding outer and inner plies you like, EJing in the same blade speed class is largely a waste of time. Unless the feeling of what you are using is terrible, your brain becomes bored over time even when it is great. So just train until the equipment feels like your right hand. Do a lot (and I mean a lot) of target practice.

Handle shape and grip are probably the most important aspects of comfort with a blade and unfortunately the least studied.

The current blade on my list is the Joola Vzaryz Trinity. It is my attempt to quell my desire for the Mizutani SZLC - that said. I would gladly get a backup Innerforce T5000 if they still sold it. I suspect it will all be a hopeless failure but one can only wish.