Advice for my terrible receive

[TensorBackhand]

Just a few points from warm up game, but its clear as day how bad I am at receiving good serves. I feel like if i could improve this one single area, I would make a huge leap actually.

I can't read the spin, I choose the wrong receive, I whiff the ball, Im just not confident in this area. Please give advice. Should I just be hard-looping every one of these? If it looks like I am hesitant and pulling my shot, that's because I am. I have no idea what spin is on every one of these serves, so I'm hesitant to touch the ball. As soon as I contact the ball, it goes off in a different direction than I'm expecting.

I know @UpSideDownCarl talked a lot about looping early and looping the serve, but in this video I just can't execute it because I'm very unsure about the spin, or sometimes unsure about the length. Also I feel I have a bit more time to loop on the FH, but the serve is coming in too fast on my BH to loop.

 

[lodro]

very simple : Wrong shoes 🤣

but really:
Have you got 20/20 vision ?
Are your eyes watching the server ?
Is the data that your eyes see traveling
fast enough through your optic nerve to your brain ?
Is your brain evaluating the data fast enough?
Is the brain evaluating the data correctly?
Is the brain passing the correctly evaluated data fast enough to your body parts?
Are your body parts reacting correctly to the data provided by the brain ?
Are the body parts reacting fast enough ?

You are lucky, this is free advise , I normally charge $ 185 / hour.

life is hard 🤣

 

[Gozo Aruna]

The server is @VictorMoraga , nuff said.

I give 50% discount; $ 92.50/ hr TTD member price.

 

[blahness]

The server is really testing your footwork in this clip and you have been found wanting. I do the same thing too - i serve a lot of wide angles interspersed with long fast serves.

One thing is that you lunge way too slow and also the range is also way too short.

You should be able to lunge at least 2/3 table width with a single step imo.

You can practice lunging at home away from the table so it is quite convenient.

Lunge with left leg towards left (directly into your BH backswing position), and then lunge with right leg towards the right (directly into your FH backswing position).

Also really you need to lunge into the table too for short serve receive. You're still standing way too upright with the short receive which is why it is not dangerous enough. It's not about bending at the knees but much more at the hips that you're lacking. If you have more forward lean your body is closer to the ball and you can use your body to control the ball which will increase your receive quality significantly (regardless of whether you are pushing or flicking or sideswiping etc....).

One more thing is do not compromise on the forward lean after you have made the shot. Maintain it when doing your recovery footwork. Sometimes you make a good shot but bomb the next because you got lazy and went back upright.

 

[Robin0910]

I know the angle of the camera and yours are not the same but from this angle I could easily guess all the spin from how the bat was at the contact point or what the follow up was like. Also, at the end he kept spamming side-top cause it worked perfectly against you. At this level players will keep serving the same if it works instead of varying it again because it simply works.
Also, please change your shoes. Even slippers would be better than those.
Nevertheless, if you can’t decide and the serve is slow you can check how the ball spins or what the first bounce is like. If it’s fast long, it’s all about the contact point and the follow-up. And look for subtleties that each player has when they serve.
He’s also left handed so if you can’t see the contact point clearly step a bit more to the right.
Keep working on it, practice makes perfect.

 

[RefereeNumber2]

When I'm receiving well, I've noticed I'm not focusing much on trying to consciously read the spin on the serve. I'm looking more at the big picture, i.e., the server's motion as well as the speed, placement and trajectory of the ball. When I'm processing all of that subconsciously, I'll also be moving faster and producing higher quality returns even if I couldn't tell you exactly how I'm reading the serve (and even if I sometimes wouldn't be able to say what spin is on it).

When I truly have no clue (often, early in a match against an unfamiliar serve), I default to this strategy:

I've found that focusing on decoding the spin on each serve before starting my return just slows me down too much, and I end up being too passive. I've had more success by worrying less about spin and focusing more on moving well to return and closely following the trajectory of the ball.

All that said, serve receive is one of the hardest parts of the game for me so I'm also interested in anyone else's thoughts.

 

[K.K]

just let the ball bounce.
you are too rushed with receiving and your standing position is too close to the table plus too much in the middle. he basically never played on single short ball, so no need to stand to close and you should always adapt your standing position based on the serves you get. yes the person is left handed, put you still shouldn't stand in the middle because it is way harder to play in the far backhand then move in the forehand (if you let the ball bounce ofc)

his serves where tricky because he hid his paddle for a long time behind his back, so another good reason to let the ball come to you. the spin will be less and you have more time to read it.

PS: i would also advice you to take yourself more time before you serve, too. think about your serve placement and your 3rd ball before you serve.

PPS: put away the knee sleeves and get yourself proper tabletennis shoes. your knees will thank you later

 

[lodro]

PS: i would also advice you to take yourself more time before you serve, too. think about your serve placement and your 3rd ball before you serve

Top advise this.

 

[Takkyu_wa_inochi]

Just a few points from warm up game, but its clear as day how bad I am at receiving good serves. I feel like if i could improve this one single area, I would make a huge leap actually.

I can't read the spin, I choose the wrong receive, I whiff the ball, Im just not confident in this area. Please give advice. Should I just be hard-looping every one of these? If it looks like I am hesitant and pulling my shot, that's because I am. I have no idea what spin is on every one of these serves, so I'm hesitant to touch the ball. As soon as I contact the ball, it goes off in a different direction than I'm expecting.

I know @UpSideDownCarl talked a lot about looping early and looping the serve, but in this video I just can't execute it because I'm very unsure about the spin, or sometimes unsure about the length. Also I feel I have a bit more time to loop on the FH, but the serve is coming in too fast on my BH to loop.

View attachment 32127

Many things to say:

- if you want receive advice edit the video so we can see you receiving only. One could think you’re the red guy. Why not use PInghero.ai

- change your shoes they seem very heavy

- I think you’re not relaxed enough and think you need power to receive and then to generate that power you think you need a big swing.
This is wrong. IMO a short swing is generally preferable. You don’t need the whole arm. Only the forearm. And it’s preferable to use the wrist more. It will give you more control.

- the guy is a leftie. Against lefties I stand at 1/3 of the table on the left side. But my RIGHT foot is in front not the left one as « usual ». Against a fast serve down the line on your BH where you have less time to react it gives you a little bit more space in case you were not quick enough. You’d take the ball not in front of you which is not ideal but more chance to get it back. In case you do BH topspin you can use the hip rotation more easily with this stance. Against the down the line pendulum serve from leftie important to contact the ball on the left side.

- your footwork is slow when he serves wide to the FH. Try moving a bit the left leg before the right leg. Having the right leg in front will help you get close to the ball faster

- don’t panic you have more time than you think. If you’re late to the ball don’t try something stupid but just put it back on the table where he doesn’t expect it and/or with as much spin that you can.

 

[pong99]

 

[Gozo Aruna]

• Recently I watched and paid attention to Lily Zhang and Hugo C doing their receiving ritual.
• Getting really low, feet really wide apart, eye is at the net level.
• I thought, wow! It looks so cool.
• Let me imitate them coz' I want to look so cool like Lily & Hugo.
• After doing it for a while, I realized that I see better the contact point and this improves my guestimate.
• In short, I suxs less at receiving serves. So, now I look cool and I suxs less! Yay! Lily & Hugo, I luv you guys!
• Now, my knees hurt. Ouch!

 

[canonFH]

There are 2-3 videos on this by Fang Yinchi I think from Fang Bo's Quanshibao classroom. That is the best video series I have ever seen on the technicals of table tennis. I would recommend watching it. As other people have written, your footwork needs improvement.

I am pretty bad a receiving myself, so I usually lose the first game of most matches, but I try to remember all the serves of an opponent. He got you multiple times on the bh long serve, so maybe try to make a mental note of that.

If I'm having trouble with long serves, I stand one step back from the table and just focus on keeping it on the table first. For short serves, I'll take two short steps forward.

I would also rather send a quality chop back on a long serve rather than a low quality topspin. Maybe try a chop-block when you are rushed? Or just a long push once in a while? Keeping ball on the table is underrated imo.

I used to play long pips so my chop blocks are pretty good. In fact, on long fast serves on bh, I prefer chop blocks. People are not used to them and sometimes are caught hesitating. Chops block with inverted rubbers can also be very deceptive if you take it on the bounce, which you are in a position to on a long serve.


On a side note, your serves are too high. You can just ignore receives for now and put more work on your serves so that your matches become a serve-off.

 

[Der_Echte]

Maybe you struggle on serve receive against players other than this one... so I would understand why you made this thread.

In this vid, you opponent is doing exactly what a many levels higher opponent should do and there are very good reasons why you struggle in many areas.

When I did see you in this vid not rush anything, you returned it consistent and were able to make a good BH medium topspin that somehow troubled him and you scored on nearly all of those rallies.

Maybe not worry too much is the best thing right now for match performance... and work on the suggestions when not in a match or use the matches at the club to practice these.

On a short serve, be brave and get to the bounce... you will see the ball better... and have a loose grip, it will eat spin better... and do not use much of the arm for a swing if any... move into the bounce of ball stepping under the table with right leg and have a compressed arm early on... extend arm if needed to meet a shorter ball, but try to keep arm compressed (with elbow a little to side and a little in front) and get there with your leg and hip. Arm swings will kill you here. You get spin from taking ball on rise soon after bounce, whether that is a short push or a fast deep push. short push takes zero to little arm or wrist swing, like zero to an inch... deep fast push can be a few inches max - that is all that is needed... more swing is less in terms of control and results here.

On a longer deep serve, do not panic, get your position with a tiny step if ball is coming near you and go down and up with the ball. (hips and bat are going down as ball goes down and up as ball comes up...) use a shorter swing and some lower arm and come up and forward - do not go for broke, keep grip loose early on and when more confident and when you can get ball into strike zone use more grip. Overswinging when not on time will kill you... get ball into strike zone. Less swing is more. More advantageous to you. A compact swing to ball in the strike zone counts a lot. Do not go for too much - shorten up loosen up use legs hips down and up and use lower arm some - a little wrist - do not overdo anything early on.

As already said, this is a long process to develop and improve... frustrating as all letout and we all struggle on this important part of TT.

 

[Amayzde]

Well Victor isn't just any server, so it is not a shame you are having a hard time recieving against him. Also he is a lefty, so this makes the angles you have to cover wider.

But since you asked for advice I will give you some insight of the things that I noticed. And they all have to do with just 2 things.

Okay, so a little puzzlez to start things off:

What do all the pictures below have in common?

Any guesses?

Okay okay, dont worry. I will give you the answer already: Your feet are in the wrong position(!).

Something else? Your center of gravity is too high, a.k.a. you are standing too upright.

Before we do anything with the serve we have to get these things right. Because we can have he best forehand or backhand in the world. If our feet don't get in the right position, then we can't use proper technique. So;

1. Get lower and more foreward posture when playing. Especially the foreward posture will automaticly create more space on your backhand.

Look at this picture, how are you going to get a proper backswing for the backhand?

Standing deeper and more foreward also makes moving fast in any direction faster. Since you r center of gravity will be lower to the ground you have better balance.

2. Move thowards the ball first first, swing later(!). If you move thowards the ball first, you will be amazed at how much time you have to push short, push long, flick, pick-up half long.

Because if you reach for the ball first like this picture, all you can do now is flick. Although this wasn't really a flick. It was more like a gentle return, almost asking Victor "please, finish me".

Just as a comparison, watch Victor recieve on the short forehand. You can see he is so close to the ball, he can touch it with his arm still bend at 90°.

For the 'swing later' part, I have to show you this picture. On first glance it doesn't look like anything bad, right?

From a left-to-right moving perspective you position is quite good here. But your backswing is ready too early, and also too long. What could possibly be wrong with being ready too early?

1. Being ready too early can throw off your timing. I go by the rule "follow the ball with your sternum". And in this picture your sternum is pointed approx 30° behind the ball.

2. And when we have 'too much time' we usually use a longer backswing. Because what else do we do with this extra time, right? Might as well wind it up as much as possible. But you didn't judge the length of the ball correctly. Now you are commited to this long backswing and you can't adjust.

Using a shorter backswing will fix alot of timing issues on the forehand. This would have been long enough;

So just to recap this post:

1. Get lower and more foreward during play.

2. Move your feet (and get close to the ball) first, swing later.

3. Don't use an over excessive long backswing.

(4. Please don't take this post the negative way. I know am a very critical and nit-picky person. I realise this can sometimes come across as overly negetive, but my intentions are to help you become better).

 

[TensorBackhand]

Well Victor isn't just any server, so it is not a shame you are having a hard time recieving against him. Also he is a lefty, so this makes the angles you have to cover wider.

But since you asked for advice I will give you some insight of the things that I noticed. And they all have to do with just 2 things.

Okay, so a little puzzlez to start things off:

What do all the pictures below have in common?
View attachment 32130
View attachment 32131
View attachment 32132
View attachment 32133

Any guesses?

Okay okay, dont worry. I will give you the answer already: Your feet are in the wrong position(!).

Something else? Your center of gravity is too high, a.k.a. you are standing too upright.

Before we do anything with the serve we have to get these things right. Because we can have he best forehand or backhand in the world. If our feet don't get in the right position, then we can't use proper technique. So;

1. Get lower and more foreward posture when playing. Especially the foreward posture will automaticly create more space on your backhand.

Look at this picture, how are you going to get a proper backswing for the backhand?
View attachment 32134

Standing deeper and more foreward also makes moving fast in any direction faster. Since you r center of gravity will be lower to the ground you have better balance.

2. Move thowards the ball first first, swing later(!). If you move thowards the ball first, you will be amazed at how much time you have to push short, push long, flick, pick-up half long.

Because if you reach for the ball first like this picture, all you can do now is flick. Although this wasn't really a flick. It was more like a gentle return, almost asking Victor "please, finish me".
View attachment 32135

Just as a comparison, watch Victor recieve on the short forehand. You can see he is so close to the ball, he can touch it with his arm still bend at 90°.
View attachment 32137

For the 'swing later' part, I have to show you this picture. On first glance it doesn't look like anything bad, right?
View attachment 32138

From a left-to-right moving perspective you position is quite good here. But your backswing is ready too early, and also too long. What could possibly be wrong with being ready too early?

1. Being ready too early can throw off your timing. I go by the rule "follow the ball with your sternum". And in this picture your sternum is pointed approx 30° behind the ball.

2. And when we have 'too much time' we usually use a longer backswing. Because what else do we do with this extra time, right? Might as well wind it up as much as possible. But you didn't judge the length of the ball correctly. Now you are commited to this long backswing and you can't adjust.

Using a shorter backswing will fix alot of timing issues on the forehand. This would have been long enough;
View attachment 32140


So just to recap this post:

1. Get lower and more foreward during play.

2. Move your feet (and get close to the ball) first, swing later.

3. Don't use an over excessive long backswing.

(4. Please don't take this post the negative way. I know am a very critical and nit-picky person. I realise this can sometimes come across as overly negetive, but my intentions are to help you become better).

Thanks for the detail. You're right I think I take a huge lunging step into a shot rather than tiny steps to get into position.

 

[Tyce]

I see a lot of good advice already, here's something else:

your receives aren't "terrible". Stop putting yourself down like that, it's absolutely uncalled for. You are having trouble executing something that you're trying to learn, against a player who is clearly completely in control and leagues above you.
This is good! Try it, keep trying it, especially in situations like this. Nothing to lose, a lot of opportunity to learn.

..but yeah, what is up with the shoes, untied and all? I wouldn't dare to make any sudden moves and be afraid to trip or slip out of them. You can't expect to be light on your feet that way.

 

[TensorBackhand]

I see a lot of good advice already, here's something else:

your receives aren't "terrible". Stop putting yourself down like that, it's absolutely uncalled for. You are having trouble executing something that you're trying to learn, against a player who is clearly completely in control and leagues above you.
This is good! Try it, keep trying it, especially in situations like this. Nothing to lose, a lot of opportunity to learn.

..but yeah, what is up with the shoes, untied and all? I wouldn't dare to make any sudden moves and be afraid to trip or slip out of them. You can't expect to be light on your feet that way.

Ha, a lot of people mentioned my shoes. I was just walking around the gym watching other matches and not planning on playing. Victor just suddenly called at me to hit with him a bit, so I didn't have time to put on my game shoes.

 

[vvk1]

You're playing a left-handed penholder - a very rare kind of opponent in its own - whose serves are designed to make you open up first. Based on the few videos of your opponent I have seen, countering and rallying is his strength and he could certainly overpower you in an open rally. Also, your serve return did not put him under pressure and your serves wen't as good as his.

A lot of people, even better players than you, would also feel very uncomfortable playing someone like that, at least initially. I certainly would.

You did reasonably well playing him for the first time. All you need is more practice against left-handed players of similar level. Usually, the tactics they use against you also work against them. Good luck.

 

[Aizen]

Disclaimer: I'm a seasoned low level obi-player. So my words are not advise, just my mere observations.

Firstly, I have also similar problems so it's easier to said than done of course, don't get me wrong.

Secondly, I'm surprised that they allowed you play with that shoes, not just for speed and injury risk, also they can mark the floor. Even the barefoot is better, at least hurting your ankles would be harder.

My observations from your footage:

1st Receive: (around 00:24)

The ball is at middle of court already, direction is wide forehand, you haven't moved that yet. Maybe you focused too much on spin, forgot to look at the direction and depth.
A small adjustment step needed to the right. Then a step with right foot into the table due to the ball is coming short.

At this point you already late, way too far from ball, hardly reaching. And you are trying to send ball back cross court in front of your opponent who also not ready actually, just watching ball. Of course ball goes long and high. (Red arrow)
Alternatively, at least if you have tried to send ball back to his forehand (parallel), he won't be easily attacking you, and also you already touching ball from left so, you would have more control on ball while sending. (Green arrow)


2nd receive (around 00:46) (there are couple more points with same serve)

The opponent, hits ball edge of table and fast, most likely it will come long. Then ball passed the net, you still haven't moved yet.

Then after even you are close to table, and ball is fast top spin, you are lowering your hand like it's heavy low backspin (even though we should lower with body first).
Of course, you can't touch ball from above and touching from below and makes the ball pop.
Actually you are doing left step after hitting but still good that you've made reset and try to ready for next ball.

3rd FH serve receive (around 02:16)

The ball is coming to wide forehand already passed net but you haven't moved yet,
Your right foot should be at the tip of red arrow.
Then ball touches table, you are late, even with your huuge backswing, you manage to hit but week return, point is lost.
When you were late, you could have much shorter stroke or receiving farther and squatting down, making slow short spinny topspin would be better return (which may buy you a time for next balls, recovery, harder to attacked by opponent)

4th receive FH (around 2:29)

The opponent makes side spin to forehand, the ball has passed the net but still you haven't moved a bit.
Right foot should be around the tip of red arrow.

When the ball hit to your side of table, you are making huge backswing again while you out of position, which makes you late and harder for timing. Also ball has side spin to wide FH, which harder to catch from your position.
Then ball passes almost you, eventually you miss the ball.

Alternatively, even you are late, you could have a jump to right (Yellow Arrow) while or before backswing,
then with shorter backswing, instead of hitting to cross court (the opponents BH),
you could aim to his FH (parallel) (Green arrow), which would be
- harder for your opponent,
- easier to countering incoming spin
- easier to hit from your position.


Summary:
- You could try to anticipate not only spin, also depth, position etc.
You may try to adjust spin at latest point with your wrist action, but if you are out position it's harder to execute decent shot.
- More footwork, small adjustment steps as soon as ball leaves the opponent's racket.
- First step then backswing (instead of otherwise) or backswing while stepping
- Avoiding excessive strokes (still not doing half strokes), if you are not confident at your position, timing etc.


By the way, you are much better at footwork and anticipation at 3rd and 4th balls, probably stressing about your opponents serve etc.

End note:
Please fellow members and TT gods forgive me if I made a mistake, I just wanted to share my humble opinions.

 

[Aizen]

Well Victor isn't just any server, so it is not a shame you are having a hard time recieving against him. Also he is a lefty, so this makes the angles you have to cover wider.

But since you asked for advice I will give you some insight of the things that I noticed. And they all have to do with just 2 things.

Sorry @Amayzde I didn't wanna hijack your post 😅 I saw late after posting mine and refreshing.