Australian players in German leagues.

[Tony's Table Tennis]

I have met many Australian national players/coaches over the years. I basically traveled the world a lot in my younger years and I networked a lot and with my visit to down under, I met quite a few national players/coaches and stayed in contact over the years.
With my recent involvement with leagues, a couple of Australian players was instrumental and provided me with good information on Germany/Europe - even organizing contact details and what not.

Of course I am from the era of William Henzell, the lone warrior from down under in the ITTF rankings (a true Elite). Of course there is also Simon Gereda who is also a mighty force, but then the rest is also a large distance away - even the Australians acknowledge this. Many countries has face this pattern, where the next generation has a mighty level gap, because the previous generation was just too strong.
and with the way ITTF changes world ranking calculations, over the years, a world ranking is not a true reflection of playing ability, and so is making the Olympics (since if you are Aussie champion, you are basically an Olympians, but then you can also be a New Zealand champion and qualify for the Olympics, you will never become an Olympian), simliar put it, in terms of elite levels over the past 10 years, Oceania qualifications (compared to the other continents) on the mens side is probably the easiest to achieve.

So what do we know from players and which division they played in Germany? here is the list I have

Henzell - TTBL (very famous player)
2 time Olympian, Hu - 4th division 1 season and then went to 5th division for 2 more years (few matches here and there only). 4th division win 9 loss 15.
Chambers - 4th division 2 years ago for 2 years, 5th division for 3 years before that, including subbing up to 1st division with 2-3 losses against Franziska, Apolonia)
Bae, 5th division 2 years ago.

Dixon - 4th division today, was in 5th division in 2021 and worked his way up.
Luu, 3rd division today, 4th division 2 years ago, 5th division 3 years ago. 3rd division win 6 vs loss 9

So with just some recent data, it seems most Australians are 5th division to 4th division club players - the comfortable division for Aussie players if I can call it such.
But don't get me wrong, 4th division is not an easy division and requires TTR of 2200+

We all learning on how to get better, but I actually thought Hu and a few other were higher division club players previously. Luu is probably the most successful club player since Henzell and he is only 20 years old.
Australia does have some good full time training programs going on and way more international exposure for its juniors, with some top notch facilities - much better than a decade or two ago. I wonder what else is required to move up to the higher divisions - maybe the current young ones can achieve that or maybe the next generation, what is your view?

 

[McSmasher]

I think the Aussies will place all their bets on the young talent... Luu, Lum and Psihogios all qualified for the ITTF world cup this month, and they're all 20 or under. Probably a good bet to make, but it's hard to judge whether they're going to reach the GOAT levels of Henzell...

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

I think the Aussies will place all their bets on the young talent... Luu, Lum and Psihogios all qualified for the ITTF world cup this month, and they're all 20 or under. Probably a good bet to make, but it's hard to judge whether they're going to reach the GOAT levels of Henzell...

yep, the ages of Luu/Lum on the mens side does give them a lot of room to improve still.

but qualifying for world cup, or olympic, which is basically just oceania champions gets direct entry, doesn't mean one is the level of Henzell or even close. oceania's level is probably the lowest of all the continents and that "weight" is a separate discussion on its own.

I knew of Henzell only after he was famous.
I do not know of his history, would you be able to compare how he was at age 20, in terms of dominance in Australia? at what age did he start dominating in Oceania, and then making inroads in the world?
I can probably dig up some data, but not sure if there is any from so long back - and hoping with your Aussie flag tag, you might just have an answer

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

After some digging, Luu's result isn't bad in the 3rd division.
He has faced many elite players that are "hired" to play lower down.
Yan Sheng, Tokic, Wang Xi for example are all 2nd+ caliber,
not to mention Leo is a reserve for the 1st division (and he will be a main member next season).
Bluhm is also a scary opponent, I have 6 players that failed to beat him in Challengers. 3 of them I thought should be able too, but Taiwanese and choppers is a problem.

so he won 6 and loss 9, but of the 9 loss, 4 of them is no chance of a win. and many of them having respectable points scored.

and another interesting data of Hu.
this was his highest division I can trace in Germany, he had a 9 win, 15 loss record in the 4th division (the others are 5th division)
Interesting to see Meng Fan Bo name in the list of opponents, he was around 16 years old then

Luu is doing better than the number shows in my initial post, I hope he continue to grow!
by the looks of it, he would have many olympics under his belt having Paris already.

 

[McSmasher]

yep, the ages of Luu/Lum on the mens side does give them a lot of room to improve still.

but qualifying for world cup, or olympic, which is basically just oceania champions gets direct entry, doesn't mean one is the level of Henzell or even close. oceania's level is probably the lowest of all the continents and that "weight" is a separate discussion on its own.

I knew of Henzell only after he was famous.
I do not know of his history, would you be able to compare how he was at age 20, in terms of dominance in Australia? at what age did he start dominating in Oceania, and then making inroads in the world?
I can probably dig up some data, but not sure if there is any from so long back - and hoping with your Aussie flag tag, you might just have an answer

Henzell spent a lot of his younger years in Sweden, some of the history is stored in Ratings Central:

Henzell, William, Rating History

Events played by Henzell, William.

www.ratingscentral.com

As soon as he started senior competitions in Australia, he was dominant, winning the Australian Nationals 13 of a possible 15 times before he retired, and was pretty dominant in Oceania as well. He was also the number 1 ranked for 14 of his 15 year career (Gerada being #1 in 2003):

• 13 times Australian National Champion - 2001, 02, 05, 06, 07, 08, 09, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15
• 10 times Oceania Singles Champion - 2004, 2006, 2007, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012, 2013, 2014, 2015
• Australia - Ranked no 1 (14 times) 2001–02, 04-15

He definitely left on the top of his game, it's crazy to think that he's actually a year younger than Timo Boll!

 

[NextLevel]

Adi Sareen, who trains in the USA but is an Australian citizen is also one to look out for. He should turn 17 this year.

Aditya Sareen

www.vis.org.au

SAREEN, Aditya

ACHIEVEMENTS 2024 Oceania Championships Men’s Team Champion Men’s Singles Runner-up Men’s Doubles Runner-up Mixed

www.butterflyonline.com

His best win to date but he still has ways to go:

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

Did you know:
Henzell is such a legend that a TTBL team still continues to register him every year.
so technically speaking, he is still on the team roster

 

[ThePongCommenter]

Adi Sareen, who trains in the USA but is an Australian citizen is also one to look out for. He should turn 17 this year.

Aditya Sareen

www.vis.org.au

SAREEN, Aditya

ACHIEVEMENTS 2024 Oceania Championships Men’s Team Champion Men’s Singles Runner-up Men’s Doubles Runner-up Mixed

www.butterflyonline.com

His best win to date but he still has ways to go:

Also much of his coaching has come from his dad who is a former Australian junior player (I forget if he was on the team or not), so he is somewhat Australian-grown.

In my biased opinion he is and was better than Luu at the time of the Australian Olympic trials but Luu was better that day and took the ticket to Paris. Adi will likely get his turn though.

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

Also much of his coaching has come from his dad who is a former Australian junior player (I forget if he was on the team or not), so he is somewhat Australian-grown.

In my biased opinion he is and was better than Luu at the time of the Australian Olympic trials but Luu was better that day and took the ticket to Paris. Adi will likely get his turn though.

I saw Adi’s name in a (speaking under correction) 4th or 5th division club in Germany. But he hasn’t played any matches yet

 

[NextLevel]

Also much of his coaching has come from his dad who is a former Australian junior player (I forget if he was on the team or not), so he is somewhat Australian-grown.

In my biased opinion he is and was better than Luu at the time of the Australian Olympic trials but Luu was better that day and took the ticket to Paris. Adi will likely get his turn though.

I think former Indian junior, not Australian. But I could be wrong. The dad was a rusty 2200+ when they came to the country, so was likely higher as a junior - very solid blocking game, almost unbreakable. Most of his hitting came with his dad when he was young, but he did train with lots of Asian coaches, most notably Ying Peng at Princeton. The biggest benefit is that his dad understands table tennis better than most parents so his dad has managed to navigate the world of coaches and training well.

 

[ThePongCommenter]

I think former Indian junior, not Australian. But I could be wrong. The dad was a rusty 2200+ when they came to the country, so was likely higher as a junior - very solid blocking game, almost unbreakable. Most of his hitting came with his dad when he was young, but he did train with lots of Asian coaches, most notably Ying Peng at Princeton. The biggest benefit is that his dad understands table tennis better than most parents so his dad has managed to navigate the world of coaches and training well.

I am talking about coaching from the perspective of high level guidance and oversight and not on the table training - of course most of the latter came with high level players. Then again he may be biased in giving his dad that amount of credit lol.

 

[NextLevel]

I am talking about coaching from the perspective of high level guidance and oversight and not on the table training - of course most of the latter came with high level players. Then again he may be biased in giving his dad that amount of credit lol.

His father is extremely smart. I used to be there when his father would hit with him for hours in Princeton so regardless of whatever is responsible for his recent development, his father has had a huge hand in steering things in many ways including on the table training. He had an interesting assessment of a high level coach teaching a specific technique that stuck in my mind. Also considers Corey Eider a tactical genius. If you need to pick a coach, he is a good person to talk to.

 

[ThePongCommenter]

His father is extremely smart. I used to be there when his father would hit with him for hours in Princeton so regardless of whatever is responsible for his recent development, his father has had a huge hand in steering things in many ways including on the table training. He had an interesting assessment of a high level coach teaching a specific technique that stuck in my mind. Also considers Corey Eider a tactical genius. If you need to pick a coach, he is a good person to talk to.

Yep... And Cory Eider is a tactical genius indeed.

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

so it seems like these current youngsters has a chance to go up the ladder - in terms of German club divisions.
some players went forward, (Chambers, went from 5 to 4), while some went backwards (Hu from 4 to 5).
i'm hoping to see, 4, 3, 2, 1

 

[yamagata]

well, the Australians have the best online skills teachers ( for beginners and intermediates)! They are the best on something

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

well, the Australians have the best online skills teachers ( for beginners and intermediates)! They are the best on something

i have to challenge with you there
i think number 1 is ert/ping sunday
he says he has all the secrets of the chinese national team

 

[piligrim]

What about Eli Ho

 

[McSmasher]

What about Eli Ho

He's from New Zealand, which is Australia's neighbour and very similar culturally (similar to USA to Canada I guess... I hope I'm not offending anyone with this lol)

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

He's from New Zealand, which is Australia's neighbour and very similar culturally (similar to USA to Canada I guess... I hope I'm not offending anyone with this lol)

Correct.
Unlike USA/Canada, the flags does look similar

Maybe Eli will never be an olympian (due to NZOC policies), but he should be way stronger than two time olympian heming hu.

Eli trains in Taiwan during his holidays, and his level does match that of similar age players from Taiwan - which means at the same age, he is already much stronger than hu. Probably in few more years, I would not be surprised if between 16 to 18 years old, he will be higher than the peak of hu, just like some of the Aussies players today (or even before they turned 18) are stronger than Hu's peak.

Whether or not he matches that of Henzell is a different story - but he does have potential.
He is still a bit young for leagues, but when the time is right, I can assist him getting into European leagues.

 

[piligrim]

Correct.
Unlike USA/Canada, the flags does look similar

Maybe Eli will never be an olympian (due to NZOC policies), but he should be way stronger than two time olympian heming hu.

Eli trains in Taiwan during his holidays, and his level does match that of similar age players from Taiwan - which means at the same age, he is already much stronger than hu. Probably in few more years, I would not be surprised if between 16 to 18 years old, he will be higher than the peak of hu, just like some of the Aussies players today (or even before they turned 18) are stronger than Hu's peak.

Whether or not he matches that of Henzell is a different story - but he does have potential.
He is still a bit young for leagues, but when the time is right, I can assist him getting into European leagues.

You think this grip won't prevent from him to improve and become world level player?