Back Playing Table-Tennis

[pabloh20]

Been lurking on these forums a little while and thought I would ask advice, if you guys don't mind. And sorry for the long post!

Had a hiatus from table tennis for over 10 years, used to play a quite lot recreationally in my teens to 20s, not competitively, but used to practice sometimes with a team who played in the Liverpool (UK) league and did ok with them. I used to be quite attacking on the forehand, trying to get into loop attacks early, backhand I would be a bit more defensive, it was my weaker side back then, so I would chop, take pace off the ball, try to get placement to get a 'weaker' shot back to me that I could attack.

I originally started with a cheap Dunlop bat and worked up through different pre-made bats, until I got a Petr Korbel Off blade and I had a version of Yasaka Mark V FH, Tackiness Chop BH then onto Bryce FH, Tackifire Special BH. I also have Primorac Carbon Off+ blade, it was sent by mistake instead of normal Primorac blade which was ordered, which I have used with Butterfly Cermet FH, Bryce FX BH.

Since I started playing again, I am a reserve for a league team, so get to play competitively now and again, but I can't get back into playing like I used to. I need to practise more, that's a given and something I am doing. I have stubbornly been using the Primorac carbon blade (just a bit of sentimentality really, my Dad bought it, as I used to play with him and he passed away a few years ago) and so as the old rubbers had been on for about 15 years and pretty dead, I tried some softer and possibly slower rubbers to try and tame the carbon blade a bit, so have Stiga Airoc S FH and went back to Tackiness Chop BH. However, I still don't feel like I am getting back to anything like I used to be, I don't expect to get there without a lot of practice, but I don't even feel like I am making in-roads. It could just be an age thing now!

After reading these forums for a while, I think I need to go back a few steps, get myself back to basics, as it were, put the Primorac carbon blade back in it's protective box with the rubbers on, see if I can work back up to using it, but in the mean time start using the Korbel blade again. I took the rubbers off it a while back, as they had gone funny, so it's just the blade. So, I am thinking maybe try something like the Mark V on FH again and Tackifire Drive BH, I seemed to remember really liking the Tackifire Special, but you can't get it anymore.

So firstly, I am wondering if going back to the Korbel blade is a good idea? And then any rubber recommendations are most welcome, it's a minefield out there!

Cheers!

 

[yoass]

If I'm getting your style and level properly, I'd think the Korbel is quite fast enough. The Primorac Carbon does not look like a good fit to me; it's geared towards all-out aggressive offensive play, and I think that doesn't help a passive/defensive backhand.

That being said, I understand the emotional ties to that blade. I've been wearing my father's coat ever since he died, and find parting with it quite hard, even though it's starting to look its age and wear.

 

[NDH]

Hey Pabloh, welcome back to the sport.

Are you still playing in Liverpool?

Regarding the blade/rubbers - I would lock away that Primorac Carbon blade someone safe and secure! You'll not be needing that for a long time - To give you an idea, I used to play with a Schlager Carbon blade (very similar to the Primorac). But I've actually moved to something slower (all be it still pretty quick), because the Tamca carbon in those blades is very very fast!

Even at the level I play at (UK Premier standard), you get more control/spin/accuracy over something a little slower than the Primorac/Schlager type blades.

The Korbel will be plenty quick enough!

As for rubbers, I'd probably opt for something slower than the Mark V - At the level I think you play at, having the ability to consistently get the ball on the table with a medium/fast attacking shot plus spin, will be far more effective than the super fast Mark V (which will have the potential to miss by miles).

It sounds cliche for anyone who recommends an initial starter rubber - But the classic Butterfly Sriver series is a great place to start for a balance between Attack/Control/Spin.

As for the backhand, the Tackifire is good - It depends how much you attack (the Tackifire Drive is a decent attacking rubber as well). If you solely chop/push, then you could get away with a relatively cheap tacky rubber, and I'd probably look for something a bit slower.

The Tackiness Drive Rev is a better option, and the Stiga Chop and Drive would also do a good job (if you don't attack too much on the back hand).

If you need anything else, let me know!

 

[NextLevel]

Hey Pabloh, welcome back to the sport.

Are you still playing in Liverpool?

Regarding the blade/rubbers - I would lock away that Primorac Carbon blade someone safe and secure! You'll not be needing that for a long time - To give you an idea, I used to play with a Schlager Carbon blade (very similar to the Primorac). But I've actually moved to something slower (all be it still pretty quick), because the Tamca carbon in those blades is very very fast!

Even at the level I play at (UK Premier standard), you get more control/spin/accuracy over something a little slower than the Primorac/Schlager type blades.

The Korbel will be plenty quick enough!

As for rubbers, I'd probably opt for something slower than the Mark V - At the level I think you play at, having the ability to consistently get the ball on the table with a medium/fast attacking shot plus spin, will be far more effective than the super fast Mark V (which will have the potential to miss by miles).

It sounds cliche for anyone who recommends an initial starter rubber - But the classic Butterfly Sriver series is a great place to start for a balance between Attack/Control/Spin.

As for the backhand, the Tackifire is good - It depends how much you attack (the Tackifire Drive is a decent attacking rubber as well). If you solely chop/push, then you could get away with a relatively cheap tacky rubber, and I'd probably look for something a bit slower.

The Tackiness Drive Rev is a better option, and the Stiga Chop and Drive would also do a good job (if you don't attack too much on the back hand).

If you need anything else, let me know!

Not sure Mark V is that much faster than Sriver. Other than that, I agree with the overall thrust and sentiments conveyed.

 

[NDH]

Oops - Valid point NL.

I should have said Sriver FX (forgive me.... It's been a while since I've donned the classic Srivers!)

 

[brimbaz]

I would go for Mark V both sides on the Korbel. I like the Mark V more overall compared to the Sriver and the Sriver is just overpriced for nowadays standards.

 

[NDH]

I would go for Mark V both sides on the Korbel. I like the Mark V more overall compared to the Sriver and the Sriver is just overpriced for nowadays standards.

If you were playing at a medium to high level, then yes, I'd agree.

If you are playing at a lower level, then the slower pace of the Sriver FX will be far more valuable than the speed of the Mark V.

I've seen so many lower level players stick on quick rubbers because "they are the best rubber" - Only to see them have no control, and not improve at all.

By using a slower rubber, you have time to improve your stroke and learn, before moving onto the Mark V down the line.

Not to mention he has said that he likes to chop on his back hand.......

 

[pabloh20]

Sorry, meant to say to Yoass

Yes, it was a bit of a check, really, just making sure I am not going to start myself down the wrong road, as it were! Thanks for the sanity check!

Yes, sentimentality causes strong ties and I know exactly what you mean about the coat. I am pretty sure my Dad would be the first one to tell me to change something and it's not like I am throwing or giving the blade away, just putting it on hold. By the same token, my son uses my Dad's old blade, the same primorac carbon blade and he doesn't want to give it up either!

 

[brimbaz]

If you were playing at a medium to high level, then yes, I'd agree.

If you are playing at a lower level, then the slower pace of the Sriver FX will be far more valuable than the speed of the Mark V.

I've seen so many lower level players stick on quick rubbers because "they are the best rubber" - Only to see them have no control, and not improve at all.

By using a slower rubber, you have time to improve your stroke and learn, before moving onto the Mark V down the line.

Not to mention he has said that he likes to chop on his back hand.......

He can get slower rubbers similar to sriver by a fair price. What Butterfly charges for a rubber that is very old and outdated technology is simply a steal IMO.

 

[NDH]

He can get slower rubbers similar to sriver by a fair price. What Butterfly charges for a rubber that is very old and outdated technology is simply a steal IMO.

I know what you mean, but “simply a steal” means it’s really good value. What you want to say is something along the lines of “daylight robbery”, which means it’s expensive for what it is.

Sriver in the UK isn’t too expensive, and it’s similar in cost to Mark V.

There are are a number of Sriver equivalents, but I always find that butterfly rubbers tend to last a little longer, and don’t drop off quite so dramatically.

If if the original poster improves quickly, he might want to change his rubber by the time the Sriver is worn out.

 

[pabloh20]

Hi All

Having a few technical issues with this slow connection today and I don't have enough posts to quote replies, sorry!

NDH - Yes, still in Liverpool and I play reserve for a team in lowly div5! Thanks for the advice, I was looking at a few different rubbers as well, Sriver and Tackiness Drive being some of them. The only reason I mentioned Mark V was that I used to use it on the Korbel blade and I seem to remember being happy with it at the time, but it might have been one of the softer variants. I didn't think Mark V was as fast these days, comparably, so I am glad you mentioned that. I will definitely look at Sriver FX then, as you say above, I am not too worried about the cost, obviously I don't want to waste money for no reason, but even if it gets me back on track for 6mths or so before I feel the need to change up, I am ok with that. I do attack a little bit more off my BH these days than I used to, possibly out of necessity as my FH is not as reliable!

Brimbaz - thanks for the replies. I know what you mean about 'outdated' rubber, but I feel like an outdated player at the moment, so maybe it will be a good match!! If you have any suggestions, I will certainly take a look and I really appreciate any advice/help given, if somebody has taken time out to reply to me then I will certainly listen to any help offered, cheers. As I mention to NDH, I am not overly worried about the monetary aspect of buying rubbers, but I will look at all suggestions, thanks.

 

[brimbaz]

If you already used Mark V before and don't think it's too fast I would go for it. If you feel you need more speed / spin and money is not an issue you can always change after a while.
I had tried Mark V, Mark V HPS, Sriver, Sriver EL, Sriver FX.
I feel like the normal version of Mark V is better than Sriver, especially in terms of durability and control.

 

[NDH]

Hey Pabloh,

As you mentioned when you first posted.... It is an absolute minefield out there.

I think people will see certain rubbers as "outdated" or "poor value for money", because all of the new technologies in sponge and rubber, are designed for the very best players (who can utilise the extra speed and spin these rubbers generate).

Especially now we have the "Plastic Ball" which is slower than the old balls - You'll see things like "designed for the plastic ball" which in real terms mean "quicker" - That's assuming it means anything at all, and isn't just marketing guff.

In your position, if you found a nice all around set up - Something that allowed you to go aggressive without ballooning the ball 10 feet off the end of the table, I think you'd really benefit in the long run.

What can happen with people who come back to the sport after a lengthy time off (especially if you weren't a div 1/2 player before hand), is they slap on a couple of "quick" rubbers (or even the one's they used before), and then adjust their strokes to suit the rubber.

This tends to give you some horrendous habits, and will hamper your development (whatever that may be), over the next few years.

Once you start attacking consistently with things like Sriver FX or similar (look at rubbers with a speed rating of around 7 on Tees Sport), you can then move up to something a bit quicker, as you start to despatch those guys in the higher leagues!

Remember, in Div 5, it will be spin and consistency that will win you games, not speed.

 

[NDH]

If you already used Mark V before and don't think it's too fast I would go for it. If you feel you need more speed / spin and money is not an issue you can always change after a while.
I had tried Mark V, Mark V HPS, Sriver, Sriver EL, Sriver FX.
I feel like the normal version of Mark V is better than Sriver, especially in terms of durability and control.

Hey Brimbaz, what level do you play?

 

[pabloh20]

NDH - Yes, exactly, I am under no illusions whatsoever of what is required at the level I am trying to play! Just getting the ball on the table is paramount, sometimes it doesn't even need spin on it!! My motto is if you can get the ball back on the table, there is always a chance of winning the point, especially at this level.

I used to do as you say, try to get quick rubbers and I think I used to cope with them ok when younger and better, but not now. I purposely tried to pick slower rubbers this time, for the very reason you said, but didn't do a good enough job, obviously.

I don't have much of an ego when it comes to table tennis, I always play to win of course, but I think I had about a 10 year losing streak when I started playing against my Dad, so I am no stranger to it! It's not losing that frustrates me, it's not playing to a 'standard' I think I should/could be playing, which I think you picked up on. And letting team mates down, is not a good feeling

 

[brimbaz]

Hey Brimbaz, what level do you play?

2nd Division which is something like 3rd division because there is a 2nd honor division. I don't know how it works on other countries because I've seen people giving their ratings by points.

 

[NDH]

NDH - Yes, exactly, I am under no illusions whatsoever of what is required at the level I am trying to play! Just getting the ball on the table is paramount, sometimes it doesn't even need spin on it!! My motto is if you can get the ball back on the table, there is always a chance of winning the point, especially at this level.

I used to do as you say, try to get quick rubbers and I think I used to cope with them ok when younger and better, but not now. I purposely tried to pick slower rubbers this time, for the very reason you said, but didn't do a good enough job, obviously.

I don't have much of an ego when it comes to table tennis, I always play to win of course, but I think I had about a 10 year losing streak when I started playing against my Dad, so I am no stranger to it! It's not losing that frustrates me, it's not playing to a 'standard' I think I should/could be playing, which I think you picked up on. And letting team mates down, is not a good feeling

It sounds like you have the perfect mindset for the sport!

As you said, losing is fine - Everyone loses at times. But not playing as well as you could is the most annoying thing!

I think a lot of people on this forum will have a hard time imagining the 5th div of the Liverpool league (I see the lower divisions of my local leagues, and I've also been there), so I know exactly the type of players you are up against.

Please correct me if I'm wrong, and this is for reference to other people reading this thread.

The types of players Pabloh will be up against are (generally):

1. New to the sport, returning to the sport after a long absence, very young or very old.
2. Not many (if any) "loops" will be flying around - Most games consist of a lot of pushing (note, pushing, not chopping).
3. If you have some good serves, you'll win 90% of your service points - But most people don't have great serves.
4. 90% of people will have a VERY dominant wing - Surprisingly, it's not always the forehand which is dominant (think of those players who always play backhand punchy type shots) - The kind you find at a recreational table.
5. There is no speed to work with. You have to generate all the speed yourself, which makes it quite easy to balloon an attacking shot off the end of the table if you cant control the rubber.

I think that covers it. Please correct me if I'm wrong Pabloh.

It's great you have come back to the sport, it's dying on it's ass in this country, and we need more people playing!

 

[NDH]

2nd Division which is something like 3rd division because there is a 2nd honor division. I don't know how it works on other countries because I've seen people giving their ratings by points.

Tell me about it, trying to balance out people's ability is a minefield - I might make a thread to see if we can get some kind of benchmark between different countries to compare ability!

Is there any video of you playing online?

The only reason I ask, is I think your advice (whilst it's always good to get multiple opinions), is a little off here. But you probably don't appreciate what standard "Div 5 of the Liverpool league" really is - Which is understandable.

 

[brimbaz]

Yes maybe not knowing other countries ratings is a problem indeed.
One of my practise partners is from Belgium and he played there at level C2 he tells me. Maybe helps a bit but I bet, again, it is diferent from the UK.

Anyways on the topic: I played with the primorac wood blade before and it's somewhat similar to petr korbel, sriver fx just felt very soft for this blade and I didn't like it at all. Maybe that is just my opinion and will suit other players greatly
In this vast world of all sorts of diferent equipment combinations I'm sure everyone plays what they like the best and there are no right or wrongs (mostly haha, some combos might be indeed bad)

 

[pabloh20]

NDH - you are exactly right on all 5 points Of the returning to the sport, or new players, you do get some decent players in there, too. You sometimes see older players and they aren't as mobile as they used to be, but geez they have some great shots on them. However, generally what happens with the better players is that they get 'poached' by a higher team if they play for a club with multiple teams.

Brimbaz - I appreciate your insights and experience with using similar equipment as well. I guess sometimes when trying to find the 'right' rubber, you just have to suck it and see. As you say, I might have end up having the same opinion as you on Sriver FX, or it may suit me perfectly.