Backhanders

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Why best backhanders usually use black bh rubbers?

Can you be a little more vague ? OK I am only just joking. No offense intended

What backhanders ? A TPH player (who never uses the backside) ?

Anyway I assume you are talking about spinny inverted rubbers because in tabaletennis forums most questions and answers seem to be based on the assumption that spinny inverted is the "NORMAL" rubber. To a small extent this is justified but to a large extent this is extremely offensive..

Anyway to start with, I remember asking late Dr.Rufford Harrison (former chaiman of the now super infamous ITTF Equipment Committee) about the differences between red & black rubbers. He replied by saying that one was a pigment & one was a dye. (I do not remember which one is which & I lost the letter but I still have the letter about Aspect Ratio where he talks about proposing it to Tianjin 1995 BGM & I had no idea what he was talking about (things like BGM, ITTF councils & committees etc.....this was before the days of email & internet ..........if I had I would have warned al ITTF council & committte members if such a change passes......but sadly it did pass by teh closest of margins at Durban 1998 EGM). Maybe some chemist can verify this (about pigment & dye differences) for me, also now in the context of 4 new rubber colors.

BTW I also asked why only red & black was chosen & not two color groups (one group with like red, orange & yellow and other group with like black, blue & green)
He stated that that is also what ITTF wanted but (most) manufacturers wanted only few limited colors .To me it meant that is what Butterfly wanted LOL (in early 90s , Butterfly & Stiga were sort of a duopoly of the market share)

Personally I felt the black inverted rubber of same brand has more spin than red. Don't know why.. If this is true then I assume those players who use spinny inverted rubbers on weakside (backhand) use it because it gives more spin ?

On the other hand if I am not mistaken, most choppers seem to have red on their backhand & most penhold hitters use black on their strongside (forehand) .
But I would say it is mostly a matter of personal preference or feel or delusions or hallucinations or pro player groupie worship etc. LOL

Another thing I noticed is that black is mandatory on one side after 2021 supposedly because of color blind players but I am not sure if enough research went into this because I have read some research on internet that says black / green was the worst color combination for a color blind to distinguish. So if you hate the two color rule always use black & green when playing against a color blind person. LOL

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No no, no black rubbers in the BH.😁
In recent years, almost only red rubbers have been played in the BH and exclusively with black in the FH, with a few exceptions.
It was a remarkable change years ago when practically everyone used to play with red on the FH and black in the BH
Why they change it is still a mystery to me.

 
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No no, no black rubbers in the BH.😁
In recent years, almost only red rubbers have been played in the BH and exclusively with black in the FH, with a few exceptions.
It was a remarkable change years ago when practically everyone used to play with red on the FH and black in the BH
Why they change it is still a mystery to me.

I think because the CNT mainly played black on FH. The black side was apparently slightly tackier/grippier than the red side. over time, rest of world followed suit

 
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I think because the CNT mainly played black on FH. The black side was apparently slightly tackier/grippier than the red side. over time, rest of world followed suit
Not sure about this one. Because if you say black is more tacky , would it not make sense to have it on weaker side to generate more spin to pull it down on other side as compared to strong side where you can generate more power to geenrate same amount of spin ?

I also don't know about the rest of the world following China without very compelling statistics especilly because Chinese & non-Chinese inverted rubber designs seem to be fundmentally different
 
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If there is a difference (which I doubt) You want the best rubber on the side where You can get the most of it, Your best side.

Cheers
L-zr
I think you doubt wrong beccaue for 90% or so of humans in any rackect sport, forehand is the dominant side & more powerful side though may not be the best side (But I agree with you to the extent that most (low level) amatuers suck equally on both sides LOL but delude themsleves that their both sides are equal & are like a pro's). Overall best side is not relevant for this discussion about best inverted rubber choice. If you want to use spinny inverted on your weakside you want to use a more spinny rubber to pull the ball down on the opponents' side.& you can use more power on yoru strong side to generate same amout of spin as weakside.

 
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Thanks for all replies.I will just refer an example.Veteran kalinikos kreanga, considered a god of backhand, always plays with the a black bh.Maybe it's a myth!My question arises because my rubber supplier made a mistake in the colors I ordered. Now I'm going to start playing with black bh and red fh.Maybe I will come a god of the backhand, lol...
 
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I think you doubt wrong beccaue for 90% or so of humans in any rackect sport, forehand is the dominant side & more powerful side though may not be the best side (But I agree with you to the extent that:LOL but delude themsleves that their both sides are equal & are like a pro's). Overall best side is not relevant for this discussion about best inverted rubber choice. If you want to use spinny inverted on your weakside you want to use a more spinny rubber to pull the ball down on the opponents' side.& you can use more power on yoru strong side to generate same amout of spin as weakside.

Would i be correct then assuming that this is not only a matter of black vs red but extends into why most players
are using different rubbers (regardless of colors) ????
Is it to enhance the strong side or to help along a bit with their weak side ? Does it matter ??
Well it obviously must because many players use different rubbers, different brands, different sponge thickness, different stickiness, tensor and not tensor etc etc etc on the two racket sides.

I did follow this trend in the beginning of my "return to TT ", got horribly confused and decided that as an :" (quote )
"""most (low level) amatuers suck eqaully on both sides """ that this was exactly me and now happily play with the same rubber on both sides again. 😁

 
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Not sure about this one. Because if you say black is more tacky , would it not make sense to have it on weaker side to generate more spin to pull it down on other side as compared to strong side where you can generate more power to geenrate same amount of spin ?

I also don't know about the rest of the world following China without very compelling statistics especilly because Chinese & non-Chinese inverted rubber designs seem to be fundmentally different
I think with German/Japanese rubber, there is really no difference between black and red. With Chinese tacky rubber, the general understanding is that DHS didn't have the dye technology down perfectly, so the black side always came out tackier. In the past, CNT players would play DHS on forehand and Butterfly on BH. Thus they would use black on FH and red on BH.

I heard Adam Bobrow say during a commentary that the other foreign players over time just starting following the CNT tradition. Some players like Harimoto grew up idolizing Ma Long, so that's probably why he does it.

 
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I think with German/Japanese rubber, there is really no difference between black and red. With Chinese tacky rubber, the general understanding is that DHS didn't have the dye technology down perfectly, so the black side always came out tackier. In the past, CNT players would play DHS on forehand and Butterfly on BH. Thus they would use black on FH and red on BH.

I heard Adam Bobrow say during a commentary that the other foreign players over time just starting following the CNT tradition. Some players like Harimoto grew up idolizing Ma Long, so that's probably why he does it.


Afaik the "problem" with DHS H3 and other rubbers is that the red, dyed topsheet is still translucent so if they would put it on a dark, e.g. blue sponge it would be too dark and therefore illegal to play with in official tournaments.
Back in the day CNT players like Ma Lin also used a red rubber on FH

 
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Although you can use any rubber on either side, some rubbers are better suited for the backhand.The reasoning Keme gives is sound: red is generally harder, more offensive; black is tackier, more spinny.

 
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please supply proper evidence re. black rubbers being more tacky, spinny, and softer than red
As I stated in my first post in this thread, Dr.Rufford Harrison felt that this maybe because one is a pigment & one is a dye. I don't pretend to claim that I know as I am not a chemist & that is why I asked a chmeist to comment.
I use spinny Chinese rubbers and not far less spinny non-Chinese rubbers. So based on that the difference is lot more pronounced in Chinese rubbers such as 730,999, Mercury, KTL Pro XT, GeoSpin Tacky etc compared to anti-spin like rubbers such as Tenergy etc What I I am saying is that teh spin difference between Red & Black Tenergy may be much closer than say between Mercury Red & Black. Black GeoSpin Tacky is crazy spinny but Red Geospin Tacky , though very spinny does not seem to be that much spinnt compared to black
Also going forward you may want to take into account other four rubber colors. Before the two colro rule of 1983 the blue & green were darker & probably more spinnier. Green Mark V (& of course blue Mark V) was almost as spinny as Black Mark V. But aftre 2021 green & blue are very bright esepcially inverted but pink & violet may not be that bright. So I can't say.but would say jury is still out on these.
Also for illegally boosted inverted rubbers the spin differential may be smaller because spin comes from mostly sponge & not top sheet.

 
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Thanks for all replies.I will just refer an example.Veteran kalinikos kreanga, considered a god of backhand, always plays with the a black bh.Maybe it's a myth!My question arises because my rubber supplier made a mistake in the colors I ordered. Now I'm going to start playing with black bh and red fh.Maybe I will come a god of the backhand, lol...

Like you wrote, Kreanga is a veteran, so he played (in is good years) already with black in his BH like the most players in that time. Why massive changes took place over a number of years will probably remain a myth.
That's very pity, but you can, maybe turn also your racket in your hand?

 
Afaik the "problem" with DHS H3 and other rubbers is that the red, dyed topsheet is still translucent so if they would put it on a dark, e.g. blue sponge it would be too dark and therefore illegal to play with in official tournaments.
Back in the day CNT players like Ma Lin also used a red rubber on FH

Movie from the past, so almost everyone at that time played with red in the FH and black in the BH

 
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As I stated in my first post in this thread, Dr.Rufford Harrison felt that this maybe because one is a pigment & one is a dye. I don't pretend to claim that I know as I am not a chemist & that is why I asked a chmeist to comment.
I use spinny Chinese rubbers and not far less spinny non-Chinese rubbers. So based on that the difference is lot more pronounced in Chinese rubbers such as 730,999, Mercury, KTL Pro XT, GeoSpin Tacky etc compared to anti-spin like rubbers such as Tenergy etc What I I am saying is that teh spin difference between Red & Black Tenergy may be much closer than say between Mercury Red & Black. Black GeoSpin Tacky is crazy spinny but Red Geospin Tacky , though very spinny does not seem to be that much spinnt compared to black
Also going forward you may want to take into account other four rubber colors. Before the two colro rule of 1983 the blue & green were darker & probably more spinnier. Green Mark V (& of course blue Mark V) was almost as spinny as Black Mark V. But aftre 2021 green & blue are very bright esepcially inverted but pink & violet may not be that bright. So I can't say.but would say jury is still out on these.
Also for illegally boosted inverted rubbers the spin differential may be smaller because spin comes from mostly sponge & not top sheet.

it never seems to get simpler, always more complicated 😁

If , as you state, the spin comes from mostly the sponge not the sheet then Dr.Rufford Harrison's "felt -observations"" will become irrelevant .

After giving in to the myth about this difference between black and red and finding no difference, I have returned to
playing with rxton 5 on both sides. I sometimes twiddle my blade for fun and to confuse the enemy but it makes no difference what so ever to either my FH or BH play.

Maybe I am just not sensitive enough 🤣

 
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If , as you state, the spin comes from mostly the sponge not the sheet then Dr.Rufford Harrison's "felt -observations"" will become irrelevant .


Only in the context of speed-glued or boosted rubbers and not in the case of non-boosted sticky Chinese rubbers, where the differences comes usually from mostly top-sheet which is sticky unless the sponges are drastically different in hardness.
What Dr.Rufford Harrison talked about ONLY involves the top sheet characteristics so it may not be relevanat in sponge bossting or hardness context

After giving in to the myth about this difference between black and red and finding no difference, I have returned to
playing with rxton 5 on both sides. I sometimes twiddle my blade for fun and to confuse the enemy but it makes no difference what so ever to either my FH or BH play.

If one is capable of generating high amount of spin with Chinese rubbers then they can feel the difference between different top sheets.
Pros & high level amateurs can.
But lower level players generate much less spin, & they won't feel that much difference.
This is all the more true in the case of antispin like rubbers liek Tenergy in the hands of an amatuer & to some extent for even higher level players.
I suspect this why most Chinese top players boost ilegally as well as use sticky topshhet like Hurricane on top of that.
 
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