Best way to return short serves?

[TensorBackhand]

So, I think everybody agrees that the best way to return a long serve is with a loop.

If somebody serves short underspin, i'm reasonably good at pushing short close to the net.

But what's the best way to return short serves that are not underspin? (no spin, sidespin, side-under). Generally speaking, I return these short serves with a push. But my pushes always go long. Is that considered acceptable return? I think its really hard to keep this serve short. So usually I just try my best to keep my push low and hope for the best.

So what is the best way to deal with these serves as a general framework?

 

[PaddyPolar]

Obviously the best thing to do with these serves is to flick, but when i can't do that, i often try to make the pushes as hard to return as possible, using wide angles, deceptive placement and using speed.

 

[blahness]

For me the best response is a chiquita to a nasty placement which usually wins the point outright, or is weakly returned so I can just finish the point with a strong FH topspin. But it is not an easy stroke to learn.

Sideswipes (撇) are really good and error tolerant too (ie even if you misread the serve a bit it is still likely to go onto the table with reasonable quality). Also the strong sidespin can be quite troublesome for opponents to attack, even if they attack it is not gonna be super high quality or they risk missing.

i also really like the nontopspin flick (推挑) because it is quite easy to execute (literally it is like pushing a door). As it is quite fast without topspin, it can be quite disgusting to deal with as any kind of passive block will go to the net. I dont like traditional flicks because they produce weak topspin which is all too easily dealt with on the other side.

Of course, you can close the racket angle and do a fast, deep push (劈) to a nasty placement and then quickly recover to either block (if they topspin it) or use a FH powerloop against underspin to punish it decisively. I generally dont like this option because if I put too much quality in the deep push and they push it back, the ball has a lot of underspin which I have to spend a lot of energy attacking.

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

All depending on the opponent

 

[blahness]

You can push short against all those non underspin serves too btw. You can check out Fang Bo's tutorial on how to do that. It is advanced technique but I had a blast on learning it.

 

[TensorBackhand]

For me the best response is a chiquita to a nasty placement which usually wins the point outright, or is weakly returned so I can just finish the point with a strong FH topspin. But it is not an easy stroke to learn.

Sideswipes (撇) are really good and error tolerant too (ie even if you misread the serve a bit it is still likely to go onto the table with reasonable quality). Also the strong sidespin can be quite troublesome for opponents to attack, even if they attack it is not gonna be super high quality or they risk missing.

i also really like the nontopspin flick (推挑) because it is quite easy to execute (literally it is like pushing a door). As it is quite fast without topspin, it can be quite disgusting to deal with as any kind of passive block will go to the net. I dont like traditional flicks because they produce weak topspin which is all too easily dealt with on the other side.

Of course, you can close the racket angle and do a fast, deep push (劈) to a nasty placement and then quickly recover to either block (if they topspin it) or use a FH powerloop against underspin to punish it decisively. I generally dont like this option because if I put too much quality in the deep push and they push it back, the ball has a lot of underspin which I have to spend a lot of energy attacking.

I think right now I am basically doing the nontopspin flick. I don't even know what to call it, it's more like a non-spin horizontal push.

 

[TensorBackhand]

You can push short against all those non underspin serves too btw. You can check out Fang Bo's tutorial on how to do that. It is advanced technique but I had a blast on learning it.

yes, that's what I wanted to ask. Is it worth learning to try to push short? It seems exceedingly difficult at the amateur level.

I'm thinking a push or flick is more high percentage?

 

[TensorBackhand]

Obviously the best thing to do with these serves is to flick, but when i can't do that, i often try to make the pushes as hard to return as possible, using wide angles, deceptive placement and using speed.

Oh yeah, there is flick. I feel like I have been relying more on the push because it seems more high percentage. The flick seems risky. But maybe I should make this my main focus of training going forward.

 

[Gozo Aruna]

• Flat hit if ball is higher than net.
• Flick'em muthafuq'ers if lower than net.
• Important success deciding factor is footwork must get into the table, that is, knees must be under the table.
  

 

[blahness]

yes, that's what I wanted to ask. Is it worth learning to try to push short? It seems exceedingly difficult at the amateur level.

I dont think it is that difficult if you understand the principles - i think dingyibvs also learnt it easily. I pretty much just followed Fang Bo's tutorial. Basics is to ask someone to hit a flat or even topspin serve to you and you have to rob the ball of its momentum to the sides until you can double bounce it.

 

[blahness]

yes, that's what I wanted to ask. Is it worth learning to try to push short? It seems exceedingly difficult at the amateur level.

I'm thinking a push or flick is more high percentage?

Imo highest percentage receive is the sideswipe, and it works against all serves on both wings. If you know how to do a sidespin pendulum serve you know how to sideswipe.

The nontopspin flick is actually quite a high percentage shot once you get the hang of it.

Chiquita is also quite high percentage if you brush more.

Imo short push is very high risk if your opponent can attack high short balls. It doesnt take a lot to pop it up or net it. Long push is less risky, but if you wanna do low deep fast pushes those are lower percentage shots compared to the slower ones.

The push really only seems safe because you havent encountered players who can serve very spinny sidetopspin which are very well disguised. Imo it is easier to do the nontopspin flick against underspin than it is to push against heavy sidetopspin.

 

[pingpongpaddy]

So, I think everybody agrees that the best way to return a long serve is with a loop.

If somebody serves short underspin, i'm reasonably good at pushing short close to the net.

But what's the best way to return short serves that are not underspin? (no spin, sidespin, side-under). Generally speaking, I return these short serves with a push. But my pushes always go long. Is that considered acceptable return? I think its really hard to keep this serve short. So usually I just try my best to keep my push low and hope for the best.

So what is the best way to deal with these serves as a general framework?

Short serves allow a greater choice of directions and speed compared with long serves but of course long serves allow for more power.
I would say that players with imagination should at look at all the possibilities

 

[Takkyu_wa_inochi]

All depending on the opponent

And depending on the incoming serve too !

 

[Ghostzen]

So, I think everybody agrees that the best way to return a long serve is with a loop.

If somebody serves short underspin, i'm reasonably good at pushing short close to the net.

But what's the best way to return short serves that are not underspin? (no spin, sidespin, side-under). Generally speaking, I return these short serves with a push. But my pushes always go long. Is that considered acceptable return? I think its really hard to keep this serve short. So usually I just try my best to keep my push low and hope for the best.

So what is the best way to deal with these serves as a general framework?

What's the optimal return you would like off your return to get your strong/prefered shot in?

Also depends on the quality of spin/ serve and level of game as above have mentioned.

If it's short topspin or float, fair to say look to attack if this is where you are comfortable as rule of thumb. Placement is very important. If you can get a wide angle or to elbow/hip then get out to recovery. Definitely makes life harder for the server and easier to get a strong advantage in the early rally.

 

[Doralikesmath]

I flick everything coming to my BH, as I can win pretty much 90% of BH to BH rallies against my club mates except for few semi pros there, and take all the flicks I miss as learning opportunities. On the FH side, if the ball is high enough then I do FH flicks; otherwise, I will try to place the ball back short and waiting for the opportunity to initialize the attack. Occasionally I push long, but very rarely as at my club those long pushes will guarantee some heavy topspin balls coming back to my side.

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

And depending on the incoming serve too !

or just put on a LP and receive the ball with the LP

 

[Amayzde]

The best reterun really depends on what your opponent wants you to do.

Even what you said about the "best way of returning a long serve is to loop" isn't always the right answer. Allthough in table tennis its usually a good thing to attack first. If an opponent serves with the intention of makeing you attack first so he can counter your attack.

I have this one clubmate I play alot against, and most of his serves are long and spinny to my backhand. He knows the only way I can attack that serve is a slow spinny topspin. And as soon as I do that, he punches straight through it.

I found the best way of returning these serves is to not topspin them at all but just return them passively. Then either he has to setup the attack himself (because Im not doing it for him this time), or he gives me a passive ball as well thats easier for me to get a proper attack in.

Same goes for short side-topspin serves. Even though everybody's first response on that serve would be to flick it, if your opponent wants you to flick it and he counters all of your flicks, then you should try something different.

So, whats the best way of returning any serve?
1. Don't make a mistake
2. Don't do what your opponent wants you to do

So before you get in to tunnelvision-mindset on returning every short serve thats not topspin with a short return. Just return the ball long, preferably with a good cut on the ball, and see how your opponent deals with that.

But if you still want to, what are some tips on returning any serve short?
1. Take it as soon off the bounce as possible. Every time the ball touches the table (because of friction between ball and table), the ball will have slightly less spin for a short period (before inertia makes it spin more again).
2. Don't try to add any spin yourself, just touch it and focus on keeping it low. You will need to get the angle right.
3. If you encounter really spinny sidespin serves that make it more difficult to touch short, try to push a little sideways and go with the spin.

 

[Dominikk85]

So, I think everybody agrees that the best way to return a long serve is with a loop.

If somebody serves short underspin, i'm reasonably good at pushing short close to the net.

But what's the best way to return short serves that are not underspin? (no spin, sidespin, side-under). Generally speaking, I return these short serves with a push. But my pushes always go long. Is that considered acceptable return? I think its really hard to keep this serve short. So usually I just try my best to keep my push low and hope for the best.

So what is the best way to deal with these serves as a general framework?

I think it depends.

If you are very good at counter Looping it might be best if you Flick it.

But if you prefer to hit a forehand loop first in the rally it might be good to push back short and get a longer push that you can attack.

Or against some players you maybe can push long if they struggle opening against backspin with either their forehand or backhand

 

[dingyibvs]

So, I think everybody agrees that the best way to return a long serve is with a loop.

If somebody serves short underspin, i'm reasonably good at pushing short close to the net.

But what's the best way to return short serves that are not underspin? (no spin, sidespin, side-under). Generally speaking, I return these short serves with a push. But my pushes always go long. Is that considered acceptable return? I think its really hard to keep this serve short. So usually I just try my best to keep my push low and hope for the best.

So what is the best way to deal with these serves as a general framework?

If you're faced with someone who doesn't open up too well then there's not much point is returning short. I personally like to return short because most of my opponents can open up pretty well on both wings, but most aren't very good at flicks so if I return short and they can't do a quality short return then I can possibly gain an advantage with my FH/BH flick or loop if they push long.

It kind of depends on both you and the opponent. What's uncomfortable for your opponent, and what's uncomfortable for you? For me, I don't feel comfortable on defense, even against weak attacks. That's a weakness of mine so I prefer to push short and open up against both short or long returns by the opponent. However, if I'm playing against someone who can flick short returns/services, like a lot of penholders, I like to return long to their BH side because most near my level aren't great at opening up with their BH even if they play RPB.

 

[NextLevel]

And depending on the incoming serve too !

And there is also a dependence on how you like to play as well. Because if you take the ball off the bounce, you have less time to get off the table to defend. Easier to wait until the ball has come deep, push long while digging into thr ball and then have more time to get back to defend. That is what I try to do just because it gives me more time to defend.