Blades that have similar blade wings to Stiga Allround

[Migzkulit]

I've played with Viscaria for years, but as I improved and incorporated my backhand into my game as an offensive option. The wings on the viscaria gives me a looser grip which makes my BH-FH transitions sloppy. With the stiga allround, there's more safety between the switches as the wing goes lower down the handle. My fingers are a bit long which make the stiga better for me than viscaria. I've noticed that more modern blades have similar wings to viscaria and older blades like xiom feel ax, stiga clipper, stiga infinity vps v etc.

Tl;dr just want to look at some beautiful blades that have similar wings to stiga's. Jk I want a faster blade than this control blade with a hurricane 3 (save my arms).

(Edit), Stiga Master Handle

 

[Migzkulit]

How do I turn Viscaria's wing from this to Stiga's shape?

 

[Scarfed Garchomp]

Stiga blades have bigger wings than a Viscaria. You would need to use some additive manufacturing like fitting epoxy putty or extra wood onto the wings to make them larger

 

[Wakkibatty]

How do I turn Viscaria's wing from this to Stiga's shape?

ITTF rules prevent adding anything to a blade that may increase the effective size of the playing area. These additions however would be on the handle well below the blade's rubbers, so you should be okay to use such a blade in comps.

To modify a blade the way you describe, you could use almost anything you like -- modelling clay, or dense balsa / Kiri glued on then sanded seem the obvious methods... But I doubt you will get the effect you are after with either approach frankly.

Blades with longer wings tend to give you better control geometrically, as they provide better triangulation of forces between the edges of your blade's sweet spot and the centre of your palm (assuming you play shakehand and the blade's handle runs down the middle of your hand).

The trade off being, longer wings typically also means less flex, as you're also adding triangulation to an area of the blade that's supposed to flex. Unless you then compensate for this stiffness by slightly modifying your blade's ply sandwich dimensions, blades with longer wings will often end up being stiff as a board.

Adding extra material to your blade however probably won't increase your control in this instance, as it's not intrinsically part of the blade's panel. The core ply doesn't run through your additions, so it's not going to provide you extra control or extra feedback, only some extra weight and bulk on the blade's handle.

Also, if the weight you add on each wing is unequal, you run the risk of throwing your blade's balance off along the central axis of symmetry. This may effect the rotation forces you feel during impact -- not very much mind you, but potentially just enough to be noticeable.

If you want a blade with extra long wings for more control, try a traditional DHS shape. There are some blades that have longer wings than DHS, but to my mind it's too much of a good thing - those blades are just too uncomfortable to hold, whereas the DHS shape tends to hit that sweet spot between extra wing-control vs sufficient grip comfort.

Note I said a DHS shape, not a DHS blade. Xiom tends to clone either DHS or Butterfly when it comes to blade design (as do many others), so you don't have to use a DHS blade unless you want to.

Haven't used many Stiga blades / Stiga shape blades myself, so I can't comment on them. Though looking at your photos, the Stiga's wings seem just a tiny smidge shorter down the handle than the traditional DHS shape.

 

[allfj]

Idk what a blade wing is, but you can try adding some grip tape to it. I know they sell it at tabletennis11, but most local shops or online shops have them. You can also try putting some tennis grip if that helps

 

[Migzkulit]

ITTF rules prevent adding anything to a blade that may increase the effective size of the playing area. These additions however would be on the handle well below the blade's rubbers, so you should be okay to use such a blade in comps.

To modify a blade the way you describe, you could use almost anything you like -- modelling clay, or dense balsa / Kiri glued on then sanded seem the obvious methods... But I doubt you will get the effect you are after with either approach frankly.

Blades with longer wings tend to give you better control geometrically, as they provide better triangulation of forces between the edges of your blade's sweet spot and the centre of your palm (assuming you play shakehand and the blade's handle runs down the middle of your hand).

The trade off being, longer wings typically also means less flex, as you're also adding triangulation to an area of the blade that's supposed to flex. Unless you then compensate for this stiffness by slightly modifying your blade's ply sandwich dimensions, blades with longer wings will often end up being stiff as a board.

Adding extra material to your blade however probably won't increase your control in this instance, as it's not intrinsically part of the blade's panel. The core ply doesn't run through your additions, so it's not going to provide you extra control or extra feedback, only some extra weight and bulk on the blade's handle.

Also, if the weight you add on each wing is unequal, you run the risk of throwing your blade's balance off along the central axis of symmetry. This may effect the rotation forces you feel during impact -- not very much mind you, but potentially just enough to be noticeable.

If you want a blade with extra long wings for more control, try a traditional DHS shape. There are some blades that have longer wings than DHS, but to my mind it's too much of a good thing - those blades are just too uncomfortable to hold, whereas the DHS shape tends to hit that sweet spot between extra wing-control vs sufficient grip comfort.

Note I said a DHS shape, not a DHS blade. Xiom tends to clone either DHS or Butterfly when it comes to blade design (as do many others), so you don't have to use a DHS blade unless you want to.

Haven't used many Stiga blades / Stiga shape blades myself, so I can't comment on them. Though looking at your photos, the Stiga's wings seem just a tiny smidge shorter down the handle than the traditional DHS shape.

How do I search for what blades have a DHS shape? I'm looking for something like viscaria or an innerforce alc type composition. Basically alc or similar. I know stiga has inspira but it's pretty expensive.

 

[Wakkibatty]

How do I search for what blades have a DHS shape? I'm looking for something like viscaria or an innerforce alc type composition. Basically alc or similar. I know stiga has inspira but it's pretty expensive.

Finding a DHS shaped blade is easy, as it's pretty widely used by a number of manufacturers

The key features of a classic DHS shape are:

• 260mm blade length
• 150mm playing surface width
• 100mm long handle scales
• 30mm wing length from top of scale to fulcrum
• A slightly more oval head profile (compared to a Butterfly or Donic)

A combination of the Wing length and that slightly more oval head profile is the easiest ways to spot one.

These differences are subtle viewed in isolation, but are far easier to spot with a side-by-side comparison:

The four blades above are arranged in descending wing length order -- longest wings on the left, shortest on the right.

All blades are between 257mm - 260mm long, and have a handle length between 100 - 105mm.

You measure wing length by how far the wings extend down the handle. You start at the very top of the handle scale (where the rubber and handle meet) and go down as far as the fulcrum (ie: the bottom-most point of the wing's triangle - it's the point where the outer edges of the blade's profile meets up with the edge of the handle)

Blade 1 was made by Loki - Wing Length: 40mm
Blade 2 was made by DHS (ie: the classic DHS shape) - Wing length: 30mm
Blades 3 and 4 were made by me:

• Blade 3 is a 6.5mm one-ply with a custom hybrid shape of my own design - Wing length: 20mm
• Blade 4 is a custom clone of a Donic Cayman (balsa core & medials | Blackheart Sassafras outers). It features a classic Donic Shape - Wing Length: 15mm

If you compare blades one and four, the difference in their wing length is obvious.

The difference in wing length between blades 1 and 2 or blades 2 and 3 a bit harder to spot at first, but a measuring tape tells you there's a 20mm difference between 1 and 3, and a 10mm difference between 1 and 2.

As for head shape, if you compare Blades 1 and 4 with Blade 2, you can see that Blade 2 is significantly more oval shaped than blade 1 or 3 but is very similar to Blade 4 - but if you were to see them up close (or better yet lay them on top of each other) you'd see that blade 2 is slightly more oval than Blade 4.

Butterfly, Donic and DHS shapes are all quite similar if you only look at their head shape - its the longer 30mm wing length on the DHS blade that gives them away.

Hope this helps

 

[Scarfed Garchomp]

How do I search for what blades have a DHS shape? I'm looking for something like viscaria or an innerforce alc type composition. Basically alc or similar. I know stiga has inspira but it's pretty expensive.

DHS TG506x- Viscaria structure
DHS PG5, Fang Bo carbon/2, Long V/W968- Innerforce ALC structure

 

[Migzkulit]

Finding a DHS shaped blade is easy, as it's pretty widely used by a number of manufacturers

The key features of a classic DHS shape are:

• 260mm blade length
• 150mm playing surface width
• 100mm long handle scales
• 30mm wing length from top of scale to fulcrum
• A slightly more oval head profile (compared to a Butterfly or Donic)

A combination of the Wing length and that slightly more oval head profile is the easiest ways to spot one.

These differences are subtle viewed in isolation, but are far easier to spot with a side-by-side comparison:

View attachment 25088


The four blades above are arranged in descending wing length order -- longest wings on the left, shortest on the right.

All blades are between 257mm - 260mm long, and have a handle length between 100 - 105mm.

You measure wing length by how far the wings extend down the handle. You start at the very top of the handle scale (where the rubber and handle meet) and go down as far as the fulcrum (ie: the bottom-most point of the wing's triangle - it's the point where the outer edges of the blade's profile meets up with the edge of the handle)

Blade 1 was made by Loki - Wing Length: 40mm
Blade 2 was made by DHS (ie: the classic DHS shape) - Wing length: 30mm
Blades 3 and 4 were made by me:

• Blade 3 is a 6.5mm one-ply with a custom hybrid shape of my own design - Wing length: 20mm
• Blade 4 is a custom clone of a Donic Cayman (balsa core & medials | Blackheart Sassafras outers). It features a classic Donic Shape - Wing Length: 15mm

If you compare blades one and four, the difference in their wing length is obvious.

The difference in wing length between blades 1 and 2 or blades 2 and 3 a bit harder to spot at first, but a measuring tape tells you there's a 20mm difference between 1 and 3, and a 10mm difference between 1 and 2.

As for head shape, if you compare Blades 1 and 4 with Blade 2, you can see that Blade 2 is significantly more oval shaped than blade 1 or 3 but is very similar to Blade 4 - but if you were to see them up close (or better yet lay them on top of each other) you'd see that blade 2 is slightly more oval than Blade 4.

Butterfly, Donic and DHS shapes are all quite similar if you only look at their head shape - its the longer 30mm wing length on the DHS blade that gives them away.

Hope this helps

That was very informative, a 2 cm difference is a lot. The viscaria makes my middle finger free moving but the stiga is more secure. I never noticed the oval shape until now. But my problem is more on the angle of the wing. A steep change to vertical makes my finger slip, a more relaxed like stiga's makes it safer.

 

[Wakkibatty]

That was very informative, a 2 cm difference is a lot. The viscaria makes my middle finger free moving but the stiga is more secure. I never noticed the oval shape until now. But my problem is more on the angle of the wing. A steep change to vertical makes my finger slip, a more relaxed like stiga's makes it safer.

Yeah - as a bladesmith, getting the wing shape right is a tough one.

When I was developing that one-ply design (Blade 3), I ended up making seven different drafts -- with the only major changes between them all being around the length, shape and gradient of the wings and the bottom third of the blade's playing surface.

It's actually (IMO) the most important curve on a blade, as tiny differences here can make a considerable difference to the way the blade handles (you sometimes also need to make minor adjustments to these curves depending on the make-up of the blade's wood sandwich).

 

[Migzkulit]

Right now I'm researching about Tmount as here in Thailand they have stock at super cheap prices. Trying to compare them to the Stiga has been hard. They are ~50 USD and ~71 USD respectively which is gonna save my wallet from getting butterfly-level pricing. I can definitely see that the two blades have a bit of a difference in this wing and I'm going in person to feel it out. Xiom is around ~50 USD as well.

Honestly two birds with one stone as me using boosted h3 and viscaria feels too fast now. A softer composition, rare blade (in my view) and my blade issues. I don't know what I'll do with my viscaria though.

*Edit: Upon closer inspection the wing shape of the Tmount blades are the same as the viscaria's maybe a little longer but not substantially.

 

[Migzkulit]

Right now I'm researching about Tmount as here in Thailand they have stock at super cheap prices. Trying to compare them to the Stiga has been hard. They are ~50 USD and ~71 USD respectively which is gonna save my wallet from getting butterfly-level pricing. I can definitely see that the two blades have a bit of a difference in this wing and I'm going in person to feel it out. Xiom is around ~50 USD as well.

Honestly two birds with one stone as me using boosted h3 and viscaria feels too fast now. A softer composition, rare blade (in my view) and my blade issues. I don't know what I'll do with my viscaria though.

*Edit: Upon closer inspection the wing shape of the Tmount blades are the same as the viscaria's maybe a little longer but not substantially.

Update: got the KTS 570, definitely an HL5 composition. Compared to Viscaria it is right up there and even faster. I put H3 and V>15 (comparable to a 50-degree rubber in weight) and the thing is a beast. Became head heavy at only 182 grams. The handle and wing has a difference, the wing length is at ~30 mm vs viscaria's 25mm while the handle is smaller in width than the viscaria at the top (~2mm difference). The shape is like viscaria's but the longer wing gives me a better sense of security alongside the thinner handle. The xiom feel had too small of a handle but the wing was fine.

 

[Wakkibatty]

Update: got the KTS 570, definitely an HL5 composition. Compared to Viscaria it is right up there and even faster. I put H3 and V>15 (comparable to a 50-degree rubber in weight) and the thing is a beast. Became head heavy at only 182 grams. The handle and wing has a difference, the wing length is at ~30 mm vs viscaria's 25mm while the handle is smaller in width than the viscaria at the top (~2mm difference). The shape is like viscaria's but the longer wing gives me a better sense of security alongside the thinner handle. The xiom feel had too small of a handle but the wing was fine.

Hey well done - glad to hear you got it sorted out and that you found a blade that suits you more than the viscaria. 🙂

You mentioned you don't know what you want to do with your Viscaria. If you've decided to get rid of it, please let me know with a DM. Happy to put in an offer on it, or else to do a straight swap - one of my new blades for your second hand viscaria. I've been meaning to grab one for a while purely for analysis purposes, so I can do a side by side comparison for my customers (knowing what goes into making a blade, I refuse to pay Butterfly prices for a new one, as in my view it's an absolute rip off).

Hope the new blade works out well for you. 🙂👍