Boosting ESN or spring sponges??

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So one would think the new Hybrid rubbers are aimed at the Asian market (tacky with tensor speed), not at the European market where tacky rubbers never played a huge role, nevertheless companies suggest that this is "now" what is desired because of "the plastic ball" and the loss of rotation.

Different brands had different marketing strategies, but ESN was straight to the point. Tibhar was straightforward as well.

ESN: Another focus was the development of products with specific properties for the Chinese market.

11/2016
http://m.dku51.com/article-7739.html
Q:中国球迷的增收有使用粘性套胶的习惯,现在挺拔也有针对中国市场的粘性套胶K1,能跟我们聊聊K1在设计上的细节吗?

克里斯道夫:K1系列是我们公司专门针对中国市场研发,因此我们选择了中国球迷普遍容易接受的粘性套胶去开发产品。K1系列又两个特点,第一是面胶自带粘性,并非中国式的“盖胶”,这种自带粘性的面胶不仅更细腻,而且更持久。其次,K1系列使用的都是高弹性的蛋糕海绵,并且硬度都要略高于传统的德国海绵。K1的硬度时50(相当于邵氏硬度36-37),新品挺拔K1 Plus乒乓球胶皮的硬度时52.5(相当于邵氏硬度39-40)。
Q: Chinese fans have the habit of using tacky rubber on FH. Now there is the tacky rubber K1 for the Chinese market. Can you talk to us about the design details of K1?

Christoph Wagner: The K1 series is developed by our company specifically for the Chinese market, so we chose the tacky rubber that is generally accepted by Chinese fans to develop products. The K1 series has two characteristics. The first is that the topsheet comes with its own tackiness, not the Chinese-style "cover rubber". This kind of tacky topsheet is not only more delicate, but also more durable. Secondly, the K1 series uses highly elastic porous sponge, and the hardness is slightly higher than that of traditional German sponge. The hardness of K1 is 50 (equivalent to 36-37 Shore A hardness), and the hardness of the new K1 Plus is 52.5 (equivalent to 39-40 Shore A hardness).

10/2019
http://www.dku51.com/article-11119.html
TTW:中国市场和欧洲市场有何不同?挺拔公司有没有针对中国市场做特别的规划?

克里斯道夫:中欧市场有何不同,这个可以分很多方面来讨论。一方面,中国市场更大,可能比整个欧洲市场都大。中国有一些传统是欧洲国家没有的。另一方面,相比欧洲市场,中国市场和中国选手有不同的需求。作为一个乒乓球品牌,现在我们集中在一些个性化产品和中国市场需要的产品。在过去这些年,我们和中国的合作伙伴一起开发了多款胶皮,类似粘性的胶面;还有发展了服装和鞋子的生产线(这主要是挺拔中国的工作),以及一切市场需求的相关乒乓球装备和附件,比如球台、球和鞋服箱包。根据中国市场的独特需求,生产和上市更多在其他国家未曾发布的产品,这是我们的大致计划。

TTW:器材方面欧洲选手和亚洲亚洲选手有何不同,挺拔公司在为亚洲特别是中国运动员器材设计方面有没有心得和想法?

克里斯道夫:中国和欧洲乒乓市场、业务和产品一个主要的不同是:在中国,大多数人甚至几乎所有人都要求MAX厚度的海绵;在欧洲,选手的选择范围从MAX、2.0、1.8甚至到1.6mm。初学者一般会选择厚度较薄的海绵。而在中国,极少选手要求MAX以下厚度的。在欧洲,各种厚度的胶皮数量可能差不多,在中国和其他亚洲国家,会更多地选择MAX厚度。另外一个不同是:我有一种印象,亚洲选手在寻找更强有力、更快速、更硬的产品,打法上更积极凶狠,意图“统治”对手;欧洲选手的打法更偏向于全面,根据对手的击球来采取不同的对策。这是我到了中国和其他亚洲国家后,对比欧洲的最大感受。
TTW: What is the difference between the Chinese market and the European market? Does Tibhar have any special plans for the Chinese market?

Christoph: What is the difference between the Chinese and European markets? This can be discussed in many ways. On the one hand, the Chinese market is even larger, possibly larger than the entire European market. China has some traditions that European countries do not have. On the other hand, compared to the European market, the Chinese market and Chinese players have different needs. As a table tennis brand, we now focus on some personalized products and products that the Chinese market needs. In the past few years, we and our Chinese partners have developed a variety of rubbers, tacky-like topsheet; we have also developed production lines for clothing and shoes (mainly the jobs of Tibhar China), as well as all relevant table tennis equipment and accessories the market needs, such as tables, balls, shoes, clothes and bags. According to the unique needs of the Chinese market, we will produce and market more products that have not been released in other countries. This is our general plan.

TTW: In terms of equipment, what is the difference between European players and Asian players? Does Tibhar have any experience and ideas in designing equipment for Asia, especially Chinese athletes?

Christoph: One major difference between Chinese and European markets, business and products of table tennis is: In China, most people or almost everyone require MAX sponge; in Europe, players can choose from MAX, 2.0, 1.8 and even 1.6mm. Beginners will generally choose a thinner sponge. In China, very few players require thickness below MAX. In Europe, the number of rubbers of various thicknesses may be about the same, but in China and other Asian countries, MAX thicknesses are more preferred. Another difference is: I have the impression that Asian players are looking for stronger, faster, and harder products, and their play styles are more aggressive and fierce, with the intention to "dominate" their opponents; European players tend to be more comprehensive, are used to take different countermeasures according to the opponent's shots. This is the biggest feeling I have compared to Europe after arriving in China and other Asian countries.
 
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says Shoo...nothing to see here. - zeio
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All current/modern Tibhar rubbers are produced by ESN.

That's why I wrote "different brands..., but ESN..." The brands could be saying one thing(as pointed out in your previous post), but ESN is the one that sets the tone.

For those interested, I started a thread in 2017 about the preference of the Chinese market and the perception of ESN there.

http://mytabletennis.net/forum/foru...s-west-theres-more-than-meets-the-eyes#989736
ESN stuff like Omega, Sigma, Bluefire, Rasant, Rhyzm etc. are nothing but pips options and sponge specs that ESN present to the various brands, from which they choose a combination and then pick a color. These brands do not possess any tech. It is all in the hands of ESN. All rubbers have the same base performance. Little changes of emphasis then led to all these messy derivatives. In the end, it still gets seckilled by Tenergy. ESN is stymied by a bottleneck now.
 
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says Shoo...nothing to see here. - zeio
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As zyu81 and Carl mentioned, those in China that play with Tenergy/Tensors on FH use them because they don't want the bother of boosting and they boost them most often after the factory tuning has worn off to get some more life out of them, or if they don't like the feel when new(more often than not after they lost to those they didn't with the new rubbers).
 
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says toooooo much choice!!
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(QUOTE=Airoc;318291]I think the last two points have the valid questions one should ask before thinking about boosting.

1. Do I need it? If someone plays internationally or in national leagues, quite probably a little extra work is necessary to squeeze even more performance out of a rubber.
But for the vast majority of players there are so many rubbers out there meanwhile that tuning is not needed.

2. Do I want it? There is enough information about how tuning improves the performance of a rubber. And maybe players from lower leagues want it too. After all, it can be part of the hobby´s fascination - I have a friend who has a ritual of boosting t05 Hard until it resembles t05 fx, just not as good. But it makes him happy.
But beware that it is quite some hassle, even after you have found out how much booster your rubber actually needs to be ideal for you (this can take some time and some rubbers may well be ruined along the way ...). If you have the free time and the money, you might just go for it.[/QUOTE]

1) Well do I need it ?
For ESN or Spring sponge - NO
For H3/ H3 Nat blue sponge - NO

2) Do I want I t ?
i wanted to TRY a boosted rubber!!!!!
Start of lockdown in the UK, 1st week in ordered rubbers and Falco long term booster, rubbers were Battle 2 provincial (blue sponge) and Battle 2 provincial . Wanted to try them as I had used the normal Battle 2 and had liked it.
also ordered Standard H3 red, 2.1mm, which was the ‘trial‘ rubber I chose to boost.
anyway applied thin coat of glue, then over 3 nights a total of 3 layers of booster, the sheet domed up as I had seen on a couple of videos, then 7 days later was still domed !!!!!!! It was like watching paint dry !!!!!
eventually it sort of went down, so I glued it on a blade and made sure it was well compressed and weighted down.
End result was a nice softer version of H3 with slightly more speed, tack still really good, holds the ball for 4+ seconds easily. Spin similar +
was it worth the time spent waiting NO Freaking way !!!!!
10 weeks later and I HAD the urge to test H3 Nat blue sponge boosted, took it easier this time, glue plus 3 layers booster as previously, thinner coats of booster, domed but much less, rubber felt flappy(er) than the un-boosted sheet.
glued it on and was disappointed, still hard feel, small difference in speed, spin same. I think 3 layers somewhere in between the 2 thicknesses I tried would have been better for the H3 Nat, too much agro and time !!!!!

DO I NOW NEED IT?

NO, it’s not for me either!!!!
 
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says Spin and more spin.
says Spin and more spin.
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(QUOTE=Airoc;318291].....

DO I NOW NEED IT?

NO, it’s not for me either!!!!

If you would like Airoc's post to appear in an actual quote bubble then you should edit and change this:

(QUOTE=Airoc;318291]

So that the bracket before the letter Q is this [ instead of this (. That would change it to this:

If I see that happens, I will delete my post. :)
 
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control (from easy to difficult): Often inversely proportional to the bounce. However, some new technologies can increase the relative control without sacrificing bounce, such as TSP's Relfex PAT System.

Lol, Relfex PAT System. What's next? Micro-chiped rubbers to correct contact angles?
 
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Posting in threads like this is almost like BEATING A DEAD HORSE as Americans might say...

beating-a-dead-horse-gif-11.jpg
 
says toooooo much choice!!
says toooooo much choice!!
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If you would like Airoc's post to appear in an actual quote bubble then you should edit and change this:

(QUOTE=Airoc;318291]

So that the bracket before the letter Q is this [ instead of this (. That would change it to this:

If I see that happens, I will delete my post. :)

Hi,
I saw an error in my text just as i hit the ‘post quick reply’, then saw another box pop up saying something like ‘recall post’
no doubt I’ll see this when I post this reply!!! So I recalled and edited my post correcting the error!! I had no intention of removing the bubble containing Airoc’s post.
So apologies for my error !!
hopefully this time I’ll be an
 
says toooooo much choice!!
says toooooo much choice!!
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If you would like Airoc's post to appear in an actual quote bubble then you should edit and change this:

(QUOTE=Airoc;318291]

So that the bracket before the letter Q is this [ instead of this (. That would change it to this:



Hi,
I saw an error in my text just as i hit the ‘post quick reply’, then saw another box pop up saying something like ‘recall post’
no doubt I’ll see this when I post this reply!!! So I recalled and edited my post correcting the error!! I had no intention of removing the bubble containing Airoc’s post.
So apologies for my error !!
hopefully this time I’ll be an ������ rather than a ������!!!

it also appears that ‘smilie faces’ appear as 6 freakin’ question marks!!!!! Last time I try that!!!
 
says Spin and more spin.
says Spin and more spin.
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it also appears that ‘smilie faces’ appear as 6 freakin’ question marks!!!!! Last time I try that!!!

Interesting. :) Lets see what happens to my smiley faces. :)

I would not think of any of this as an error or something that needs to be corrected. I just was giving you the code to fix things if you wanted. Not a problem either way.
 
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says toooooo much choice!!
says toooooo much choice!!
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Interesting. :) Lets see what happens to my smiley faces. :)

I would not think of any of this as an error or something that needs to be corrected. I just was giving you the code to fix things if you wanted. Not a problem either way.


;);),
total techno retard!!! Tried using the smiley faces from keyboard drop down
 
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says Spin and more spin.
says Spin and more spin.
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;);),
total techno retard!!! Tried using the smiley faces from keyboard drop down

The site is doing something funny to code though. Not sure why or how or why.

Anyway, the important part here on our forum is the interest in Table Tennis. Tech savvy doesn't matter. :)
 
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I've tried boosting ESN or Euro rubbers (Razkas, Bluefires, Acudas). I've also used a boosted H3 for a year. I was using Dandoy's bio booster, which you can buy online. I usually apply the same amount of booster layers, leaving it to dry full 24 hours after the last layer.

My conclusion is, personally, it enhances Chinese tacky and dense sponges but it damages euro-style rubbers. For chinese rubbers it enhanced feeling, speed, making it more manageable. In ESN based rubbers it turned them into mushy and unresponsive rubbers.
 
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