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Shoo...nothing to see here. - zeio
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Zeio
if this is child abuse
you much check the scheduling of WJC
if a kid does well in all 3 entries, they play non stop
if this is child abuse
you much check the scheduling of WJC
if a kid does well in all 3 entries, they play non stop
says
CHOLE
says
CHOLE
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it's a tongue in cheek comment, referring to a similar video of a Chinese girl which zeio posted recently. Piers Morgan and some other folks argued you can't do that to a child, laughable argument really.
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If the girls/boys in the video cry I'd agree However, they all look happy, smiling, laughing and genuinely having fun.
This is a better example of child abuse. All the kids in the video looked like they were forced to play and pretended like they were so happy.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pl6f_XwMhMM
This is a better example of child abuse. All the kids in the video looked like they were forced to play and pretended like they were so happy.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pl6f_XwMhMM
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They look very happy indeed as this camp is run by prefect. Parents, club coaches and school coaches tend to push kids lot harder.
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Shoo...nothing to see here. - zeio
While our kidults flog a dead rubber in the WJTTC thread, Japan is wasting no time in learning from China.
https://headlines.yahoo.co.jp/hl?a=20181206-00010000-jij-spo&p=1
The Place Where Mizutani and Ito Grew Up
About how the competition in recruiting kids among different sports has intensified, and how early education, the key for Japan to get back the throne, has entered a new phase.
And how many kids do not warm up properly and complain about shoulder pain in their teens, so they want to get them into that habit early on, citing China as an example.
For the training, they put a metronome, set to 185 bpm, next to the table, and get the kids to hit with the coach at that speed, instead of keeping the ball in play without missing. They want them to experience the speed Ito and Harimoto play at.
Next, high spin training, where robot shoots balls at 150 rpm, and the kids have to stop them.
In the afternoon, it's league play. 1st in place will get to join the 2018 Hopes National Team training camp.
Many of the participants started at the age of 2 or 3.
About how the early education started in 2001, the year when Japan finished 13th at the WTTC, their worst-ever result. Miyazaki assumed the post of director for the men's team in October that year with the condition that "a national team made up of elementary school students" be formed. In that December, for the 1st class, the slogan was "whatever you can do with FH should be doable with BH as well." And so, the Japanese-style table tennis reform begun.
How the excitement brought about by Fukuhara since 2001 led to the emergence of Mizutani, Kishikawa, Matsu-ken and Ishikawa. How their early growth spurt, delicate touch, and balanced FH and BH style give them the confidence they're on the right track.
And now Ito, Hirano and Harimoto with their revolutionary super high-speed offensive table tennis are giving China grief. They all picked up the racket at 2 or 3.
Haneyoshi TT Club owner Junko Haneyoshi(AKA Li Jun, CNT coach Li Sun's sister) says when they started 9 years ago, they could recruit only one to two 5-year-old kids. Nowadays, they get 4-year-old kids enrolling without breaking a sweat.
Miyazaki explains the emphasis on early education, citing that human reflex peaks at the age of 12, backed by medical science, and tapers off after that. So, they want to tap into that as much as possible before 12, such that given the higher threshold, they'll be faster than other foreigners even if they slow down later in life.
With the 2032 Olympics as the target, the system in which promising elementary school students are culled by match results, academic tests, physical fitness tests etc. is set in motion.
Now onto stuff about China. In the 80's, Xu Shaofa was invited to Japan as a consultant and asked "what is the best age to start table tennis?" He answered, "6, not early, not late, just the right time. This is widely accepted in China." China still follows that principle to this day.
Zhang Yining started at 6. ZYL and WMY at 5. For WMY, "In China, kids start roughly at 5 or 6. I haven't heard much about the benefit of starting earlier."
Xi Enting visited Japan in April 1973 and held the same view, citing concerns of joint damage and bad habits from poor strokes.
Yu Harimoto, Harimoto's dad was consulted as well. "Starting at 5 is not late. Tomokazu started by picking up balls. Not because I thought about starting early, but it might be better to learn the touch and pace. The sooner the better.
Ex-CNT player Seiko Iseki(formerly Wei Qingguang) said "Starting before 6 wouldn't help solidify the style. Many Japanese parents are anxious, having their kids start before the age of 3. I say that's not necessary. Starting in the last year of preschool is just fine. Kids might grow tired of playing if they start too early."
About how parents could get in the way. Though not limited to table tennis, parents tend to emphasize on short-term victories, which poses a problem on site. During league play, Miyazaki had to ask them not to get too heated when cheering. On the last day, Mizutani's mom Mikiko-san appeared as guest to share her experience and stories with the other parents.
There was also a tooth-brushing course. Miyazaki noted that many children who play table tennis are bothered by tooth decay around the age of 15. Top players should manage their lives properly, one of which is tooth-brushing. It's mentioned some parents have weird habits.
Haneyoshi-san points out the difference between Japan and China. Japanese players are good in matchplay because they play so many of them since a young age. OTOH, Chinese players focus on fundamentals and thus are not as good at first. It's hard to say which approach is better, but it still comes down to fundamentals.
Shinichi Marukawa, director of TT club Marukawa, says "starting early isn't necessarily advantageous. It's how kids become attached to table tennis and feel they want to play it themselves instead of making them play it."
Miyazaki points out that many factors can affect the growth curve, "there's no stats, but there is plenty of cases where kids with a smaller stature reach higher heights but kids with better physique quit later on."
As I've pointed out numerous times, JNT is going about TT more and more like CNT by the day. To put it in context, now Japan wants to kick-start their kids at the age of 3, whereas kids in China usually start at 6, and receive expert training roughly at 10.
https://headlines.yahoo.co.jp/hl?a=20181206-00010000-jij-spo&p=1
3 for Japan, 6 for China - What Age to Start Table Tennis?
The Place Where Mizutani and Ito Grew Up
About how the competition in recruiting kids among different sports has intensified, and how early education, the key for Japan to get back the throne, has entered a new phase.
And how many kids do not warm up properly and complain about shoulder pain in their teens, so they want to get them into that habit early on, citing China as an example.
For the training, they put a metronome, set to 185 bpm, next to the table, and get the kids to hit with the coach at that speed, instead of keeping the ball in play without missing. They want them to experience the speed Ito and Harimoto play at.
Next, high spin training, where robot shoots balls at 150 rpm, and the kids have to stop them.
In the afternoon, it's league play. 1st in place will get to join the 2018 Hopes National Team training camp.
Many of the participants started at the age of 2 or 3.
BH Revolution of the Teens Has Begun
About how the early education started in 2001, the year when Japan finished 13th at the WTTC, their worst-ever result. Miyazaki assumed the post of director for the men's team in October that year with the condition that "a national team made up of elementary school students" be formed. In that December, for the 1st class, the slogan was "whatever you can do with FH should be doable with BH as well." And so, the Japanese-style table tennis reform begun.
How the excitement brought about by Fukuhara since 2001 led to the emergence of Mizutani, Kishikawa, Matsu-ken and Ishikawa. How their early growth spurt, delicate touch, and balanced FH and BH style give them the confidence they're on the right track.
And now Ito, Hirano and Harimoto with their revolutionary super high-speed offensive table tennis are giving China grief. They all picked up the racket at 2 or 3.
Haneyoshi TT Club owner Junko Haneyoshi(AKA Li Jun, CNT coach Li Sun's sister) says when they started 9 years ago, they could recruit only one to two 5-year-old kids. Nowadays, they get 4-year-old kids enrolling without breaking a sweat.
Miyazaki explains the emphasis on early education, citing that human reflex peaks at the age of 12, backed by medical science, and tapers off after that. So, they want to tap into that as much as possible before 12, such that given the higher threshold, they'll be faster than other foreigners even if they slow down later in life.
With the 2032 Olympics as the target, the system in which promising elementary school students are culled by match results, academic tests, physical fitness tests etc. is set in motion.
"Fine to start at 6" China the Champion
Now onto stuff about China. In the 80's, Xu Shaofa was invited to Japan as a consultant and asked "what is the best age to start table tennis?" He answered, "6, not early, not late, just the right time. This is widely accepted in China." China still follows that principle to this day.
Zhang Yining started at 6. ZYL and WMY at 5. For WMY, "In China, kids start roughly at 5 or 6. I haven't heard much about the benefit of starting earlier."
Xi Enting visited Japan in April 1973 and held the same view, citing concerns of joint damage and bad habits from poor strokes.
Yu Harimoto, Harimoto's dad was consulted as well. "Starting at 5 is not late. Tomokazu started by picking up balls. Not because I thought about starting early, but it might be better to learn the touch and pace. The sooner the better.
Ex-CNT player Seiko Iseki(formerly Wei Qingguang) said "Starting before 6 wouldn't help solidify the style. Many Japanese parents are anxious, having their kids start before the age of 3. I say that's not necessary. Starting in the last year of preschool is just fine. Kids might grow tired of playing if they start too early."
Parental Awareness Also An Issue
About how parents could get in the way. Though not limited to table tennis, parents tend to emphasize on short-term victories, which poses a problem on site. During league play, Miyazaki had to ask them not to get too heated when cheering. On the last day, Mizutani's mom Mikiko-san appeared as guest to share her experience and stories with the other parents.
There was also a tooth-brushing course. Miyazaki noted that many children who play table tennis are bothered by tooth decay around the age of 15. Top players should manage their lives properly, one of which is tooth-brushing. It's mentioned some parents have weird habits.
Haneyoshi-san points out the difference between Japan and China. Japanese players are good in matchplay because they play so many of them since a young age. OTOH, Chinese players focus on fundamentals and thus are not as good at first. It's hard to say which approach is better, but it still comes down to fundamentals.
Shinichi Marukawa, director of TT club Marukawa, says "starting early isn't necessarily advantageous. It's how kids become attached to table tennis and feel they want to play it themselves instead of making them play it."
Miyazaki points out that many factors can affect the growth curve, "there's no stats, but there is plenty of cases where kids with a smaller stature reach higher heights but kids with better physique quit later on."
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Shoo...nothing to see here. - zeio
Nice timing. Was going to post about them. For those unfamiliar, Matsushima is one ambitious table tennis family. They have an impressive family tree. Both dad Takashi and mom Yumi are former players and now coach at Tasaka Takkyu Kaikan. They have 4 kids, Sora, Toa, Miku and Aira.
If I'm not mistaken, that's his dad Takashi feeding in the video.
@5:26, you get to see more child abuse, in case you missed it the last time I posted.
<iframe src="https://archive.org/embed/110302_d27450e_ttsmash31" width="640" height="480" frameborder="0" webkitallowfullscreen="true" mozallowfullscreen="true" allowfullscreen></iframe>
It's rather mild compared to Morizono.
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Morizono's dad does not mess about:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xwvZ3nxrzQQ&feature=youtu.be&t=145
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xwvZ3nxrzQQ&feature=youtu.be&t=145
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Yes, I was a little torn between admiring the dedication (he must have thought it was "for your own good", and of course Mori didn't do half bad) and thinking I'd kick him in the balls, if I was his son.
Who realised, ten years into the game, that it could actually be enjoyed...
At some point you have to wonder, as a parent, what success really means.
Who realised, ten years into the game, that it could actually be enjoyed...
At some point you have to wonder, as a parent, what success really means.
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Zeio, thanks a lot for your time and effort to translate all these videos, highly appreciated!
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This is quite sad. Let's have fun and he had never even associated it or thought of it as a possibility. That footage is scary too, closer to fitting the title than the OP.
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I would recommend all wood.
Samsonov Alpha sgs is the...
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Good education, that.
Force the exceptional out of your kid while his brain is developing, give him a cush life and a profession. Those people will lack for nothing in life. At best they could be phenoms in their field and at worst they could be extremely sought after coaches and teachers.
It's one of the world's greatest shames that not all parents put their children through this 'abuse', and I'd be ashamed had I not been working with my kids the same way.
It's the same thing Susan and Judith Polgar's dad did with his daughters. He forced them to become chess prodigies. Judith became the best female chess player of all time, not even bothering with the womens field in chess and beating the men grandmasters left and right, which was at the time and still is pretty much unheard of.
It's the reason we have Ma Long, FZD and the huge majority of all top 100s
Force the exceptional out of your kid while his brain is developing, give him a cush life and a profession. Those people will lack for nothing in life. At best they could be phenoms in their field and at worst they could be extremely sought after coaches and teachers.
It's one of the world's greatest shames that not all parents put their children through this 'abuse', and I'd be ashamed had I not been working with my kids the same way.
It's the same thing Susan and Judith Polgar's dad did with his daughters. He forced them to become chess prodigies. Judith became the best female chess player of all time, not even bothering with the womens field in chess and beating the men grandmasters left and right, which was at the time and still is pretty much unheard of.
It's the reason we have Ma Long, FZD and the huge majority of all top 100s
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Yes the Polgars are a good example, as are many others. Speaking honestly, I wish I had received a tenth of that attention from my own father and may have found more sense of achievement in some things down the line, hence the first part of my answer.
But is there no way to do that without the humiliation?.. Not sure the Polgar sisters had chess pieces thrown at their faces?
But is there no way to do that without the humiliation?.. Not sure the Polgar sisters had chess pieces thrown at their faces?
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I would recommend all wood.
Samsonov Alpha sgs is the...
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That's a good question lol.
Not everyone is equally competent an educator.
I think in this regard that deliberate humiliation is the weakest tool, and envy/competition (also a kind of humiliation) is the strongest tool.
But I'm not a professor of psychology or whatever daddy Polgar was when he ran his experiment on his daughters. He was checking to see if it's possible to create actual genius through incredibly hard work. But any genius in their field would already tell you than yeah, genius is the result of extremely hard work :>
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Fair enough.
Still, at some point, the will has to come from within. Giving kids a push, yes, by all means, but if many years into it the only driving force is external pressure, there'll always be a lack of creativity and that "extra" factor. Take Ma long, Timo Boll, Xu Xin, Vladimir Samsonov... These guys would play for free, or at least for their own sense of enjoyment, achievement and glory. They look like naturals, and have instantly recognisable styles. I feel this could be the difference between Miu Hirano and Mima Ito, in recent times. "I have to win" only cuts the mustard up to a certain point.
The counter-argument would be that the overall level might fluctuate more depending on the player's own motivation and state of mind, if you take someone like Pitchford who can beat almost anyone on his day but can also have a bit of a fragile mind. As always, it is a matter of balance and having someone like Liu Guoliang ready to give you a shove and send you to the basement can be pretty handy, on slower days. The important point is that LGL's good intentions and caring are evident even when he is being tough, something that wasn't all that clear with Morizono's father (will leave him the benefit of the doubt..). And if he couldn't see your inner will, Liu wouldn't let you anywhere near him in the first place.
Pushing the chess analogy, take the last world champs. On one hand you have Caruana (not saying he doesn't like chess - I honestly can't picture his frame of mind all that well) with quite likely the highest level of preparation ever achieved, "drills" taken to the next level and blitzing out moves well into the middle-game against the strongest player there ever was, in absolute terms.
Carlsen on the other hand seemingly bored to death with what the classical time-control game is turning into (I know he was also annoyed with the format), doing his best to get off the beaten path at the first opportunity and to salvage a little spark in all this. Not to mention, shutting up naysayers by wilfully going into tie-breaks when he likely could grind out a win in classical, in the last game. At which point, he murdered Caruana in shorter time-controls and came out with panache. Which would you rather have?
Just to be clear: Carlsen is no Mikhail Tal in style and he can rely on his fair share of preparation too (there isn't a single sport or game where "innate talent" will do these days, as you said), but he's always been encouraged to take things into his own hands and follow his intuition.
I know his father has been by his side his entire life. But it has always been a case of "nurturing" rather than "forcing", Skandinavian style, and you couldn't take him off the chess board as a child, unless he didn't feel like playing and you'd probably be facing the opposite. Reminds me of Timo Boll, and his alleged aversion to formal training (now I am also thinking of the Finland vs Korea education excellence debate, but this post is probably long enough..). Carlsen has been described as "arrogant" quite a few times, but what I see is "confident", due to the above.
Does this make sense?
Still, at some point, the will has to come from within. Giving kids a push, yes, by all means, but if many years into it the only driving force is external pressure, there'll always be a lack of creativity and that "extra" factor. Take Ma long, Timo Boll, Xu Xin, Vladimir Samsonov... These guys would play for free, or at least for their own sense of enjoyment, achievement and glory. They look like naturals, and have instantly recognisable styles. I feel this could be the difference between Miu Hirano and Mima Ito, in recent times. "I have to win" only cuts the mustard up to a certain point.
The counter-argument would be that the overall level might fluctuate more depending on the player's own motivation and state of mind, if you take someone like Pitchford who can beat almost anyone on his day but can also have a bit of a fragile mind. As always, it is a matter of balance and having someone like Liu Guoliang ready to give you a shove and send you to the basement can be pretty handy, on slower days. The important point is that LGL's good intentions and caring are evident even when he is being tough, something that wasn't all that clear with Morizono's father (will leave him the benefit of the doubt..). And if he couldn't see your inner will, Liu wouldn't let you anywhere near him in the first place.
Pushing the chess analogy, take the last world champs. On one hand you have Caruana (not saying he doesn't like chess - I honestly can't picture his frame of mind all that well) with quite likely the highest level of preparation ever achieved, "drills" taken to the next level and blitzing out moves well into the middle-game against the strongest player there ever was, in absolute terms.
Carlsen on the other hand seemingly bored to death with what the classical time-control game is turning into (I know he was also annoyed with the format), doing his best to get off the beaten path at the first opportunity and to salvage a little spark in all this. Not to mention, shutting up naysayers by wilfully going into tie-breaks when he likely could grind out a win in classical, in the last game. At which point, he murdered Caruana in shorter time-controls and came out with panache. Which would you rather have?
Just to be clear: Carlsen is no Mikhail Tal in style and he can rely on his fair share of preparation too (there isn't a single sport or game where "innate talent" will do these days, as you said), but he's always been encouraged to take things into his own hands and follow his intuition.
I know his father has been by his side his entire life. But it has always been a case of "nurturing" rather than "forcing", Skandinavian style, and you couldn't take him off the chess board as a child, unless he didn't feel like playing and you'd probably be facing the opposite. Reminds me of Timo Boll, and his alleged aversion to formal training (now I am also thinking of the Finland vs Korea education excellence debate, but this post is probably long enough..). Carlsen has been described as "arrogant" quite a few times, but what I see is "confident", due to the above.
Does this make sense?
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