Darko Jorgic - best backhand ever?

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In fact, Boll and Ma Long could get lots of credit for their backhand play but no one would argue that they have the best backhands in the world because we usually focus on the spectacular not on how it fits one game.

I could not resist this: RidTheKid has argued Ma Long has the best BH. :)

hahahaha. Hopefully I got this in before RTK says it. :)
 
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When most people speak about best backhand, if we are honest, we are mostly about the spectacular backhand loop. Usually the best backhands nowadays in terms of overall backhand play are just the backhands of the best players and maybe today, there is no real benefit in having a backhand like Jorgic because the focus is on fast backhand play to introduce forehand or control the opponent. The backhands of Karaksevic or Kreanga that people ooh and aah at are just like Jorgic. Same with Dima or Calderano.

Obviously one could make an argument that the overall backhand play of someone like Harimoto is better. Or even there is a need for a footwork transition into an active forehand that makes such big backhands antiques in most situations. In fact, Boll and Ma Long could get lots of credit for their backhand play but no one would argue that they have the best backhands in the world because we usually focus on the spectacular not on how it fits one game.

But what I don't understand is why people who are listing Kreanga are denying Jorgic and calling him inconsistent. It is the same kind of thing, just more powerful. The kid is fun to watch and for me it is cool to see certain European traditions maintained even if they are antiquated.

Yes on all points, especially the last sentence! And good summary from Carl.
 
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I have, and I could still argue it being the best although Ma Long hasn't been in his best shape recently. ML's bh is just one of his many weapons, that's why he doesn't get much recognition for it.

I could not resist this: RidTheKid has argued Ma Long has the best BH. :)

hahahaha. Hopefully I got this in before RTK says it. :)
 
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I still think it's too inconsistent to even be considered top 5 in the world. Against Wang he missed many shots. Sure it looks spectacular when he rips those bh, but he also looks stupid when he runs over to the fh side to rip a bh and it misses. Against a top player like Boll with all his experience and cleverness Jorgic doesn't look so good.

His backhand winning percentage in that match was what made me give him respect, I thought it would cost him points but I suspect on the whole he made out like a bandit as Yang struggled to chop the ball when his backhand hit the table. We can contrast that to Gauzy's forehand in the same event.

Consistency is measured against points won not in a vacuum. I would take a one shot forehand with a 70% win rate vs. a consistent forehand with a 50% win rate. If you want consistency watch Gauzy play Yang in the same event. If you want effectiveness, Darko brought the goods.
 
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Yeah. At some point fandom is no longer rational. Just like romance.

My memory was, the stance was something like this: his consistency has become quite amazing. He can go BH to BH against anyone and will win more of those points than he will lose.

So, the argument had some foundation even if you don't agree with the premise. It still does depend on what you think a BH is for. So it goes back to how there can be many arguments for different versions of best BH.

I just don't think we need to get pulled into the clickbait trap of best. Best for what. Best for consistency? Then it is quite a good point actually.
 

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Pitchford from 15'+ back has the best bh.
 
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I've watched more of his matches now. So my opinion for what little it's worth.

Best BH whack in history. No doubt. He hits amazing winners with it. But very far from the best BH overall. I noticed a lot of limitations.

1. He doesn't loop all that much with it and when he does it is not much of a threat.

2. He makes a lot of short game errors with it (and in general his return of serve is a weakness, certainly his BH return of serve is crap compared to say FZD).

3. Except when he whacks those amazing winners he doesn't apply all that much pressure in rallies with his BH. He sort of hangs in there and kind of looks for an opportunity to unleash his cannon, which doesn't come in a lot of points.

I consider players with the best BHs to be players with the most versatile and consistent BHs. Some people I would put in that category are Jorgen Persson*, Kreanga, Kong Linghui, and especially ZJK. If you want to go back a lot futher, even Grubba. I think among current players if you consider the strengths vs weaknesses on the BH side, I would say that FZD, Ovtcharov, Harimoto, and without doubt other players I am forgetting would score better on that overall rating.

But that is in Feb 2020. Let's see where this guy is a few years from now. A lot of the issues I just mentioned were really easily seen in the video posted above in the match against Xu Xin. Watching people play defenders is not always the best way to judge. (Of course Xu Xin makes people look weaker, because he is Xu Xin).

Now if you are looking for an amazing video highlight BH winner hit to either side of the table and with insane pace on the ball, this guy is tops. That shot is scary. It is a great weapon. It is unique for sure. You just have to ignore all the other things that happen with his shots on that side.

* Persson had every conceivable BH shot of his day in his armory (except for chiquita). He was steady as a rock. None of it was super spectacular to watch (in contrast to Kreanga). All of it was very effective. That's why he actually became a world champion.
 
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To be in the discussion having the best of anything you have to measure it against world class opposition, like Xu Xin. Otherwise it gets stuck in the fanboy romance area ;)

I've watched more of his matches now. So my opinion for what little it's worth.

Best BH whack in history. No doubt. He hits amazing winners with it. But very far from the best BH overall. I noticed a lot of limitations.

1. He doesn't loop all that much with it and when he does it is not much of a threat.

2. He makes a lot of short game errors with it (and in general his return of serve is a weakness, certainly his BH return of serve is crap compared to say FZD).

3. Except when he whacks those amazing winners he doesn't apply all that much pressure in rallies with his BH. He sort of hangs in there and kind of looks for an opportunity to unleash his cannon, which doesn't come in a lot of points.

I consider players with the best BHs to be players with the most versatile and consistent BHs. Some people I would put in that category are Jorgen Persson*, Kreanga, Kong Linghui, and especially ZJK. If you want to go back a lot futher, even Grubba. I think among current players if you consider the strengths vs weaknesses on the BH side, I would say that FZD, Ovtcharov, Harimoto, and without doubt other players I am forgetting would score better on that overall rating.

But that is in Feb 2020. Let's see where this guy is a few years from now. A lot of the issues I just mentioned were really easily seen in the video posted above in the match against Xu Xin. Watching people play defenders is not always the best way to judge. (Of course Xu Xin makes people look weaker, because he is Xu Xin).

Now if you are looking for an amazing video highlight BH winner hit to either side of the table and with insane pace on the ball, this guy is tops. That shot is scary. It is a great weapon. It is unique for sure. You just have to ignore all the other things that happen with his shots on that side.

* Persson had every conceivable BH shot of his day in his armory (except for chiquita). He was steady as a rock. None of it was super spectacular to watch (in contrast to Kreanga). All of it was very effective. That's why he actually became a world champion.
 
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If you want consistency watch Gauzy play Yang in the same event. If you want effectiveness, Darko brought the goods.

Not to hammer on the same point over and over again, but Gauzy really did collapse in that last game. Up what was it, 6 or 7-2, and two match points. Claimed a wet ball, or something, looking agitated. Hardly consistent, anyway. But yes, I kept wishing all match long he would hit the ball head on more often, which only goes to reinforce your point with Jorgic doing just that from his backhand. Oh, Simon. :-(
 
And the other contenders are supposedly more consistent? Or you just remember them from highlights and not actual matches? The point is that Jorgic has a ridiculous backhand at least as ridiculous as any other contender for greatest backhand ever. These debates are for fun. But if Kreanga played Boll, his backhand would look just as inconsistent. Same with Karaksevic. But all someone has to show me is a player who trusts his backhand enough to run around his forehand to play it vs heavy chop. That is a different level of backhand confidence in TT history.

Not saying you are wrong but I think sometimes we find a way to remember only when people make shots that fit out thoughts and forget the times they don't. Karakasevic for most of his career was a worse player than Jorgic is already. He did have some great wins though.

Maybe his forehand is just not good enough to consistently attack against chops. Maybe, he cant repeat this level of consistency with any consistency
 
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Maybe his forehand is just not good enough to consistently attack against chops. Maybe, he cant repeat this level of consistency with any consistency
That is okay. Doing it for even one match is incredible enough for me. And if you watch the match, or many of his matches you can see that his forehand is consistent. That said, so was Gauzy's...
 
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About Ma Longs bh being the best: I'm never gonna claim something to be 100% correct since things change, but watch this little clip here and I believe you will see that Jorgic doesn't come close to having this versatile bh. And this is just ML, there are many other players you can find having better bh. It's not just about hitting the ball as hard as you can. But it is absolutely fundamental if one wants to be successful in TT to value (calculate/estimate) the moment, what to do/use in the specific moment of play. That's what Timo is so good at, that's not something that goes away with age. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WVAlTMVX9KU
 
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Have not read all comments so Maybe double post here. I feel like best is proably alot of different things depending on their style of play.

Jorgic and kreanga have more powerful bh, But zhang Jike and dima have also had good success with their bh that is faster more close to the table.

But it is really fun that see a player that is so backhand oriented. I like this. Him and example Falck show that you Do not need to play according to the norm and should Try to develop your game around your strengths.
 
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About Ma Longs bh being the best: I'm never gonna claim something to be 100% correct since things change, but watch this little clip here and I believe you will see that Jorgic doesn't come close to having this versatile bh. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WVAlTMVX9KU
I've just watched the video and, yes, Ma Long plays an extraordinary variety of backhand shots against the best available competition. (I loved how he despatched the great Ma Lin's serve.) Without a doubt, the youtube video shows an awesome player, amongst the very best of the very best.

However, it's a compilation video. Out of the millions of backhands Ma Long has played, including all those he's missed, the compiler has picked out only those that make Ma Long look good. What would happen if we only looked at the winners Jorgic played in the matches posted in this thread?

What is obvious, is that Jorgic has an insanely powerful weapon in his arsenal. We can save the arguments about "best" for when he cracks the top 10 - if he ever does.

And FWIW, in the match against Ma Te, counting only those strokes that either were a clean winner or a complete miss, his success/failure rate was 11 winners to 8 misses.
 
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I've just watched the video and, yes, Ma Long plays an extraordinary variety of backhand shots against the best available competition. (I loved how he despatched the great Ma Lin's serve.) Without a doubt, the youtube video shows an awesome player, amongst the very best of the very best.

However, it's a compilation video. Out of the millions of backhands Ma Long has played, including all those he's missed, the compiler has picked out only those that make Ma Long look good. What would happen if we only looked at the winners Jorgic played in the matches posted in this thread?

What is obvious, is that Jorgic has an insanely powerful weapon in his arsenal. We can save the arguments about "best" for when he cracks the top 10 - if he ever does.

And FWIW, in the match against Ma Te, counting only those strokes that either were a clean winner or a complete miss, his success/failure rate was 11 winners to 8 misses.

Yet people will list Karaksevic as one of the best backhands ever even though I doubt he ever cracked the top 30.
 
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ZJK for me was the best bh ever. Speaking with pros who played against him, the 'weight' on the balls from his bh was ridiculous - combination of spin/speed. Not to mention his insane stability and consistency, ability to play the shot even if he was one point down on a championship point - it was that consistent. Topped off with a superb tactical and strategic use of the bh to change the pace, direction and control his opponent - using just his bh. The predecessor of that use of the bh was Wang Hao - ZJK improved upon it and took it up another level.
 
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