Donic Blade/Rubber or a Different Brand?

[TripleB]

I thought I had finally narrowed my new blade purchase down to either the Donic Waldner Senso Carbon V1 or the Donic Epox Power Allround. But after hearing from a few posters that Donic doesn't make many sticky rubbers, I think I may need to head back and take a look at some of the other blades I was considering. Really prefer very sticky rubber. And I like to have the rubber come from the same company as my blade.

I currently play with a Nittaku KVL Defensive blade with Nittaku Spiral rubber on both sides.

Can anyone please tell me a little bit about the Donic brand and about either or both of these two blades?

I'd also appreciate any advice on which Donic rubber to purchase for the backhand side and which Donic rubber the forehand side of the blade. I really seem to like very tacky, high spin rubber on my blades. Since I use my backhand and forehand differently (see below), I feel like I'm probably going to have a different rubber for each side of the blade.

I would consider myself a backhand counterpuncher. I basically try and play very close to the table using my backhand (probably 80% of the time) to pick up balls as soon as they bounce and directing them quickly with topspin to various parts of my opponents side, either to force an error from him/her or to get him/her out of position in order to exploit the opening he/she left. I also try to use looping power off both sides when the opportunity arises (more comfortable doing this from the backhand side), moving back some from the table when needed - but this is probably the weakest part of my game (except for the struggle to return some types of spins serves to where I want the return to be). I do not do a lot of quick counterattacking off the forehand side like I do my backhand side...my forehand is more of a mixture of heavy topspin, some slicing, some blocking, and heavy looping.

I would like to keep the game I currently play with my backhand (maybe a hair more power), but add better (more powerful, heavier spin) looping skills off the forehand side. I know this is a mechanical issue for me, not specifically a blade/rubber issue, but I just feel like I have to swing so hard with my current paddle to get the power and spin I'm hoping for to be successful with that part of my game. But I'm worried if I go too powerful, I'll lose the success I have with my counterattacking backhand. That's why I figure two different Donic rubbers might be the way to go.

But, if Donic doesn't make any really stick rubber (the responses below mention that and many reviews I've read since mention the same thing), I believe I should be looking at another brand of paddle.

Looking to go add a bit more power to my game (ie: move to a more powerful blade than the KVL Defensive), I was looking at the following paddles: Stiga Defensive Pro, Tibhar Samsonov Pure Wood, Tibhar Fortino Performance, Nittaku Kasumi Basic, and Nittaku Septear. And prior to that I was open to about any combo under $200: the ones previously mentioned ad Tibhar Samsonov Alpha, Stiga Offensive Classic, Yasaka Ma Lin Soft Carbon, Stiga Infinity VPS V, Stiga Clipper CR WRB, Donic Original Senso Carbon.

On paper (I know, take that info with a grain of salt), the Nittaku Kasumi Basic, Tibhar Fortino Performance, Tibhar Samsonov Alpha, and Yasaka Ma Lin Soft Carbon appear to be the closest to the two Donic blades I mentioned (speed 84-88, very good control, similar stiffness, similar hardness, etc.). The big thing that I can't find for each is the size of the blade...smaller than average size blade is definitely not what I want.

Thank you for any and all help/advice!

TripleB

 

[Crillo]

Donic is a well-known brand in the world of table tennis, specializing in equipment such as rackets, rubbers, tables, and accessories. Founded in 1977 in Germany, Donic quickly became one of the leading brands in the table tennis industry due to its high-quality products and innovations. Here’s a brief history of the brand:

Early Days (1970s-1980s)​

Donic was established by Karlheinz Schreiner in the late 1970s. The company initially focused on producing professional-grade table tennis equipment that could meet the needs of both amateur players and professionals. Its first products, primarily blades and rubbers, quickly gained attention for their precision and durability.

By the 1980s, Donic had already built a reputation for producing world-class equipment. The brand became associated with numerous professional players and teams, helping to elevate its standing in the international table tennis scene.

Rise to Prominence (1990s)​

Throughout the 1990s, Donic expanded its product line to include a variety of table tennis accessories, from tables to shoes and clothing. The brand focused on research and development to create equipment that catered to the changing demands of modern table tennis, especially as the game grew faster and more competitive.

During this period, Donic sponsored top-level players, including Swedish stars like Jörgen Persson and Jan-Ove Waldner, both legends in the sport. Waldner, often referred to as the “Mozart of Table Tennis,” played with Donic equipment during his illustrious career, cementing the brand's place at the top of the sport.

Technological Innovation (2000s-Present)​

Donic has remained a key player in the table tennis industry due to its continued focus on innovation. The brand developed various technologies for its rubbers and blades to adapt to changes in table tennis rules and playing styles, such as the switch from celluloid to plastic balls. It has also worked to improve the spin and speed characteristics of its rubbers and blades, aligning with modern player preferences.

The brand’s partnership with top-level athletes and national teams has allowed it to stay relevant and respected within the table tennis community. Donic products are used at both amateur and professional levels, including in international competitions.

Global Reach​

Today, Donic is one of the leading brands in the table tennis world, with a presence in over 80 countries. It continues to sponsor major tournaments, teams, and individual players. Its commitment to quality and performance has made Donic a trusted name among table tennis enthusiasts, from casual players to Olympic champions.

Through its continuous focus on innovation, quality craftsmanship, and sponsorship of top-level athletes, Donic remains a major force in the sport.

 

[Lazer]

Donic blades are great, my current favorite is Appelgren WC 89. It has a soft outer layer of spruce and a carbon layer underneath. I don’t know anything about the two blades you mention. The WC 89 series is made by Soulspin (German blade maker). They also make the blade I am currently playing, Nittaku S-CZ.

Donic doesn’t market a real sticky rubber I know of. The closest would be Bluegrip.
Their homepage have an excellent description of both blades and rubbers…

DONIC

www.donic.com

Cheers
L-zr

 

[JJ Ng]

I've finally narrowed my new blade purchase down to either the Donic Waldner Senso Carbon V1 or the Donic Epox Power Allround.

I know very little about the Donic brand or their offerings. I'm not sure if they weren't prevalent 10+ years ago when I last played consistently, or I just didn't notice them, because I went with a Nittaku KVL Defensive blade with Nittaku Spiral rubber on both sides.

Can anyone please tell me a little bit about the Donic brand and about either or both of these two blades?

I'd also appreciate any advice on which Donic rubber to purchase for the backhand side and which Donic rubber the forehand side of the blade. I really seem to like very tacky, high spin rubber on my blades. Since I use my backhand and forehand differently (see below), I feel like I'm probably going to have a different rubber for each side of the blade.

I would consider myself a backhand counterpuncher. I basically try and play very close to the table using my backhand (probably 80% of the time) to pick up balls as soon as they bounce and directing them quickly with topspin to various parts of my opponents side, either to force an error from him/her or to get him/her out of position in order to exploit the opening he/she left. I also try to use looping power off both sides when the opportunity arises (more comfortable doing this from the backhand side), moving back some from the table when needed - but this is probably the weakest part of my game (except for the struggle to return some types of spins serves to where I want the return to be). I do not do a lot of quick counterattacking off the forehand side like I do my backhand side...my forehand is more of a mixture of heavy topspin, some slicing, some blocking, and heavy looping.

I would like to keep the game I currently play with my backhand (maybe a hair more power), but add better (more powerful, heavier spin) looping skills off the forehand side. I know this is a mechanical issue for me, not specifically a blade/rubber issue, but I just feel like I have to swing so hard with my current paddle to get the power and spin I'm hoping for to be successful with that part of my game. But I'm worried if I go too powerful, I'll lose the success I have with my counterattacking backhand. That's why I figure two different Donic rubbers might be the way to go.

I would great appreciate any help you can provide with the blade and a rubber choice for my backhand as well as my forehand!

TripleB

Are you using Nittaku KVL Defensive blade with Nittaku Spiral rubber on both sides currently? What do you like about this set-up? What do you not like about this set-up.

I have used Donic Waldner Senso Carbon (not sure what version is it because I only used it briefly) and 7-ply Donic Persson PowerPlay. I don't recall much from testing Donic Waldner Senso Carbo. I just remember it was not that fast (maybe it is inner carbon configuration?) and the handle is hallow which is not something I am used to. As for Donic Persson PowerPlay, I love that blade. Fast but yet controllable. And since it is all wood, you still get the feel and control. And it does not vibrate much (I hate my blade vibrating). Some people however love their blades to vibrate.

As for rubbers, Donic rubbers are good and solid. I agree with the other poster that tacky, hybrid rubber is not Donic's strongest suite or not their main marketing strategy.

 

[TripleB]

Are you using Nittaku KVL Defensive blade with Nittaku Spiral rubber on both sides currently? What do you like about this set-up? What do you not like about this set-up.

As for Donic Persson PowerPlay, I love that blade. Fast but yet controllable. And since it is all wood, you still get the feel and control. And it does not vibrate much (I hate my blade vibrating). Some people however love their blades to vibrate.

As for rubbers, Donic rubbers are good and solid. I agree with the other poster that tacky, hybrid rubber is not Donic's strongest suite or not their main marketing strategy.

Yes, Spiral rubber on both sides. I love the control I get on my counterattacking backhand - while it could use a bit more speed, the control is absolutely remarkable for where I am in my "comeback" from taking many years off. On the forehand side is really where I feel the lack of power in the blade, rubber, or combination of the two. While it's pretty accurate, the ability to hit a crushing forehand just isn't there with the KVL/Spiral.

Thanks for the information on the Donic rubber...maybe I need to look at another manufacturer for the rubber.

Thanks to everyone for the help so far!

*I went back and added this to my original post, the other paddles I've been considering are: Stiga Defensive Pro, Tibhar Samsonov Pure Wood, Tibhar Fortino Performance, Nittaku Kasumi Basic, and Nittaku Septear. Heck, prior to narrowing it down I was looking at anything 90 power rating and below (didn't want to go too drastic with my change in paddle from a defensive blade)...all of these mentioned here and: Tibhar Samsonov Alpha, Stiga Offensive Classic, Stiga Infinity VPS V, Stiga Clipper CR WRB, Donic Original Senso Carbon, and Yasaka Ma Lin Soft Carbon.

TripleB

 

[JJ Ng]

Yes, Spiral rubber on both sides. I love the control I get on my counterattacking backhand - while it could use a bit more speed, the control is absolutely remarkable for where I am in my "comeback" from taking many years off. On the forehand side is really where I feel the lack of power in the blade, rubber, or combination of the two. While it's pretty accurate, the ability to hit a crushing forehand just isn't there with the KVL/Spiral.

Thanks for the information on the Donic rubber...maybe I need to look at another manufacturer for the rubber.

Thanks to everyone for the help so far!

*I went back and added this to my original post, the other paddles I've been considering are: Stiga Defensive Pro, Tibhar Samsonov Pure Wood, Tibhar Fortino Performance, Nittaku Kasumi Basic, and Nittaku Septear. Heck, prior to narrowing it down I was looking at anything 90 power rating and below (didn't want to go too drastic with my change in paddle from a defensive blade)...all of these mentioned here and: Tibhar Samsonov Alpha, Stiga Offensive Classic, Stiga Infinity VPS V, Stiga Clipper CR WRB, Donic Original Senso Carbon, and Yasaka Ma Lin Soft Carbon.

TripleB

Quick reply: I love love Tibhar Stratus Power Wood. I have like 5 copies of them. The headsize is a big bigger than usual. Definitely OFF- in terms of speed. Fast enough but with control.

Tibhar Fortino Performance, I have one blade. It was my main blade for 3 months before. It is a very good inner carbon blade. If you want to try carbon for the first time, you cannot go wrong with Tibhar Fortino Performance.

As for backhand rubber, I would recommend Donic Donic Acuda series. There are three hardness, S3 the softest, S2 in the middle and S1 is the hardest. I am currently playing with S2. So you can go up and down in that series if you like it and just progress to harder sponge when you are ready.

 

[darucla]

https://www.tabletennisdaily.com/fo...-esn-suddenly-refused-to-make-for-them.32883/ This thread has some details about the links between Donic and ESN

 

[TripleB]

Quick reply: I love love Tibhar Stratus Power Wood. I have like 5 copies of them. The headsize is a big bigger than usual. Definitely OFF- in terms of speed. Fast enough but with control.

Tibhar Fortino Performance, I have one blade. It was my main blade for 3 months before. It is a very good inner carbon blade. If you want to try carbon for the first time, you cannot go wrong with Tibhar Fortino Performance.

As for backhand rubber, I would recommend Donic Donic Acuda series. There are three hardness, S3 the softest, S2 in the middle and S1 is the hardest. I am currently playing with S2. So you can go up and down in that series if you like it and just progress to harder sponge when you are ready.

Thanks for the information about the Tibhar paddles! How is the control with the Fortino Performance? On paper it seems like a big step up from my Nittaku KVL Defensive blade, but I'm looking for more power while keeping the control I love of my KVLD.

Thanks for the recommendation of rubbers from Donic!

I emailed Tihbar for rubber recommendations for the Fortino a few days ago and they advised me to go with the Hybrid K3 FX on my backhand and the Hybrid MK or MK Pro on my forehand. Do you know anything about either of these?

Again, truly appreciate your help!

TripleB

 

[JJ Ng]

Thanks for the information about the Tibhar paddles! How is the control with the Fortino Performance? On paper it seems like a big step up from my Nittaku KVL Defensive blade, but I'm looking for more power while keeping the control I love of my KVLD.

Thanks for the recommendation of rubbers from Donic!

I emailed Tihbar for rubber recommendations for the Fortino a few days ago and they advised me to go with the Hybrid K3 FX on my backhand and the Hybrid MK or MK Pro on my forehand. Do you know anything about either of these?

Again, truly appreciate your help!

TripleB

I like Fortino Performance but I am just not sure how you play. I like the feel of it.

If you are coming from a defensive blade, I would recommend starting with Tibhar Stratus Power Wood first and then progress to Fortino Performance.

As for Tibhar rubbers, it is hard to say. K3 is wildly popular. You can see many threads on that. K3 is like Dignics 09c but slightly harder. The problem with K3 is that its durability is not as good so I tend to push people toward Dignics 09c if they want a hybrid.

K3 soft is a new version. Nobody knows much about it. I guess K3 is too hard for some people so they came up with K3 fx (soft) version.

I have not played with MK hybrid but that topic is also discussed numerous times on the forum. What I remember is people saying it is a very good rubber but "hybrid" is totally misleading. It is very grippy but no tackiness on it.

If you are coming from a defensive blade with defensive rubbers, you should not upgrade too much because it will take you time to get used to the new set up.

This is what TT11 says about Nittaku Spiral: DISCONTINUED, Sticky high friction rubber for the defensive players. This is ideal sticky rubber for the defensive strategy. Perfect combination of strong back spin and attacking potential. Made in Japan.

So ideally I think you should get Tibhar Stratus Power Wood and slap two sheets of Nittaku Spiral on it. I always advice people to change one variable at a time to make trying new equipment fun and not end up wasting money.

However, if Nittaku Spiral is out of stock, I would recommend backhand Xiom Vega Intro 1.8mm or 2.0mm there. Xiom Vega Intro, like its name, is a slightly tensor rubber. So it is not way too bouncy. It will be a nice rubber for you to try to see if you really like the ESN tensor technology. And for forehand, if you want something tacky, I would just go for a Chinese rubber. I am not a big proponent of "hybrid" because most of them are barely tacky. If Nittaku Spiral is a very tacky rubber, then forehand I would suggest either DHS H3 black regular commercial orange sponge, not boosted, at 2.15mm sponge (2.0mm sponge is out of stock at TT11), or DHS G888 at 2.1mm sponge (2.0mm sponge is out of stock at TT11) or Yinhe Mercury II max sponge.

I have played with all three of those rubbers before. DHS H3 is basically hybrid now. It is tacky but not too tacky. G888 is a bit slower than H3 but it is very very tacky; one of the most tacky rubbers I have tried. However I tried G888 a few years ago so I hope they still make it very very tacky. Finally Yinhe Mercury II is also very very tacky. I just tried it last year. The only reason I don't use it that much is, Mercury II is too slow for my forehand. However, if you are a defensive player and you want to spin the ball, I think Mercury II is totally acceptable.

In terms of price, DHS H3 and G888 is about the same price but Mercury II is only $13 and change on TT11.

that's all I can add!

 

[mightymouse]

Replying to your original questions:

1. Donic Waldner Senso Carbon V1 (Donic WSC V1)

This blade is actually a Donic Allplay with added soft carbon near the core. So speed wise, it is actually an ALL+ / OFF- blade (depending on the weight). Although it contains carbon but it is very controllable and you can only feel the carbon when you swing hard. Also, for a carbon blade, it is rather flexible as well, so it behaves more like allwood blade. I suggest you try it if you don't want anything too fast.

Even Donic Waldner Dicon is faster than this blade.

One more thing, you can get 2 versions of this blade: Donic Waldner Senso Carbon V1 (the regular shape) and Donic Waldner Senso Carbon v1 JO Shape (the longer, egg shaped head). The latter is the special version, which was used by the great JO Waldner himself.

Which one to get then? Just get the ordinary one. The special version is good but you have to get it from certain supplier such as Tabletennis11 (for example). Besides, the egg shaped head is unique, thus you can't use rubbers from other blades to fit this blade.

So the original shape then? Yes, but please be aware that the head size of regular WSC is rather small. It is not the standard 157 x 150 mm dimension, but a bit smaller. I guess it is around 156 x 150 mm. How do I know? I tried to transfer my rubbers from a WSC to Donic Waldner senso V1 (the yellow handle, non-carbon blade) and the rubbers are too small for the Waldner senso V1.

2. Donic Epox Power Allround

Now, I have no experience with this blade. When I was thinking of buying this blade, I had small talk with the store owner, and he suggested me to get Donic Persson Power Allround instead. It is a classic. And I agree. This Donic Persson Power Allround has the same composition with Stiga Allround Evolution and Tibhar Premium Contact. Thickness is around 5.8 - 5.9 mm, so it is not too stiff, yet not too flexible.

So I can't answer your about Epox Power Allround, but suggest that you consider Persson Power Allround.

3. Other blades you consider

Tibhar Samsonov Alpha is a good blade as well, along with Nittaku Kasumi Basic.

Do not get Donic Original Senso Carbon V1 (previously Ovtcharov Original Senso Carbon). It is thicker than original WSC with core splitted into 2. So instead of 5 + 2 composition (like WSC), it is 6 + 2 composition. It is stiffer and faster as well. Go with WSC V1 (option #1 above), it is plenty fast.

You also consider Ma Lin Soft Carbon, right? It is a good blade as well. But FYI, there is another offering from Yasaka: Yasaka Ma Lin Carbon. Yasaka Ma Lin Carbon is actually Donic Waldner Senso Carbon V1 (WSC) without the void in the handle and it has regular dimension of 157 x 150 mm. So if you don't like Donic WSC (because of the void in the handle, thus can make the whole set up head heavy), you can try Ma Lin Carbon.

Back to Ma Lin Soft Carbon. It is a little more flexible blade, compared to Ma Lin Carbon.

What is the difference between the two?

Ma Lin Carbon: limba - anegre - soft carbon - ayous - soft carbon - anegre - limba
Ma Lin Soft Carbon: anegre - limba - soft carbon - ayous - soft carbon - limba - anegre

So Ma Lin Soft Carbon is actually Yasaka Sweden Extra with additional soft carbon near the core. So it is similar concept as WSC (Donic Allplay with additional soft carbon near the core).

But again, WSC = Ma Lin Carbon without the void in the handle and with the regular head size. It is a rather stiffer WSC (given the same weight).

I hope these help you to consider.....

 

[TripleB]

Replying to your original questions:

1. Donic Waldner Senso Carbon V1 (Donic WSC V1)

This blade is actually a Donic Allplay with added soft carbon near the core. So speed wise, it is actually an ALL+ / OFF- blade (depending on the weight). Although it contains carbon but it is very controllable and you can only feel the carbon when you swing hard. Also, for a carbon blade, it is rather flexible as well, so it behaves more like allwood blade. I suggest you try it if you don't want anything too fast.

3. Other blades you consider

Tibhar Samsonov Alpha is a good blade as well, along with Nittaku Kasumi Basic.

You also consider Ma Lin Soft Carbon, right? It is a good blade as well. But FYI, there is another offering from Yasaka: Yasaka Ma Lin Carbon.

Back to Ma Lin Soft Carbon. It is a little more flexible blade, compared to Ma Lin Carbon.

Thank you very much for taking a look at all of these blades and offering your opinions/thoughts. They are a tremendous help!

The void in the handle of the Donic, making it seem head heavy, doesn't seem like something I would prefer. As in other paddle/racquet sports, I tend to find heavier but headlight my preferred preference.

I looked at the Ma Lin Carbon but I think it has a power rating of 95 or so. Coming from a defensive blade I was worried that the huge jump in power (all at one time) might be something I couldn't really handle. I think when I went through my last group of possible paddles I set 90 as the top of my power limit range, with most blades falling in that 84-88 power range.

The DWSC V1 was really right in that sweetspot as far as specs (average stiffness, medium hardness, 86 power, great control, OFF-, etc.), but it did have a couple other blade right around it that seem very similar on paper: Tibhar Samsonov Alpha, Tibhar Fortino Performance (although listed stiffer than the rest), Yasaka Ma Lin Soft Carbon, Nittaku Kasumi Basic (although a little more flex than others).

As far as the head size, is there a website that states this information? I went with my KVL Defensive blade over a Tibhar blade I have because the Tibhar blade felt/looked way too small.

Several people have mentioned the Ma Lin Soft Carbon or the Fortino Performance as being a great introduction to the feeling of Carbon in a blade, but how does the feel of Carbon differ from an all wood blade or from my KVL Defensive which I believe is 5 wood layers and 2 Kevlar layers?

Again, I can't say thank you enough for all the help and advice!

TripleB

 

[Gozo Aruna]

Best product video ever. Enjoy!