Drills VS In Game

This user has no status.
This user has no status.
Member
May 2024
150
144
454
Hey folks,

I'm finding that when I do drills (ie 2BH, 2FH etc) I do pretty decent. However when I play a match my footwork is worse then horrible. I was wondering how y'all work on "real life" footwork?

One thing I am noticing is that I'm not watching the paddle & ball and have to remind myself of that all the time, so when I do that things do improve a bit but I'm either not doing it attentively enough or frequently enough (i know I do forget to watch the ball very frequently). It's just been a bit frustrating to perform well in drills and not in real matches, so would love to hear some tips!
 
This user has no status.
This user has no status.
🏆 Top 1% Commenter
Well-Known Member
Nov 2022
1,876
2,797
7,091
Doing drills will get you good at drills.

Getting better at simple drills will get you able tod do drills that are one step closer to actual gameplay.

Eventually the drills you do will be stuff like serve and third ball attack which is so close to actual gameplay that it'll finally boost your match play.

Until then, don't expect your drill FH or BH quality to show up in a match and enjoy the few random times it does happen.
 
This user has no status.
This user has no status.
Member
May 2024
150
144
454
Doing drills will get you good at drills.

Getting better at simple drills will get you able tod do drills that are one step closer to actual gameplay.

Eventually the drills you do will be stuff like serve and third ball attack which is so close to actual gameplay that it'll finally boost your match play.

Until then, don't expect your drill FH or BH quality to show up in a match and enjoy the few random times it does happen.
So the flow is get really good at drills that I'm doing now, then do more realistic drills, then it shows up in game? :)
 
  • Like
Reactions: Takkyu_wa_inochi
This user has no status.
This user has no status.
🏆 Top 1% Commenter
Well-Known Member
Jan 2022
1,490
1,359
4,876
Read 6 reviews
Same issue my side - big time. I seem to lose the ability to think clearly about anything that is not automatic when I play matches. It is very frustrating and I am trying to build it more into my non match practice - better watching of the opponents bat, better recovery speed, better dancing around on my feet etc.
 
This user has no status.
This user has no status.
🏆 Top 1% Commenter
Well-Known Member
Oct 2014
15,111
21,331
54,817
Read 17 reviews
So the flow is get really good at drills that I'm doing now, then do more realistic drills, then it shows up in game? :)
Getting good at drills doesn't translate to matches unless things are done in the drills that simulate what is giving you problems winning points in matches. If you are returning serves like crap and getting your returns killed, having great footwork isn't going to help with that. It is the reason why I tell most players who are at a level like yours that doing lots of general footwork drills is good exercise, but is not going to help you win matches in the short term. It's when you get closer to the level where I play that being able to move to certain balls quickly and in balance becomes huge to being able to get quality while being pressured by the speed of the game. What's more important for you is to be able to produce a quality third ball or quality return within the structure of the points you face in matches. Therefore the biggest drills for improvement of results tend to be serve and third ball and serve return and fourth ball at the lower levels. And these need to mimic the quality of what the opponent is facing in matches.
 
This user has no status.
This user has no status.
Member
May 2024
150
144
454
Getting good at drills doesn't translate to matches unless things are done in the drills that simulate what is giving you problems winning points in matches. If you are returning serves like crap and getting your returns killed, having great footwork isn't going to help with that. It is the reason why I tell most players who are at a level like yours that doing lots of general footwork drills is good exercise, but is not going to help you win matches in the short term. It's when you get closer to the level where I play that being able to move to certain balls quickly and in balance becomes huge to being able to get quality while being pressured by the speed of the game. What's more important for you is to be able to produce a quality third ball or quality return within the structure of the points you face in matches. Therefore the biggest drills for improvement of results tend to be serve and third ball and serve return and fourth ball at the lower levels. And these need to mimic the quality of what the opponent is facing in matches.
Yeah that makes total sense. Do drills that mimic in game of my particular level as opposed to the higher level drills.
 
This user has no status.
This user has no status.
🏆 Top 1% Commenter
Well-Known Member
Jan 2021
3,356
2,289
6,748
Read 1 reviews
Hey folks,

I'm finding that when I do drills (ie 2BH, 2FH etc) I do pretty decent. However when I play a match my footwork is worse then horrible. I was wondering how y'all work on "real life" footwork?

One thing I am noticing is that I'm not watching the paddle & ball and have to remind myself of that all the time, so when I do that things do improve a bit but I'm either not doing it attentively enough or frequently enough (i know I do forget to watch the ball very frequently). It's just been a bit frustrating to perform well in drills and not in real matches, so would love to hear some tips!
Do more unpredictable drills. The simplest being i.e 2 balls to BH then 1 or 2 balls to FH. And think about your return to neutral position on EVERY ball. That’s a good place to start.

Cheers
L-zr
 
This user has no status.
This user has no status.
🏆 Top 1% Commenter
Well-Known Member
Oct 2014
15,111
21,331
54,817
Read 17 reviews
I'm finding that when I do drills (ie 2BH, 2FH etc) I do pretty decent. However when I play a match my footwork is worse then horrible. I was wondering how y'all work on "real life" footwork?
Wrighty made a similar complaint about his game and progress a while back and as a fellow adult learner, I will tell you the same thing I told him. A lot of footwork is tied to anticipation, and the way you reduce anticipation demands is by 1) understanding the angle of play and 2) hitting quality balls, the second being more important for your level than the first. so I will focus on it for now.

If you play a slow sitting ball to the opponent, the opponent usually has many options to prepare for and place the ball. However, if you play a decently low ball with good spin, the demands on your opponent make it more likely that they will simply give you back the ball where you are waiting for it as redirecting balls which have good quality has timing demands in TT. So your focus should be on trying to play decently consistent topspins and pushes usually crosscourt into the corners vs most opponents so that their default is to simply send the ball back where it came from or into a part of the table where you are waiting. This is often by itself enough to make the opponent far more predictable unless they are so much better than you that it doesn't matter.

Now if you are complaining about how well you athletically move in matches, that is a related but different story. The reality is that most movement is fueled by anticipation, so it is not about how much you move, but whether and how soon you can read what the opponent is going to do and where the ball is going, and of course, the part of being ready to move and get to the ball is critical, but that is unlikely to make up for an inability to predict where the ball is going unless the opponent is significantly weaker and you are significantly athletic.

So the first step is to play quality balls so you can have a reasonable idea of what the opponent can and can't do and with practice, this will improve your anticipation as you look at things like bat angle, understand angle of play of the opponent so you know what you have to be ready to do when he hits the ball etc. Because if you don't limit your opponent's options with something good, then your anticipation demands are too high and the ball will be past or on you before you realize it.

I am not the best model, but I never did formal footwork drills until I was probably almost/over USATT 2000 with both good and bad side effects for my play. What my coach mostly worked with me on back then was being able to handle the game situations that came about in my game as I faced limits on how to get better, usually around serve and serve return and some technical stroke work, but all in the context of specific point patterns and rarely as a general technical tutorial. I often didn't look great on camera, but people were often puzzled by how someone with such a bad game could put the ball on the table repeatedly. You have to find the right balance between seeing table tennis as a sport and seeing it as a skill.
 
This user has no status.
This user has no status.
🏆 Top 1% Commenter
Well-Known Member
May 2011
1,989
2,326
5,525
Same issue my side - big time. I seem to lose the ability to think clearly about anything that is not automatic when I play matches. It is very frustrating and I am trying to build it more into my non match practice - better watching of the opponents bat, better recovery speed, better dancing around on my feet etc.
Everything in a match except for tactics SHOULD be automatic. You cannot be thinking about footwork, recovery, form, how to read spin, how to anticipate, etc. in a match. The only thing you should be thinking about beyond the service/receive stage is things like "I should use more spin/speed" or "I should test his BH more".

As for how important footwork is, it depends on how your BH/FH training is. Are you training to have a form like the pros? Power coming from the legs, body rotation, side-to-side weight transfer, etc.? Or are you training to just reach for the ball and get it back with good contact and spin? If it's the former, then without footwork nothing will translate into games. If it's the latter, then you don't need to worry too much about footwork until you reach a ceiling which will be lower of course but still will take you a LOOOONG time to reach as an amateur and will be at a level far above most amateurs.
 
This user has no status.
This user has no status.
🏆 Top 1% Commenter
Well-Known Member
Oct 2010
2,574
2,401
9,142
The problem with a lot of these is that, the point starts with serve and receive, not a nice medium pace topspin ball. And that is a lot more complex than drills.

If you want to do better at matches firstly you need to know how exactly to loop every different type of spin (there are 7 types in total), and your success percentages have to be high (at least 60-70% min). And also you need to know very clearly what you are serving and when the opponent gives you a receive, what spin is on the ball and select the correct method to loop the ball. For eg if I serve hook with sideunderspin to their BH, i would expect the guy to push with BH and I will receive a clockwise sideunderspin which I can loop accordingly (I force this receive basically). If you know the precise spin, you can loop it easier by going with the spin.

But once you get past serve/receive, the point will become a topspin rally (against most inverted players), so that is when your drills will prove to be very, very useful.
 
This user has no status.
This user has no status.
Member
Sep 2024
268
278
618
Isn't true for everyone that drill is easier than real match playing?

Two main reasons here: drill is well anticipated shots you act upon; drill is stress free

In the real game, most shots towards you are either random or more likely with ill intention to make you feel uncomfortable. Also in the real game, your are performing under the pressure to do whatever to win the point.

So, in drills you act on certain pattern with stress free mental state; in games, you react to uncertain shots under stress and pressure to win(or not lose, which is worse).

The purpose of drills is to solidify your right shots mechanic and footwork so it become automatic in the game. Even so, real game is always more difficult than drills.

Here is a simple fact. In pro matches, you can see two pros effortlessly do forehand or backhand drives/loops/blocks for a long exchange. Well, when the real game starts, you rarely see this type of long rallies.
 
This user has no status.
This user has no status.
Member
May 2024
150
144
454
All great inputs, thank you all!
The problem with a lot of these is that, the point starts with serve and receive, not a nice medium pace topspin ball. And that is a lot more complex than drills.

If you want to do better at matches firstly you need to know how exactly to loop every different type of spin (there are 7 types in total), and your success percentages have to be high (at least 60-70% min). And also you need to know very clearly what you are serving and when the opponent gives you a receive, what spin is on the ball and select the correct method to loop the ball. For eg if I serve hook with sideunderspin to their BH, i would expect the guy to push with BH and I will receive a clockwise sideunderspin which I can loop accordingly (I force this receive basically). If you know the precise spin, you can loop it easier by going with the spin.

But once you get past serve/receive, the point will become a topspin rally (against most inverted players), so that is when your drills will prove to be very, very useful.
This one specifically hit hard. It made me think "where do I lose 80% of points?" and once I really thought hard it comes down to two scenarios:
1. I serve underspin (my favorite type of serve, usually with sidespin on the BH) and I get back underspin and I try to loop and I fail.
2. Same thing but I already missed a few loops and now I push back and this goes on for a bit until I try to open up and put it in the net.
3. I don't recieve the serve well.

In odd instances when #1, #2 and #3 don't happen I either win the point or its a close one (of course sometimes I just mess up even when its not those 3 but more rarely). I think next time I get in front of the table I'm going to practice a lot of 3rd ball attacks (where I get back ball with underspin) to my FH/BH/random and also focus on recieving serves more effectively. One thing I have to keep reminding myself is to watch the paddle and the ball, it tells me where the ball is going and the rotation so I don't have to guess (problem is remembering that and getting better at it when the ball is fast).
 
This user has no status.
This user has no status.
Active Member
Jul 2017
837
441
1,389
So the flow is get really good at drills that I'm doing now, then do more realistic drills, then it shows up in game? :)
In the drill you have a little more time because you know where the ball will go (usually). In a game you have to read the opponents Ball first before you can make your move. That means you have less time and you can get rushed. For example in a drill you might start your move to the other side of the table just after you have hit the ball and in a game you have to wait until the opponent has hit the ball and the ball has traveled a couple inches so you can read the direction and arc. That is time you lose to make your move.

Taking time away by either hitting harder, playing closer to the table or give you a tough to read Ball where you have to wait before you can move are Strategies that opponents use in games.

The faster you are at reading the opponent Ball the quicker you can start your move.

To practice that you can have your drill partner hit balls random to locations you don't expect and also hit them a little harder and spinnier to make it tougher.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Novarac23
This user has no status.
This user has no status.
🏆 Top 1% Commenter
Well-Known Member
Sep 2013
10,592
10,257
26,494
Read 3 reviews
Hey folks,

I'm finding that when I do drills (ie 2BH, 2FH etc) I do pretty decent. However when I play a match my footwork is worse then horrible. I was wondering how y'all work on "real life" footwork?

One thing I am noticing is that I'm not watching the paddle & ball and have to remind myself of that all the time, so when I do that things do improve a bit but I'm either not doing it attentively enough or frequently enough (i know I do forget to watch the ball very frequently). It's just been a bit frustrating to perform well in drills and not in real matches, so would love to hear some tips!
you should do one middle, one side (any of the side), this drill will help real life footwork
 
This user has no status.
This user has no status.
Member
May 2024
150
144
454
Ok so folks a little update on this, I played local league last night and a highlight for me was that after serve if I do necessary footwork to get myself back a neutral position things usually flow a lot better (same for receiving the serve, get back to neutral position after recieving). So will practice that + 3rd ball attack + 5th ball attack (in case of me recieving) :)
 
  • Like
Reactions: latej and Lazer
This user has no status.
This user has no status.
🏆 Top 1% Commenter
Well-Known Member
Nov 2020
1,318
1,091
5,346
Ok so folks a little update on this, I played local league last night and a highlight for me was that after serve if I do necessary footwork to get myself back a neutral position things usually flow a lot better (same for receiving the serve, get back to neutral position after recieving). So will practice that + 3rd ball attack + 5th ball attack (in case of me recieving) :)

Related to this is a mistake I sometimes do - when I serve, I watch "how the serve went", instead of watching what the opponent prepares to do... I guess this watching of the serve mistake is overtaken from the serve practice, but in the match it is not good, as soon as I hit the ball, I must watch the opponent, it saves a lot of time...
 
This user has no status.
This user has no status.
Member
May 2024
150
144
454
Y
Related to this is a mistake I sometimes do - when I serve, I watch "how the serve went", instead of watching what the opponent prepares to do... I guess this watching of the serve mistake is overtaken from the serve practice, but in the match it is not good, as soon as I hit the ball, I must watch the opponent, it saves a lot of time...
Yeah that is a subtle but an important difference. I'd also say it's super important to get back in the neutral position, so you can actually loop/push from both FH / BH. Otherwise, I find myself still in the "end of serve" position glued to the table and the point goes into the net.
 
This user has no status.
This user has no status.
🏆 Top 1% Commenter
Well-Known Member
Nov 2020
1,318
1,091
5,346
Yeah that is a subtle but an important difference. I'd also say it's super important to get back in the neutral position, so you can actually loop/push from both FH / BH. Otherwise, I find myself still in the "end of serve" position glued to the table and the point goes into the net.

Yes, I agree. In my case getting to neutral (which involves small step back with both feet) was kind of automatic. But not watching the serve after the 1st bounce (or perhaps only incidentally), and instead focusing on the opponent gives me some extra precious time. Cheers.
 
says Spin and more spin.
says Spin and more spin.
🏆 Top 1% Commenter
Well-Known Member
Moderator
Dec 2010
16,559
18,306
56,468
Read 11 reviews
I have posted this video countless times when it comes to questions about how to translate training to actual skill in game scenarios:


Watch the video several times and see if you can sort out some ways to translate the information about training the random element to training in Table Tennis. There are lots of ways to start incrementally moving training towards more random.

It is clear that in a drill where you know exactly where the next ball is going to go, you don't have to figure out where the next ball is going to go before moving there. So, reading the play is not part of those drills.

TT is so complex that you do still need to work on things like that, but not as much as people think you need to work on them. Getting good form in strokes when you know where the ball is going and can move there because you know before the ball is hit where the next ball will go, that is a very basic starting point. And to get the coordination of how the upper body and lower body coordinate to make those kinds of movements and maintain good form in your strokes is worthwhile. You can also work on this with shadow stroke/footwork drills without needing table time. Shadow stroke/footwork drills will help with the coordination of upper and lower body for moving to a spot, setting and taking a good stroke.

But when you are playing a match, your opponent is not trying to hit the ball to you where you know it will go. They are not feeding the ball to you. They are trying to hit the ball to where it will pressure you and make it awkward for you to make a return you want.

There are so many levels on which the random element needs to be worked on in table tennis. But starting with approaching it from a few directions is not a bad start.

A few places to start with actual game simulation drills:

Drill One:
1) Player One Serves backspin short:
2) Player Two pushes long to FH (not an entirely predictable location but somewhere in the FH box; if the ball is near the center in the BH box, that is good too.)
3) Player One Loops with FH (if player one fails to even attempt to loop with FH, you could look at that as failure. Nothing else is failure though. Trying to loop and not getting the ball on the table is better than trying to push the long 3rd ball).
4) OPEN RALLY, BOTH PLAYERS TRY TO WIN THE POINT.

Drill Two:
1) Player One Serves backspin short:
2) Player Two pushes long to BH (not an entirely predictable location but somewhere in the BH box)
3) Player One Loops with BH (if player one fails to even attempt to loop with BH, you could look at that as failure; aside from that, everything is a successful attempt).
4) OPEN RALLY, BOTH PLAYERS TRY TO WIN THE POINT.

At a certain point, those two drills should become solid and then they would simply become warmup for drills will a larger degree of random in serve and receive.

Drill Three:

Drill Three:
1) Player One Serves backspin short:
2) Player Two pushes ANYWHERE (long, short, FH side, BH side, wide angle etc: anywhere)
3) Player One OPENS with either wing (Here is where you can start working on things like looping short backspin balls to the FH side with an over the table BH loop when you feel ready for that; OR FH flicks) (As long as player one attempts to open with an offensive shot, anything goes and the drill is a success).
4) OPEN RALLY, BOTH PLAYERS TRY TO WIN THE POINT.

Drill Four:
1) Player One Serves backspin short:
2) Player Two pushes short anywhere.
3) Player One pushes ANYWHERE.
4) PLAYER TWO OPENS with either wing.
5) OPEN RALLY, BOTH PLAYERS TRY TO WIN THE POINT.

Drill Five:
1) Player One serves his most evil and nastiest serves, all of them.
2) Player Two works on returning serve.
Ideally this drill is done with lots of different players to get used to receiving as many different serves as possible from as many different players.

Drill Six:
Full game simulation without counting points.
1) Player One serves as if in a match.
2) Player Two returns serve.
3) Open Play.
This drill should be done with each player doing two serves that the other player can make an attempt at returning and then you switch who serves, exactly like in a match. However, if the server misses a serve (which would be a point in a real match) this should be counted as a let so the player receiving serve gets to actually attempt to receive TWO serves.

At a certain point, the first five drills could be used as a warmup for drill number 6.

And of course, drill six should be almost exactly like a match but without counting points so you can try the shots you should try; whereas, often in a match, certain players get stuck taking shots that they shouldn't because they don't have confidence taking the shots they actually should. And drill six is to prepare you for an actual match, so, also warmup in a sense.
 
Last edited:
says Spin and more spin.
says Spin and more spin.
🏆 Top 1% Commenter
Well-Known Member
Moderator
Dec 2010
16,559
18,306
56,468
Read 11 reviews
This video:


If you just start at 4:44 you will see some of the sickest most evil random multiball training. But if you watch the whole video and have your brain geared to analyzing what skills ZJK is working on with each different drill you will learn a lot about how much higher level training can get. :)

Hope you have fun with that.

Also, note how different ZJK's footwork is in those random drills than anyone's footwork would be in those simplified and idealized drills like 2 FH -> 2 BH or a drill like Falkenberg.
 
Last edited:
Top