Fan zhendong, Ma Long and Cheng Meng announces Retirement from WTT/ITTF

[Tony's Table Tennis]

If it's not a failure of WTT as an organisation then what is?

I hope they knew about FZD's plan to retire, and they should have figured something out. They should have changed whatever rules needed to keep the olympic champions in.

If they didn't know about his plans and if his retirement came as a surprise then the problem is even worse.

it is not uncommon that post Olympic games, champions retire.
ZJK is a bigger name than FZD.

However, when FZD didn't play for 2nd half of 2024, fans are like missing him.
he accumulated 5 ZPP, he was already 5/8 from 0 points.

FZD talked about retiring after Paris.
Ma Long was going to retire before Paris and CTTA kept him on.

I'm not sure if it is WTT's job to keep FZD going, especially FZD could just be like ZJK and has enough of table tennis.
If FZD didn't get olympic gold, I am pretty sure, he could still fight for 2028.

or just maybe, LGL letter hurt FZD
FZD is probably not on CNT's list for 2028 and FZD doesn't want to become Chen Meng no 2.
Chen Meng with 2 OG golds will never get a hero send off and FZD can leave on the high today. If he took away WCQ gold in 2028,,,, he would be a villain

To me the timing is just too close. LGL letter, and then FZD retirement without showing a CTTA signed letter.
and so far CTTA/LGL is silent on the matter (2 days already).

 

[driversbeat]

Big opportunity for regional leagues to invite more international players.
Hope WTT gets the finger it deserves.

 

[Robin0910]

it is not uncommon that post Olympic games, champions retire.
ZJK is a bigger name than FZD.

However, when FZD didn't play for 2nd half of 2024, fans are like missing him.
he accumulated 5 ZPP, he was already 5/8 from 0 points.

FZD talked about retiring after Paris.
Ma Long was going to retire before Paris and CTTA kept him on.

I'm not sure if it is WTT's job to keep FZD going, especially FZD could just be like ZJK and has enough of table tennis.
If FZD didn't get olympic gold, I am pretty sure, he could still fight for 2028.

or just maybe, LGL letter hurt FZD
FZD is probably not on CNT's list for 2028 and FZD doesn't want to become Chen Meng no 2.
Chen Meng with 2 OG golds will never get a hero send off and FZD can leave on the high today. If he took away WCQ gold in 2028,,,, he would be a villain

To me the timing is just too close. LGL letter, and then FZD retirement without showing a CTTA signed letter.
and so far CTTA/LGL is silent on the matter (2 days already).

I don’t think he’d be deemed a ”villain” for snatching gold against let’s say Wang Chuqin in LA2028. It’d be the same as Ma Long did in Tokyo. Wang Chuqin will be 28 in 2028 (or even more if rumours are true). Whether he won or not he’d probably be substituted by someone like Lin Shidong or someone even younger.
the problem with SYS not winning was because of her youth, the start of a female legend could’ve been created with that gold making tt even more popular and getting more sponsorship deals. I don’t think WCQ would hold the same significance in 2028 at 28 years old, unless he started winning everything before including both WTTCs and every world cup, etc.

Perhaps, he would receive backlash if he defeated Lin Shidong or someone like that in the final but I believe Fan Zhendong is just too liked by many that he’d not receive any backlash at all just like how Ma Long didn’t receive any and was instead saluted in Tokyo 2021.

But this is all hypothetical because it’s clear that Fan is not gonna play in 2028.

 

[TTHopeful]

Fan Zhendong replies to WTT's statement on Weibo:

刚仔细阅读了WTT的声明，本着严谨的原则和对国际组织的尊重，简单补充几句：处罚不参赛球员的相关内容具体何时首次出现，我不确定，但确定此前从未被官方告知过退赛要罚款，个人猜测是因为今年底以前WTT尚未形成完整赛历。我本人是上周接到的正式通知，说明年起WTT会严格执行最新颁布的处罚规定。本周一收到文件，当天即签名上交。感谢大家的关心，我深爱乒乓球运动，也衷心祝愿国际组织越来越好。

I have just read the WTT statement carefully. In line with the principle of rigor and respect for international organizations, I would like to add a few simple words: I am not sure when the relevant content of punishing non-participating players first appeared, but I am sure that I have never been officially informed that I will be fined for withdrawing from the competition. My personal guess is that WTT has not yet formed a complete schedule before the end of this year. I received the official notice last week, saying that WTT will strictly implement the latest penalty regulations starting next year. I received the document on Monday this week and signed and submitted it on the same day. Thank you for your concern. I love table tennis and sincerely hope that international organizations will get better and better.

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

Fan Zhendong replies to WTT's statement on Weibo:

刚仔细阅读了WTT的声明，本着严谨的原则和对国际组织的尊重，简单补充几句：处罚不参赛球员的相关内容具体何时首次出现，我不确定，但确定此前从未被官方告知过退赛要罚款，个人猜测是因为今年底以前WTT尚未形成完整赛历。我本人是上周接到的正式通知，说明年起WTT会严格执行最新颁布的处罚规定。本周一收到文件，当天即签名上交。感谢大家的关心，我深爱乒乓球运动，也衷心祝愿国际组织越来越好。

I have just read the WTT statement carefully. In line with the principle of rigor and respect for international organizations, I would like to add a few simple words: I am not sure when the relevant content of punishing non-participating players first appeared, but I am sure that I have never been officially informed that I will be fined for withdrawing from the competition. My personal guess is that WTT has not yet formed a complete schedule before the end of this year. I received the official notice last week, saying that WTT will strictly implement the latest penalty regulations starting next year. I received the document on Monday this week and signed and submitted it on the same day. Thank you for your concern. I love table tennis and sincerely hope that international organizations will get better and better.

so this sounds like what zeio is saying, CTTA isn't communicating with their players??
and who has been paying FZD's fines in 2024? CTTA then and not FZD?

WTT complete schedule is maybe not 100% complete but by Oct it was 85% complete. I had a schedule from Europe
I will be in disbelieve that CNT wouldn't have the same copy I had, if not a more complete version and maybe even earlier too.

As evidence, I used that schedule to create a dozen 2025 threads on TTD. You guys can go check the dates of when I opened those threads.
I open that thread probably 1 or 2 weeks after I receive the schedule.

I have to say, 2025 schedule is provided a lot earlier than for 2024.
2024 was very late (in fact in Jan, 2024, schedule for March 2024 was still happening)

If any, Youth Smash Singapore was the one that has upsetted coaches and federation and made me waste a lot of time to re arrange scheduling for leagues. But FZD case won't apply in Singapore Youth Smash late announcement.

 

[Machi]

it is not uncommon that post Olympic games, champions retire.
ZJK is a bigger name than FZD.

However, when FZD didn't play for 2nd half of 2024, fans are like missing him.
he accumulated 5 ZPP, he was already 5/8 from 0 points.

FZD talked about retiring after Paris.
Ma Long was going to retire before Paris and CTTA kept him on.

I'm not sure if it is WTT's job to keep FZD going, especially FZD could just be like ZJK and has enough of table tennis.
If FZD didn't get olympic gold, I am pretty sure, he could still fight for 2028.

or just maybe, LGL letter hurt FZD
FZD is probably not on CNT's list for 2028 and FZD doesn't want to become Chen Meng no 2.
Chen Meng with 2 OG golds will never get a hero send off and FZD can leave on the high today. If he took away WCQ gold in 2028,,,, he would be a villain

To me the timing is just too close. LGL letter, and then FZD retirement without showing a CTTA signed letter.
and so far CTTA/LGL is silent on the matter (2 days already).

What is zpp? What does it stand for?

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

What is zpp? What does it stand for?

Zero points penalty

You get 8 x best points for world ranking
Fzd had 5 x zpp
So his world ranking only added 3 of his best points

 

[Sims]

FZD can still surpass Ma Long, he can win a couple more WTTCs and another gold in 2028.

I for one hope he comes back and gives it a shot! Gonna miss watching him this season.....

 

[TTHopeful]

CCTV showing Aruna and French players

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

so the same boss in CTTA is also boss in WTT

I am still waiting for CTTA's statement.
FZD sure is making his boss in a very awkward position and there are rumors of other issues at stake and this might not just be a WTT issue.

WTT had to try and bring Chinese players together.
with ITTF world and pro tours, they only played few platinum events a year.

Did WTT succeed in getting CNT to play more? Yes.
Did WTT increased pool of prize money for players compared to ITTF days? yes.
Did they have a better camera again (I just had to add it, lol)? no

so say WTT canned all the ZPP and Smash/Champion prize money all together, because you can't guarantee top 30 players being there and go back to the 2018 era of players really choosing what to play (with lesser prize money) is also not the solution.

Schedule is cramped, that is for sure, but only 10~12 events a year are mandatory and judging by the WTT 2 highest tier event, the income potential and where possibly the flights for these players are paid for, with no further costs, it is really managable (just pitching gives you world ranking points and money for example).

There are confusion within chinese fans, thinking even feeders are mandatory.... but those fans are just unable to find truths when they heads are locked in attack mode.

some western world are attacking WTT, but the Chinese fandom is creating a lot of attack and its 3 days now of CTTA being quiet on the matter.
Fandom is a problem for Chinese leadership, its not like they can bring out tanks to disperse the crowd and I guess this is something interesting for us to see how they will manage it. (so my view isn't on WTT, but rather on CTTA, on this matter)

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

What to expect in the next 24 hours that could give more information to this drama?

1) to see if FZD is still on the world ranking list tomorrow (Singapore time 8am)
If no, that means CTTA signed and accepted and submit to WTT for removal of FZD as he "retired" from internationals. Meaning this retirement has the approval of CTTA.

If yes, still on the world ranking list, that means CTTA did not sign and accept and did not submit the retirement to WTT. This means this is no longer a WTT issue.

2) long awaited statement from CTTA/LGL

 

[JackJohnson]

so the same boss in CTTA is also boss in WTT

I am still waiting for CTTA's statement.
FZD sure is making his boss in a very awkward position and there are rumors of other issues at stake and this might not just be a WTT issue.

WTT had to try and bring Chinese players together.
with ITTF world and pro tours, they only played few platinum events a year.

Did WTT succeed in getting CNT to play more? Yes.
Did WTT increased pool of prize money for players compared to ITTF days? yes.
Did they have a better camera again (I just had to add it, lol)? no

so say WTT canned all the ZPP and Smash/Champion prize money all together, because you can't guarantee top 30 players being there and go back to the 2018 era of players really choosing what to play (with lesser prize money) is also not the solution.

Schedule is cramped, that is for sure, but only 10~12 events a year are mandatory and judging by the WTT 2 highest tier event, the income potential and where possibly the flights for these players are paid for, with no further costs, it is really managable (just pitching gives you world ranking points and money for example).

There are confusion within chinese fans, thinking even feeders are mandatory.... but those fans are just unable to find truths when they heads are locked in attack mode.

some western world are attacking WTT, but the Chinese fandom is creating a lot of attack and its 3 days now of CTTA being quiet on the matter.
Fandom is a problem for Chinese leadership, its not like they can bring out tanks to disperse the crowd and I guess this is something interesting for us to see how they will manage it. (so my view isn't on WTT, but rather on CTTA, on this matter)

Isn’t this a clear conflict of interest. LGL is CTTA President, ITTF Deputy President and WTT Board Chair.

No way in other sports organisation would this be allowed.

 

[zeio]

Welcome to the dark side of table tennis (no pun intended).

Petra Sorling, current president of ITTF (2021-), is a former SBTF president (2013-2022, 2005-2013);
Thomas Weikert, former president of DTTB (2005-2015), is a former ITTF president (2014-2021);
Adham Sharara, current president of TTCanada (?-), is a former ITTF president (1999-2014);
Claudia Herweg, former president of DTTB (2021-2023) and former Managing Director of ESN (1993-2011), served as the Head of the ITTF Equipment (2018-2021), the new office of which is in Cologne, where Claudia Herweg Consulting (2012-) is also located.

---

For future reference so I don't have to dig them up again.

https://documents.ittf.sport/sites/default/files/public/2023-04/2022-10-09_EC_Minutes_p.pdf

5.5.2. Equipment
The EC noted that the ITTF is seeking an equipment manager following Ms Claudia
HERWEG election as DTTB President.

https://documents.ittf.sport/sites/default/files/public/2023-04/2022-12-03_EC_Minutes_p.pdf

5.5.2. Equipment
Mr SYMONS expressed being pleased with the hiring of the new Head of Equipment.

https://documents.ittf.sport/sites/default/files/public/2023-04/2022-07-26_27_EC_Minutes_p_0.pdf

5.5.2. Equipment
The EC noted the report of Mr SYMONS on the process of hiring a Head of Equipment, and
the current areas of focus, with the measurement devices when dismantling rackets, the
different types of surfaces and their impact on the ball bounce, and the materials for the
blades. Among the upcoming focus, Mr SYMONS named sustainable materials for equipment
and the net height study, which will involve the AC and the SSMC.
The EC noted that although the balls utilised in the Europe Summer Series did pass the quality
controls, athletes and coaches complained about them. Therefore, it was agreed to review
the standards for ball approvals.

https://documents.ittf.sport/sites/default/files/public/2023-07/2023-03-17_EB_Minutes_p.pdf

5.9.3. Equipment
The EB welcomed Mr Ivan CHEN to the position of Equipment Manager. Mr SYMONS
commented on two propositions that will be eventually presented for EB consideration to
be submitted to the AGM and on the progress of the pilot project on racket control. Mr
CHEN added that the data from the two events in which the project was held is being
reviewed and, eventually, another two events will be proposed for new tests in order to
collect more data.

https://documents.ittf.sport/sites/default/files/public/2024-02/2023-08-21_EB_Minutes_p.pdf

11.3. Committee Updates
The EB noted the proposal from the nominations committee and noted that the EB has the
prerogative to propose names of committee chairs to the ITTF Council at the meeting on
Wednesday. Within the package of documents, there is the full list of nominees from the
associations, proposed names from committee members, and the EB would have to make a
decision on the chairs. Mr CALIN went through the list and explained that Sustainability is a new
committee.
Mr MAEHARA raised a comment on the Equipment Committee, noting that there are several
large table tennis equipment managers in Japan. Mr MAEHARA opined that it would be good to
include a Japanese member in the Equipment Committee to communicate better and allow the
ITTF to maintain better relationships with these equipment manufacturers.
Mr CALIN acknowledged Mr MAEHARA’s comments and noted that the EB duty is proposing the
Committee Chairs to the ITTF Council.
Ms SÖRLING acknowledged Mr MAEHARA’s comment and noted that this would be addressed
after a vote has been taken on proposal from the nominations committee.

20230821-EB-06
The Executive Board approved a proposed list of Chairs for the ITTF Council.

Ms SÖRLING noted the diversity within the committees and noted the importance of having the
regions active. Ms SÖRLING remarked that the ITTF should always look of course to competence,
but that it was good to see diversity as well.
Mr CALIN addressed Mr MAEHARA’s specific question from earlier. It was noted that the EB does
not have a say on the Nominations for Committees Members, as this is a prerogative of the
Nominations Committee. Mr CALIN explained that the ITTF Constitution specifies that a
minimum of 25% of members have to be female if nominations are received. As such, the names
of two women have been included in the list, both of them being from Asia. It was noted that
Dr MESHREF and Mr OSHODI recommended that ITTF EB could appoint the Japanese member
as a special advisor, co-opted by the EB and this would not be in contravention of the procedures
of the Nomination Committee.
Ms SÖRLING noted that there have been appointed special advisors in the past. Ms SÖRLING
then put before the EB for approval: the appointment of HASEGAWA Atsushi (JPN) as special
advisor for the equipment committee.

20230821-EB-07
The Executive Board approved the appointment of HASEGAWA Atsushi (JPN) as special advisor for
the equipment committee.

Mr CALIN reported on the meeting held the previous evening with Mr OSHODI, Dr MESHREF,
and the Nominations Committee Chair, Mr AL-MULLA, in which the committees were reviewed,
noting that there was an inconsistency with the ITTF Constitution in the Sustainability
Committee, where there would be one member from each continent. It was agreed to encourage
the missing Continents (Americas and Oceania) to propose a member that can be co-opted for
the rest of the mandate.
In relation to the URC, after having hired Ms Tina CROTTA as Match Officials Manager, the first
ever staff to focus specifically on Technical Officials, it was counter-intuitive to increase the size
of the URC, particularly when the Council decided a reduction the previous year.
Ms SÖRLING noted that the EB should be ready to move on in this area as well and thanked Mr
CALIN for his contribution in solving this important matter. Ms SÖRLING expressed hope that all
the members in the nominations committee have been updated and that communication remains
very important.
Mr AL-MOHANNADI raised the issue of Swiss Table Tennis. Mr CALIN noted that for the ease of
communication, he would discuss with Swiss Table Tennis. A meeting was called in July wherein
Mr CALIN explained the severity of the case to Swiss Table Tennis representatives and shared
that DTTB had paid a compensation to the ITTF in relation to the “DTTB Letter” case. Mr CALIN
noted that following the meeting, Swiss Table Tennis had clearer idea on why a financial
compensation was requested by the ITTF besides the public apology. It was agreed that once
the proposed draft of apology is ready, it should be shared with the affected person, Mr AL-
MOHANNADI, for his approval.
Ms SÖRLING noted that this issue with Swiss Table Tennis is indeed more severe than the issue
with DTTB and looked forward to a progress report at the next meeting.

 

[yamagata]

The ZPP (points penalty issued by WTT) is about the worst thing I have ever heard about. WTT actually manipulates the ranking system?

 

[JackJohnson]

Welcome to the dark side of table tennis (no pun intended).

Petra Sorling, current president of ITTF (2021-), is a former SBTF president (2013-2022, 2005-2013);
Thomas Weikert, former president of DTTB (2005-2015), is a former ITTF president (2014-2021);
Adham Sharara, current president of TTCanada (?-), is a former ITTF president (1999-2014);
Claudia Herweg, former president of DTTB (2021-2023) and former Managing Director of ESN (1993-2011), served as the Head of the ITTF Equipment (2018-2021), the new office of which is in Cologne, where Claudia Herweg Consulting (2012-) is also located.

---

For future reference so I don't have to dig them up again.

https://documents.ittf.sport/sites/default/files/public/2023-04/2022-10-09_EC_Minutes_p.pdf

https://documents.ittf.sport/sites/default/files/public/2023-04/2022-12-03_EC_Minutes_p.pdf

https://documents.ittf.sport/sites/default/files/public/2023-04/2022-07-26_27_EC_Minutes_p_0.pdf

https://documents.ittf.sport/sites/default/files/public/2023-07/2023-03-17_EB_Minutes_p.pdf

https://documents.ittf.sport/sites/default/files/public/2024-02/2023-08-21_EB_Minutes_p.pdf

I hope they implement some changes in the future so there cannot be a conflict of interest.

 

[JackJohnson]

The ZPP (points penalty issued by WTT) is about the worst thing I have ever heard about. WTT actually manipulates the ranking system?

ZPP would be fine if ITTF/WTT were paying players a decent monthly salary and flights & accommodation covered by them for competing at these events but since ITTF/WTT aren’t doing these things they have no right to ask players to pay a fine to skip these events and the fine can be greater than the prize money if the players lose in the early rounds.

I would be interested to see ITTF/WTT financial statements to see how much profits and losses they have made each year.

 

[TTHopeful]

Have any players spoke on Weibo about this situation? ML etc

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

ZPP would be fine if ITTF/WTT were paying players a decent monthly salary and flights & accommodation covered by them for competing at these events but since ITTF/WTT aren’t doing these things they have no right to ask players to pay a fine to skip these events and the fine can be greater than the prize money if the players lose in the early rounds.

I would be interested to see ITTF/WTT financial statements to see how much profits and losses they have made each year.

when there is ZPP, WTT does pay for accommodation and prize money just for pitching up. there is no entry fee or costs for meals/accommodation - it is all free.
only cost is flights.

the fines many are talking about out there (being clueless) are fines for withdraw from WTT events and then playing another TT related tournament.

Smash and Champion is where the money is, and that is where the action is.
if you have 30 of the top 30 players entered, you can attract better sponsors and better viewership (this is where the potential money is).
But the problem is, what happens when 15 of them withdraw because there is nothing forbidding them of doing it?
maybe 3 of them got injured and has medical certificate.
and 5 of them withdraw because Waldner decides to have another cup and pays better
and 7 of them want to do something else.

how do you host a tournament when your participation is not guaranteed?
does ATP and Badminton not have fines or penalties for withdrawing?

the one got injured won't get zpp
the one that goes to play another tournament will get zpp + fine
the one that don't pitch for something else, if not tt related, won't get those heavy fines.

So as much as I agree (I started it on TTD) that scheduling is a nightmare, WTT has 10 events where it is mandatory (6 Smash and 4 Champions) and it only affect top 30 players.

If players like Harimoto wants to play 22 events a year, that is his problem
WTT wants 10 + 1 final.
ITTF wants 1 WTTC and 1 WC
Continental maybe 1 each.

asking a pro to take part in 10~15 internationals a year is not unreasonable imo.
plus, get a doctor note and say your fingers is sore, and need rest x 3.... your problem solved?

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

Have any players spoke on Weibo about this situation? ML etc

CNT is very dead quiet
only have few thousand fan pissed at the moment at WTT
or 10s of thousand... lost count

 

[MaLang]

when there is ZPP, WTT does pay for accommodation and prize money just for pitching up. there is no entry fee or costs for meals/accommodation - it is all free.
only cost is flights.

the fines many are talking about out there (being clueless) are fines for withdraw from WTT events and then playing another TT related tournament.

Smash and Champion is where the money is, and that is where the action is.
if you have 30 of the top 30 players entered, you can attract better sponsors and better viewership (this is where the potential money is).
But the problem is, what happens when 15 of them withdraw because there is nothing forbidding them of doing it?
maybe 3 of them got injured and has medical certificate.
and 5 of them withdraw because Waldner decides to have another cup and pays better
and 7 of them want to do something else.

how do you host a tournament when your participation is not guaranteed?
does ATP and Badminton not have fines or penalties for withdrawing?

the one got injured won't get zpp
the one that goes to play another tournament will get zpp + fine
the one that don't pitch for something else, if not tt related, won't get those heavy fines.

So as much as I agree (I started it on TTD) that scheduling is a nightmare, WTT has 10 events where it is mandatory (6 Smash and 4 Champions) and it only affect top 30 players.

If players like Harimoto wants to play 22 events a year, that is his problem
WTT wants 10 + 1 final.
ITTF wants 1 WTTC and 1 WC
Continental maybe 1 each.

asking a pro to take part in 10~15 internationals a year is not unreasonable imo.
plus, get a doctor note and say your fingers is sore, and need rest x 3.... your problem solved?

I agree 80%. There is not enough Money in the scene and if we cannot guarantee top Players to play at Events, there is even less.

However I do think, that there should be 1/2 skips per year for all pro Players, in case they want to take a Break/play a regional League. Probably 1 Champions skip and 1 Grand Smash skip (also useable for another Champions event) that is free of any monetary or WR Points penalty.

And Grand Smash Qualifier Field is currently also automatic entry which is not really needed. in case there are too few open entries, players that exceed NER could be allowed in Qualifiers. That would also allow associations like China, Japan, Korea, Germany, France to enter a wider variety of players.