Fast or Spinny. How to get both at the same time

[Fantastic_Muffin_D]

Hi guys, recently I'm noticing more on rythm and spin of my ball. I can loop to make the ball really fast by take it on the bounce or near the highest (brush loops not smash loop) but it's gonna be less spinny. I can also loop spinny by taking the ball later and it's gonna be more spinny but it's kinda slower a bit and the opponent has some rythm to notice.
I already tried to springy all of body (legs, core and foream&wrist) at the moment of the contact but my ball still lacking something. My setup is H3 blue forehand and D09C BH on Vis.
I offset people usually by my consistency and my placement; spin, maybe on 3rd ball or some specific situation.
I block for people higher than me (2000+), I felt like their ball have weight and stuff, it's like usually if you block a smash loop u have to open the racket and go forward or close more with a spinny loop. But with their normal topspin loop I have to do both at the same time in order to make a successful block, which suggested their loops has both forward force and spin.
Do I need to penetrate/brush the ball more thick? Or I have to wait more then put a full stroke with acceleration and penetration?

 

[Tyce]

A fast spinny loop would ideally:

Compress the topsheet and sponge, but not bottom out completely, so you maximize the contact time,
Provide acceleration throughout the contact (there are a few great YouTube videos on how to drive through the ball, those basics can be applied to this as well)
Add a lot of rotation during the contact, where a whippy wrist motion is the best option
For maximum result, you want to hit the bat not dead in the middle of the rubber, but 1-2cm away from the top edge, so as to get maximum speed out of the wrist motion

Those elements combined make lethal shots. Improving any of them will help, but adding a good wrist whip is paramount

 

[Amayzde]

To get both you need something called 'explosiveness' in you strokes.

 

[pingpongpaddy]

Hi guys, recently I'm noticing more on rythm and spin of my ball. I can loop to make the ball really fast by take it on the bounce or near the highest (brush loops not smash loop) but it's gonna be less spinny. I can also loop spinny by taking the ball later and it's gonna be more spinny but it's kinda slower a bit and the opponent has some rythm to notice.
I already tried to springy all of body (legs, core and foream&wrist) at the moment of the contact but my ball still lacking something. My setup is H3 blue forehand and D09C BH on Vis.
I offset people usually by my consistency and my placement; spin, maybe on 3rd ball or some specific situation.
I block for people higher than me (2000+), I felt like their ball have weight and stuff, it's like usually if you block a smash loop u have to open the racket and go forward or close more with a spinny loop. But with their normal topspin loop I have to do both at the same time in order to make a successful block, which suggested their loops has both forward force and spin.
Do I need to penetrate/brush the ball more thick? Or I have to wait more then put a full stroke with acceleration and penetration?

hi fantastic
If you think carefully about it you'll realise:-

Increasing the speed of the ball through the air, reduces the potential max spin possible for that shot
Increasing the revs of the ball reduces the potential speed through the air of the shot in question

Both kinds of shot are dependent on the speed of the racket at contact with the ball.
when you do a flat shot it all the force goes purely forward.

When you do a topspin shot its quite a bit more complicated:-

Part of your swing is generating pure forward energy, but also part of it is generating a brushing tangential energy which means that the proportions of spin speed can vary tremendously.
Also in the case of topspin, that spin, (by rotating forward like a wheel) will induce some acceleration off the bounce.
Perhaps its best to consider Max Power flat shots to be faster through the air than Max Power brushing Shots, but it might well be that you will think Drives with big Topspin seem heavier than flat ones, depending which kind you prefer to Block. Personally I think that though Big topspin has a better margin for error and so more accurate, Flatter shot are more effective because there is less time for the blocker and with less arc they are harder to read than loopy shots

 

[RefereeNumber2]

Studying and practicing technique will let you more efficiently translate the force generated by your body into racket speed.

I also think it's useful to understand how the rubber generates spin when it contacts the ball, because it gets at your question about contacting the ball more thickly vs. thinly with the rubber. Brushing very thinly can produce a shot that has a high ratio of spin to speed (and thus lot of arc due to the combination of magnus effect and gravity relative to velocity), but in my experience those balls have less absolute spin (in terms of RPMs) than some harder shots which penetrate the sponge. The reason is that additional spin is generated by the combination of the rubber's grip and elasticity, which stretches tangentially as the ball contacts it and snaps back. If you were to purely "brush" the ball without causing the rubber+sponge to stretch, then the amount of spin on your shot is limited by the tangential velocity of the bat relative to the ball, which in turn would require you to swing extremely fast to get decent amounts of spin.

So I don't think it's so simple as there being a tradeoff between RPMs and ball velocity. Between pure brushing and pure hitting, there is an intermediate range that can produce higher-quality shots. The skill is in being able to produce those shots with enough control and consistency to deploy them how you want in a rally. It comes down to consistent technique, and feeling/understanding how your rubber generates spin.

 

[Fantastic_Muffin_D]

One thing is that I vary spin by rythm (wait or early) or sometimes by brush more. Sometimes, I felt like I got outpaced in fast game (although it's my game primarily) so therefore I need to play more control and with more gear to offset them. It's like the opponent shorter and more skinnier than me, so they are more compact and faster than me. I'm kinda tall, fit (6ft, 80kg).