Felix Lebrun should play short pips on FH

He would play with a much more effective attacking style. In addition to being really cool, I think there are a number of reasons to think this is a good idea.

1. Felix's backhand is already his main looping weapon, and he tends to only hit with his forehand when he is forced to. When Felix is forced to play a forehand shot, he is often out of position and needs to move quickly to get a good hit. Playing with pips will shorten the wind-up time for his forehand shot, and with the correct training, could result in a deadly flat-hit counterattack.

2. Felix takes the ball early, and almost never loops from below the table. If he was playing like Xu Xin, then pips has a disadvantage when taking the ball late. But Felix does not take the ball late. He takes the ball right off the bounce, and relies on surprising his opponent. Pips does a much better job of surprising the opponent than inverted rubber. Returning a fast topspin drive from inverted rubber isn't so hard, but it's very difficult to return a fast hit from pips because pips don't give spin for you to close the racket on.

3. Playing a TPB block with pips will help Felix to cover his middle, which is one of his biggest weaknesses. Because Felix uses RPB topspin almost 100% of the time, he neglects one of the main advantages of penhold: not having a crossover point. TPB pips will help him cover his middle, and it will be a fast active block.

4. Felix knows how to serve with RPB, so he will still be able to create very spinny serves. He could also change which side he uses to serve, and be deceptive up until the last instant. Currently, he does not take full advantage of his ability to deceive with the serve, because he has the same rubber on both sides of the racket. With pips on one side, he can add another dimension of deception with extremely fast pip serves.

5. Liu Guoliang has already demonstrated how to play this style at a high level. Mattias Falck demonstrates that this can be done in the modern game. Felix would be in a much better position than Liu Guoliang because his RPB is extremely strong, and he would be in a much better position than Falck because he plays with penhold grip (much better for playing FH pips than shakehand grip).


The only disadvantages I see from this are:

1. Obviously there would be a learning period, during which Felix would drop in skill and lose a lot of matches

2. Felix will never learn how to play the Xu Xin-style game, taking the ball late and low, and looping with sidespin onto the table. During his match with Lin Yun-Ju this olympics, he was playing lower and farther from the table than he usually does, with lots of forehand sidespin, and I think this was a decisive factor in Felix's victory. I think Felix realized that mid-distance game was his weakness, and worked to improve on it. Maybe the correct direction for improvement is for Felix to develop a mid/far-distance looping game, instead of learning to hit with pips. But learning to play mid/far-distance would be a stylistic change, whereas pips would enhance his current style of quick hitting.

Thoughts? Are there any reasons I'm missing, pro or con?
 
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Just sharing a personal experience:
1. When Falck won Ma Long a few years back, I was so impressed with SP on FH.
2. Happy happy I went to buy a SP and place it on my FH.
3. I am a natural FH flat-hitter, a habit I find it so hard to overcome.
4. So it should be good right?
5. When I played, I lost under five to the lowest ranked player in my club immediately.

It is just not the same. I learned my lesson. Tenergy and Gozo, just like Koko Crunch(tm) & milk.
 
5. When I played, I lost under five to the lowest ranked player in my club immediately.

It is just not the same. I learned my lesson. Tenergy and Gozo, just like Koko Crunch(tm) & milk.
There's definitely a learning period where you will play worse. Pips doesn't work for everyone, but I think it can work for people who are already aggressive attackers who take the ball directly off the bounce. Taking the ball directly off the bounce is important for pips hitting -- if you let the ball drop at all you won't be able to hit with it.

How long did you try short pips before you decided it wasn't for you? I've been playing with SP for about 2 weeks. My level has gone down significantly, but I can feel it rising again and I am determined to get back to my previous level.
 
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I have a setup that's Yasaka Extra Special CPEN, Yinhe Uranus Pro + NUZN 50, but I'm still reluctant to fully switch over to short pips forehand because I love the feeling of forehand looping as a penholder.
However, I already took a 3 month break due to an internship, so I think now is the time if there is any to at least commit time to it.
 
One session of two hours. I tore away my pips after that and never touch pips ever again.
That was also my feeling after the first pips session. Very confusing. I think you need at least a few weeks to get used to it. After 2 weeks I am only beginning to see some improvements. Honestly I should probably stop but I am too obsessed with trying to play like Liu Guoliang and He Zhiwen :D
 
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interesting idea but I think clan Lebrun love the spin and the control that comes with it. In France team there is Jinan Yuan who plays with sp on the forehand, in their last double match with the other Lebrun she was hitting all reasonably high balls into the net , ugly scenes to watch in the high level, Alexis didn't seem to be enjoying this. As interesting your idea is I think it will never happen, the discussion now is that Felix is not as developped physically as his brother and the forehand will improve with time
 
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I doubt short pimples would benefit his play. Even if they did slightly, there is way more to it then just close to the table counter attacks.

He would lose out on more important aspects in his game like serve, short touch, pushes, delayed slow spinny attacks. You give all that up just to get a slight edge in 1 specific rally he is usually already dominant.

If anyone is going to play an unorthodox style like that to where it actually benefits their game, they usually get told to do it by their coach from a young age. Would Felix have been better is he played like Lui Guoliang from the beginning? We will never know, but there is no changing it now.
 
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There's an argument to be made that Felix could still benefit from a twiddling perspective because he already uses K3 on both sides. Of course, the twiddling argument is reductive in the sense that it would effectively diminish Felix's typically offensive rotation.
I personally think Felix could not transition smoothly into short pips because his grip makes it very hard to play TPB. I think switching to short pips wouldn't improve Felix's forehand because that is more of an issue of Felix sitting heavier on his backhand whereas more players sits heavy on their forehand. I do think if Felix has short pips, he can add a chopping strategy to his game, but at the top level, it'll just become a gimmick. Honestly I would pass on this opportunity in Felix and hope another penholder breaks out with short pips.
 
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He would play with a much more effective attacking style. In addition to being really cool, I think there are a number of reasons to think this is a good idea.

1. Felix's backhand is already his main looping weapon, and he tends to only hit with his forehand when he is forced to. When Felix is forced to play a forehand shot, he is often out of position and needs to move quickly to get a good hit. Playing with pips will shorten the wind-up time for his forehand shot, and with the correct training, could result in a deadly flat-hit counterattack.
he can always train on his position and move better/quicker.
he is only 17 years old

2. Felix takes the ball early, and almost never loops from below the table. If he was playing like Xu Xin, then pips has a disadvantage when taking the ball late. But Felix does not take the ball late. He takes the ball right off the bounce, and relies on surprising his opponent. Pips does a much better job of surprising the opponent than inverted rubber. Returning a fast topspin drive from inverted rubber isn't so hard, but it's very difficult to return a fast hit from pips because pips don't give spin for you to close the racket on.
again, he is only 17 years old, the issues you list is changing by training.
3. Playing a TPB block with pips will help Felix to cover his middle, which is one of his biggest weaknesses. Because Felix uses RPB topspin almost 100% of the time, he neglects one of the main advantages of penhold: not having a crossover point. TPB pips will help him cover his middle, and it will be a fast active block.
TPB pips block on 40+ ball, with incoming men's pace?
Name one RPB player who can do TPB block today?
4. Felix knows how to serve with RPB, so he will still be able to create very spinny serves. He could also change which side he uses to serve, and be deceptive up until the last instant. Currently, he does not take full advantage of his ability to deceive with the serve, because he has the same rubber on both sides of the racket. With pips on one side, he can add another dimension of deception with extremely fast pip serves.
his serves are very good already.....
5. Liu Guoliang has already demonstrated how to play this style at a high level. Mattias Falck demonstrates that this can be done in the modern game. Felix would be in a much better position than Liu Guoliang because his RPB is extremely strong, and he would be in a much better position than Falck because he plays with penhold grip (much better for playing FH pips than shakehand grip).
LGL is what size ball era?
Who is Falck, where is he?

The only disadvantages I see from this are:

1. Obviously there would be a learning period, during which Felix would drop in skill and lose a lot of matches
yes, it will take a long time and maybe Felix will never climb back up, because there is no one in that level playing SP in this era.
Not even LP choppers are able to.
2. Felix will never learn how to play the Xu Xin-style game, taking the ball late and low, and looping with sidespin onto the table.
and who says that is the best penhold style to play?
why should Felix even learn or copy XX?
During his match with Lin Yun-Ju this olympics, he was playing lower and farther from the table than he usually does, with lots of forehand sidespin, and I think this was a decisive factor in Felix's victory. I think Felix realized that mid-distance game was his weakness, and worked to improve on it. Maybe the correct direction for improvement is for Felix to develop a mid/far-distance looping game, instead of learning to hit with pips. But learning to play mid/far-distance would be a stylistic change, whereas pips would enhance his current style of quick hitting.
you are spot on here, (finally).
This change is not as difficult as "stylistic change" as you put it.
Thoughts? Are there any reasons I'm missing, pro or con?

I took the liberty to answer or comment on every point, as SP change is just a terrible/ridiculous suggestion.

I think people need to stop trying to compare Felix to that of Xu Xin. Felix is a rare breed and the French coaches are doing a fine job.
Xu Xin had all the top penholders grooming for decades, and he is how successful in Olympics?

The current best penholder in the world is French.
second is from Germany
third is from HK
China's penholder should probably change to SP, because they are not doing too well :p
 
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The current best penholder in the world is French.
second is from Hong Kong.
China's penholder should probably change to SP, because they are not doing too well :p
You are forgetting a certain German penholder, who by the way, is doing quite well without SP on forehand as well.
 
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One session of two hours. I tore away my pips after that and never touch pips ever again.
10+ years ago in Korea, I tried Short Pips on my BH... tossed them away before the end of 5 minutes.

Tried them again in 2024 on BH... WOW, I can use them.

I guess over time I strike my with a more open bat... so using SP was easier.
 
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I think the best thing the French coaches could do for both LeBrun brothers is sign them up for healthy diet and work with a fitness trainer.
You'll notice that Alex is sporting a little pot belly already which is sad for a lad representing his country at world level..
I agree that they are naturally fine specimens at the moment but the French association needs to ensure that they are strong enough to be around for the next decade.
 
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I think Felix just needs to improve his forehand technique.

He has a very compact stroke with an extremely bent arm. If he could go a bit more "chinese" with a more straight arm like xu xin and a bigger swing he could get more dangerous. Maybe not all the way straight like xu xin but at least a little more could maybe help him.
 
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I think the best thing the French coaches could do for both LeBrun brothers is sign them up for healthy diet and work with a fitness trainer.
You'll notice that Alex is sporting a little pot belly already which is sad for a lad representing his country at world level..
I agree that they are naturally fine specimens at the moment but the French association needs to ensure that they are strong enough to be around for the next decade.
I wonder if the the French association has a say in the matter.

I guess if they are the one funding the brothers, they could put KPI's in place and that includes certain fitness requirements
But I have not really seen that in TT before
 
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They do a lot of fitness already.

A larger swing would make for a more time consuming technique. His major advantage over competition is the ruthless speed of his game combined with good serves.

I think what he really needs is a plan B at the same level for when that doesn’t work for some reason.

And for when he gets older and slower
 
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