Finally grasped the essence of Chinese table tennis biomechanical principle! (Chain reaction of power from the ground)

[StreamOfWater]

Hello, everybody!

I am so pumped from yesterday, so I cannot hold it anymore and would like to share with everyone. I have been playing table tennis for 2 years in total, 1 year of Chinese penhold... I have been incredibly inspired by Chinese players. Watching countless Chinese videos, tournaments and matches of them playing made me literally addicted to table tennis. Yesterday, I spent a whole day recording my technique and comparing as well as analysing to that of Chinese pros like Ma Long's. I couldn't grasp how they look so effortless, yet fluid and incredibly explosive... all that insane concentrated force from nothing! Many coaches, videos and players claim that it's simply a weight transfer from one leg to another, a rotation... But that's wrong. I understand why it's hard to explain now, because huge part of table tennis is the feeling, although surely not a rocket science! Yesterday, in the evening, something clicked, I felt that chain reaction, my whole body snapping... It's whole different feeling, the torque is insane. I honestly shed a tear 🥲, the hard work has truly paid off. I'd say, my technique looks quite beautiful now, although still long way to go 😅

I would like to add that I have no professional coaching. I had 2 coaches in my life and I have learned more stuff by myself than from them...

Video below 👇

mad.mp4

drive.google.com

Original without editing 👇

Chinese weight transfer.mp4

drive.google.com

 

[NetProphet]

Hello, everybody!

I am so pumped from yesterday, so I cannot hold it anymore and would like to share with everyone. I have been playing table tennis for 2 years in total, 1 year of Chinese penhold... I have been incredibly inspired by Chinese players, made me almost honestly addicted to table tennis. Yesterday, I spent a whole day recording my technique and comparing as well as analysing to that of Chinese pros like Ma Long's. I couldn't grasp how they look so effortless, yet fluid and incredibly explosive... all that insane concentrated force from nothing! And, in the evening, something clicked, I felt that chain reaction, my whole body snapping... It's whole different feeling, the torque is insane. I honestly shed a tear 🥲, the hard work has truly paid off. I'd say, my technique looks quite beautiful now, although still long way to go 😅

I would like to add that I have no professional coaching. I had 2 coaches in my life and I have learned more stuff by myself than from them...

Video below 👇

mad.mp4

drive.google.com

It's great to feel a breakthrough like that after taking all the time to figure out and practice.
Is it working in matches for you?
Do you have any game footage or training? Be great to see the impacts at the table!

 

[turbozed]

I've had these epiphanies quite a few times. Then came back to the club a few days later to find that my body had forgotten how to execute the technique again (usually FH loop) with the same secret sauce.

It's important to know that you're capable of it thr first time though. Hopefully it sticks better for you than it has been for me!

 

[Choccolate]

Hello, everybody!

I am so pumped from yesterday, so I cannot hold it anymore and would like to share with everyone. I have been playing table tennis for 2 years in total, 1 year of Chinese penhold... I have been incredibly inspired by Chinese players, made me almost honestly addicted to table tennis. Yesterday, I spent a whole day recording my technique and comparing as well as analysing to that of Chinese pros like Ma Long's. I couldn't grasp how they look so effortless, yet fluid and incredibly explosive... all that insane concentrated force from nothing! And, in the evening, something clicked, I felt that chain reaction, my whole body snapping... It's whole different feeling, the torque is insane. I honestly shed a tear 🥲, the hard work has truly paid off. I'd say, my technique looks quite beautiful now, although still long way to go 😅

I would like to add that I have no professional coaching. I had 2 coaches in my life and I have learned more stuff by myself than from them...

Video below 👇

mad.mp4

drive.google.com

I saw ma long is doing less movement when performing loop, he is not wasting any energy.

 

[StreamOfWater]

I saw ma long is doing less movement when performing loop, he is not wasting any energy.

Indeed, I am exaggerating it bit more purposely so it would be more evident!

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

Hello, everybody!

I am so pumped from yesterday, so I cannot hold it anymore and would like to share with everyone. I have been playing table tennis for 2 years in total, 1 year of Chinese penhold... I have been incredibly inspired by Chinese players, made me almost honestly addicted to table tennis. Yesterday, I spent a whole day recording my technique and comparing as well as analysing to that of Chinese pros like Ma Long's. I couldn't grasp how they look so effortless, yet fluid and incredibly explosive... all that insane concentrated force from nothing! And, in the evening, something clicked, I felt that chain reaction, my whole body snapping... It's whole different feeling, the torque is insane. I honestly shed a tear 🥲, the hard work has truly paid off. I'd say, my technique looks quite beautiful now, although still long way to go 😅

I would like to add that I have no professional coaching. I had 2 coaches in my life and I have learned more stuff by myself than from them...

Video below 👇

mad.mp4

drive.google.com

i also feel I look good when hitting the ball
but the quality is 0% compared to the elites.
hope you end up higher than me

good luck with your journey
now next is to put it on the table, and use balls, and incorporate timing and footworks.

 

[Amayzde]

Good one! Looks like you got it right!

Indeed, I am exaggerating it bit more purposely so it would be more evident!

At first its not a bad thing to exaggerate a bit to get the right movement down. As you practice more you will learn on how to do it more efficiently with smaller movements.

 

[StreamOfWater]

It's great to feel a breakthrough like that after taking all the time to figure out and practice.
Is it working in matches for you?
Do you have any game footage or training? Be great to see the impacts at the table!

Well, previously I was mostly just "shifting weight from one leg to another", basically simply rotating the body like most players do, which is quite wrong/incorrect, it's bit more complicated than that. I finally felt it just yesterday, so I wasn't able to test it yet + I am sure I won't be able to execute it in match yet, I need to engrave it into my body and brain, so I will continue to do countless shadow strokes followed by multiball. I will try to get some footage when it'll start to feel like second nature though! Thank you 😁

 

[StreamOfWater]

I've had these epiphanies quite a few times. Then came back to the club a few days later to find that my body had forgotten how to execute the technique again (usually FH loop) with the same secret sauce.

It's important to know that you're capable of it thr first time though. Hopefully it sticks better for you than it has been for me!

I see, well it's important to grind the crap out of the movement for it to stick... And I am sure you didn't forget, the most important part is understanding how the chain of energy should go, where it exactly starts and who creates it. Thank you for the comment! 👍

 

[StreamOfWater]

i also feel I look good when hitting the ball
but the quality is 0% compared to the elites.
hope you end up higher than me

good luck with your journey
now next is to put it on the table, and use balls, and incorporate timing and footworks.

I sure will! Thank you for the comment

 

[NetProphet]

I saw ma long is doing less movement when performing loop, he is not wasting any energy.

Yeah, Ma Long is pretty good at looping to be fair

 

[sebi]

Well, previously I was mostly just "shifting weight from one leg to another", basically simply rotating the body like most players do, which is quite wrong/incorrect, it's bit more complicated than that. I finally felt it just yesterday, so I wasn't able to test it yet + I am sure I won't be able to execute it in match yet, I need to engrave it into my body and brain, so I will continue to do countless shadow strokes followed by multiball. I will try to get some footage when it'll start to feel like second nature though! Thank you 😁

can you elaborate on that, how woukd you discribe the right movement

 

[StreamOfWater]

can you elaborate on that, how woukd you discribe the right movement

Well, it's indeed difficult to explain, you need to feel it. I am not an expert myself, however, if you want snappy Chinese "weight transfer", my best possible explanation would be something like this:

One must first understand that the idea is to make the weight transfer more than just simple rotation, it's supposed to snap the whole body, concentrate whole body's power into a stroke. Arm is supposed to almost whip automatically.

You should generally take a wider stance. If you are right handed, then your right leg should be more behind than your left, not excessively though. But you probably already know this... If right leg, as many say, is used for storing power, then left leg is an anchor - that's where the chain reaction begins. I'd even say that left part of the body becomes like an axis... The key lays in understanding of where the power starts. When you shift weight to your right leg, and drop your whole arm, relax the wrist, the first to move should be your left leg, followed by waist. It might sound contradictory, because right leg stores power, right? But it might be easier to feel it this way. Imagine like rotating your left leg outside, snapping it... You should explode! Push with your right leg, but focus on your left leg and waist, especially left side... Snap the left leg, explode, almost instantly after that your waist should follow, providing you a lot of torque, engage your core hard. Right after waist, your upper body should automatically follow the waist, while also forcing right shoulder infront - that's exactly where arm whip comes. Shoulder should whip your whole arm automatically. Then you finish right in front of you, preferably in front of eyes, brake, tense up your arm at the end only! Throughout the whole movement, your whole arm should be relaxed!

The main problem lays in continuity, you cannot simply imagine all these as separate, it's a chain, every detail explained happens simultaneously right after the other, like a chemical reaction, harmony. You supposed to feel the snap. My best advice is to record yourself. You'll see very evidently if you are stiff. If you do it correctly, the movement should be fluid, yet explosive. If you are having a hard time, then focus more on left side of the body, specifically your waist, it provides the necessary torque, although the power is stored in the right leg, it technically starts from there, but if you focus chain of power from the left leg, while pushing with the right... It might be easier to initiate the snap, as Chinese table tennis philosophy implies - drawing power from the ground! Good luck trying.

I hope this helps! 😁

 

[Jslick89]

Looks pretty good in your "shadow" form. LIke someone else said, now you have to do it with an actual ball coming at you, and with different speeds and levels of spin. Then you have to be able to do it when you're on the move. and then when you're transferring from a backhand to a forehand. and then when you dont know if its coming to your forehand or backand, and also to maintain the general form and kenetic chain when the ball is hit at your elbow.

I love this sport!

 

[StreamOfWater]

Looks pretty good in your "shadow" form. LIke someone else said, now you have to do it with an actual ball coming at you, and with different speeds and levels of spin. Then you have to be able to do it when you're on the move. and then when you're transferring from a backhand to a forehand. and then when you dont know if its coming to your forehand or backand, and also to maintain the general form and kenetic chain when the ball is hit at your elbow.

I love this sport!

Indeed, it's very complicated 😂, but it will definitely come with practice. A long way ahead...

 

[JeremiahFormerBullfrog]

i know the feeling of a breakthrough! very excited for you, keep us posted.

i found "drupe pong"'s video on biomechanics very useful in helping me come to a similar conclusion. The point that sticks with me is the one he talked about starting 3:36 in this video

i agree that "weight transfer" is a poor term for this, and can be likened more to "kinetic chain", a term in kinesiology that i've seen referenced in tennis and volleyball videos. here's one for volleyball:

. another good analogy is that of a whip, where moving the base strictly adds to the speed final speed, and it compounds to the speed of the tip.

 

[Zezima]

I don't want to sound rude or anything but this doesn't look applicable in an actual match.
First of all you have to adjust your stroke for each ball (gonna be different depending on the pace spin trajectory) so you can't train as if there is only 1 forehand stroke.

Also your left leg moves a lot. I haven't seen a pro player and you can also see ma long in the clip even going full on tiptoes like you. Doesn't seem sustainable anyway.

Also your arm looks very uncontrolled even though it's not tense. You will understand that you need the right balance here when hitting the balls in the drills.
Also what Ma Long does that you can't see just by watching the clip is that he actually holds the bat "tighter" during contact while your playing hand is lose (open hand). At the moment of contact you want to Hold the racket "tight". You could simulate this in your shadowdrill by doing a fist motion just when you would hit the ball (right before contacting the ball) - and letting it lose after (thats how I do it).

Also when starting to practise, start slow and go faster. In a real match you won't get perfect balls so what matters more is how you adjust your power level with how you position yourself to the ball and how much time you have left. My point is you can't just go from 0 to Ma Long level - not that I think you assume that I just think it's not the right way to start practising with full power right now - start slow. I can clearly see that each stroke of yours even though it's a shadow Drill is too different (trajectory and length).

Lots of critism but still want to give props for putting a video up here and giving your best.
If I said something wrong I apologize and hopefully get corrected by a better player.

 

[StreamOfWater]

I don't want to sound rude or anything but this doesn't look applicable in an actual match.
First of all you have to adjust your stroke for each ball (gonna be different depending on the pace spin trajectory) so you can't train as if there is only 1 forehand stroke.

Also your left leg moves a lot. I haven't seen a pro player and you can also see ma long in the clip even going full on tiptoes like you. Doesn't seem sustainable anyway.

Also your arm looks very uncontrolled even though it's not tense. You will understand that you need the right balance here when hitting the balls in the drills.
Also what Ma Long does that you can't see just by watching the clip is that he actually holds the bat "tighter" during contact while your playing hand is lose (open hand). At the moment of contact you want to Hold the racket "tight". You could simulate this in your shadowdrill by doing a fist motion just when you would hit the ball (right before contacting the ball) - and letting it lose after (thats how I do it).

Also when starting to practise, start slow and go faster. In a real match you won't get perfect balls so what matters more is how you adjust your power level with how you position yourself to the ball and how much time you have left. My point is you can't just go from 0 to Ma Long level - not that I think you assume that I just think it's not the right way to start practising with full power right now - start slow. I can clearly see that each stroke of yours even though it's a shadow Drill is too different (trajectory and length).

Lots of critism but still want to give props for putting a video up here and giving your best.
If I said something wrong I apologize and hopefully get corrected by a better player.

Thank you for the comment. Yeah, I agree with some of points. My example wasn't the best, as I am quite a beginner myself, I simply did it in the most evident way, purposely exaggerated the motion, so it would be easier to see the kinetic chain, whip and generated power. My sudden stop imitates the tension of the arm and tightness of the racket. I understand that arm needs to tense up during contact, mostly for braking and reducing the stroke lenght, also for stabilization, of course. I honestly doubt that closing or opening the palm makes a difference here, as the initial idea/principle is there. The trajectory and execution of identic strokes wasn't the intention here, just as title of the thread suggests. As for applicability, this very much could be used for a counter loop or underspin loop, as the stroke is explosive and should really let the ball bite into the rubber, activating the Chinese sponge. I already got it to feel firsthand... As for my arm, I might be wrong here, but I feel like it's indeed fairly controlled, it has a stable and consistent, snappy, "whippy" trajectory. It's like a drawing a line, I'd say - is it easier to draw straight/consistent line by going slow and careful or with a fast and controlled stroke? 😁

The Ma Long clip was just for the comparison to spot the kinetic chain, as that was the whole idea of this post - biomechanical principle of Chinese table tennis weight transfer

Additionally, I thank you for the tips and suggestions.

 

[NetProphet]

Well, it's indeed difficult to explain, you need to feel it. I am not an expert myself, however, if you want snappy Chinese "weight transfer", my best possible explanation would be something like this:

One must first understand that the idea is to make the weight transfer more than just simple rotation, it's supposed to snap the whole body, concentrate whole body's power into a stroke. Arm is supposed to almost whip automatically.

You should generally take a wider stance. If you are right handed, then your right leg should be more behind than your left, not excessively though. But you probably already know this... If right leg, as many say, is used for storing power, then left leg is an anchor - that's where the chain reaction begins. I'd even say that left part of the body becomes like an axis... The key lays in understanding of where the power starts. When you shift weight to your right leg, and drop your whole arm, relax the wrist, the first to move should be your left leg, followed by waist. It might sound contradictory, because right leg stores power, right? But it might be easier to feel it this way. Imagine like rotating your left leg outside, snapping it... You should explode! Push with your right leg, but focus on your left leg and waist, especially left side... Snap the left leg, explode, almost instantly after that your waist should follow, providing you a lot of torque, engage your core hard. Right after waist, your upper body should automatically follow the waist, while also forcing right shoulder infront - that's exactly where arm whip comes. Shoulder should whip your whole arm automatically. Then you finish right in front of you, preferably in front of eyes, brake, tense up your arm at the end only! Throughout the whole movement, your whole arm should be relaxed!

The main problem lays in continuity, you cannot simply imagine all these as separate, it's a chain, every detail explained happens simultaneously right after the other, like a chemical reaction, harmony. You supposed to feel the snap. My best advice is to record yourself. You'll see very evidently if you are stiff. If you do it correctly, the movement should be fluid, yet explosive. If you are having a hard time, then focus more on left side of the body, specifically your waist, it provides the necessary torque, although the power is stored in the right leg, it technically starts from there, but if you focus chain of power from the left leg, while pushing with the right... It might be easier to initiate the snap, as Chinese table tennis philosophy implies - drawing power from the ground! Good luck trying.

I hope this helps! 😁

Just reading your name in here actually helps me visualise the entire thing, fluidity in motion. Nice 😁

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

Just reading your name in here actually helps me visualise the entire thing, fluidity in motion. Nice 😁

and why did you change your name?