Finally grasped the essence of Chinese table tennis biomechanical principle! (Chain reaction of power from the ground)

[blahness]

It is a good start, but as many ppl said here, the challenge is to adapt the stroke against all types of incoming balls (with variations in pace, spin, placement). As Bruce Lee says "boards don't hit back". In TT you are facing real opponents who will respond to your shots and make you uncomfortable.

There are 7 general types of spin in table tennis and looping all of them requires adjustments.

Also you need to know how to move and loop if the ball is to your right, to your left, short, deep, etc...

And looping against a fast ball is very different from looping against a slow ball.

And after the loop if it gets blocked back, are you back in position to do another loop?

So even in shadow practice, it is very important to shadow the recovery too to make it instinctive. The recovery has to be body driven and not arm, same as the stroke itself.

Also another comment is that you are swinging too fast at the ball even for shadow practice. If you watch pros they actually have lower initial speeds when approaching the ball, but have much higher acceleration after that. If you habitually swing too fast then you will miss a lot because the margin of error is too low. It is very important to keep your eyes on the ball and adjust to what is actually coming instead of swinging hard blindly.

 

[Dr Evil]

...doing footwork drills for months and shadow practicing the chain of movement for months can be stitched together at some point to practice both, fast footwork followed by differing shots...

It's hard to "stitch together" things that are so interdependent and variable. Footwork is the first (and last) link in the kinetic chain, and each link sets the conditions (i.e., positions and pre-loads the muscle groups) for the next link. If you try to practice part of the chain in isolation from what comes before and from what follows, you're removing a lot of constraints that apply in the real world. Shadow strokes don't have to satisfy these constraints, so they usually won't. Usually players' real strokes don't resemble their shadow strokes at all, unless the real ones were learned first.

 

[latej]

You're definitely not alone in this opinion, but we'll have to agree to disagree. Adjusting to the ball is fundamental to good technique, and if you remove that constraint than you're more likely to be practicing bad technique than good. I agree that visualization can be extremely helpful -- in The Inner Game of Tennis the author wrote about how just watching video of a professional match before playing often made his students play better -- but that's a separate issue.

I think that one of shadow practise benefits is that it let's you feel something, sort of recognize or discover or clearly identify how it feels or should feel, and then you search for it in real play. Because now you know what you are searching for. You can then recognize in real play, that this shot was not really done as it should have been...

I agree nothing beats real TT training. But sometimes I see the technique is not right, of course you can eventually have high percentage even with sub-optimal technique, but still it's a pitty. And here the people don't see, they don't know what is wrong, there is very low chance they will magically change to better technique, they need to feel it first - and I think shadow practise can help here...

 

[longle]

like in this video, when starting to learn the basics I had to do shadow training a lot to combine the body movements. Even now I still do shadow training at home, but mostly footwork.

So I agree with shadow training, but you have to do it the right way, after you understand the basics.

 

[dingyibvs]

It's hard to "stitch together" things that are so interdependent and variable. Footwork is the first (and last) link in the kinetic chain, and each link sets the conditions (i.e., positions and pre-loads the muscle groups) for the next link. If you try to practice part of the chain in isolation from what comes before and from what follows, you're removing a lot of constraints that apply in the real world. Shadow strokes don't have to satisfy these constraints, so they usually won't. Usually players' real strokes don't resemble their shadow strokes at all, unless the real ones were learned first.

You can absolutely stitch them together. It takes practice, of course, but if it can't then why do coaches, even ones who don't like shadow practice like @Tony's Table Tennis have their students practice footwork by itself? If you just want cardio and lateral agility there are specific training exercises for them. Most coaches when teaching beginners have them just do FH or BH strokes while staying in one place before adding footwork to them.

Also, why can't you incorporate footwork into your shadow practices?

It is a good start, but as many ppl said here, the challenge is to adapt the stroke against all types of incoming balls (with variations in pace, spin, placement). As Bruce Lee says "boards don't hit back". In TT you are facing real opponents who will respond to your shots and make you uncomfortable.

There are 7 general types of spin in table tennis and looping all of them requires adjustments.

Also you need to know how to move and loop if the ball is to your right, to your left, short, deep, etc...

And looping against a fast ball is very different from looping against a slow ball.

And after the loop if it gets blocked back, are you back in position to do another loop?

So even in shadow practice, it is very important to shadow the recovery too to make it instinctive. The recovery has to be body driven and not arm, same as the stroke itself.

Also another comment is that you are swinging too fast at the ball even for shadow practice. If you watch pros they actually have lower initial speeds when approaching the ball, but have much higher acceleration after that. If you habitually swing too fast then you will miss a lot because the margin of error is too low. It is very important to keep your eyes on the ball and adjust to what is actually coming instead of swinging hard blindly.

I think that's just an issue with practicing on your own in general. It's better to get some coaching guidance first. Another issue I noticed is that he's completely relaxing his arm. This causes the racket to drop too low and too close to the body. The arm needs to be a bit abducted away from the body at the end of the backswing, and the muscle involved in doing that is actually the shoulder, mostly the deltoid.

There are a lot of finer details re: technique that's very hard to pick up on video by untrained eyes trying to become trained. Having a coach to give you some pointers can save you a ton of time.

 

[Egon]

Since I don't have the opportunity to train regularly with a partner now, but I want to play, I started playing with a shadow near the mirror. To my surprise, my legs get tired the most from these exercises, and in my opinion, this is what brings results in a real game. My legs became noticeably stronger and after a one-day rest I was able to beat an opponent to whom I most often lost and very rarely won. In the game with him, I felt a little like Zhang Jike with his legs - springs . So I can safely recommend playing with a shadow to all experienced amateurs, it works well.

 

[TTAntiPlayer]

every body use weight transfers today.
everything is hybrid today if I can call it such.

I think there is too much emphasize on "chinese technique" in this thread, but all this is theory
it means nothing if you can't put it in action
and even if you put it in action, it doesn't make you the best - just like the other 90% of in the Chinese national team, who are taught with such theory since young.
Why I say that? because they can't beat the strong non Chinese (consistently - some have very bad track records)

The reason why China is so strong is also based on their core numbers. The bests of the 30 provinces goes into the national team.
each province have hundreds to thousands of players to choose from for its 20-30 players.

so you are bound to have the elite when you have such numbers.
If they played like Europeans, they will still win.

Now today, everyone does weight transfer, from legs and waist,

so OP, i'm sorry to hijack your thread, but maybe 20 years ago, what you say is correct.

The term "weight transfer" is general, but it's incorrect. The movement is more of kinetic chain. Although professionals from every continent use the body, Chinese emphasize it a lot more, pushing with their legs and emphasizing waist, more lower body, whereas European style is more direct, emphasizing upper body, arm. I just looked it up and it seems the term is rooted in some parts of culture, like martial arts

There's also, without a doubt, Chinese rubber influence... The use of tacky rubbers (like DHS Hurricane 3) requires more effort in engaging the entire body to generate power, engaging the hard sponge, whereas tensor rubbers (like Tenergy) allow more relaxed, wrist-heavy strokes

I was just curious about why people use this term. When I was a kid, almost 40 years ago, our coach taught us the same thing, using the whole body to generate power in shots. He definitely wasn’t from China, nor did he have YouTube back then to learn about "Power from the ground", we only had training videos from the Swedish national team.
There are some differences between the Eur/Jap and Chinese table tennis schools, but you can't compete at the highest level without using your full body for powerful shots.
This technique has been used worldwide for a long time, long before someone started promoting the term on YouTube as if it were something unique to Chinese players. Maybe it did originate in China (which is why I asked if anyone knows), but it’s definitely nothing new.
I do agree that quality comes from the large number of players, but also from table tennis being a national sport in China with significant financial investment.
Imagine if the EU decided to make table tennis the number one sport and redirect all football money into it and promote in every basic school. In 10-15 years European players would be at least the same level as Chinese players, especially since the gap is already getting smaller.

P.S. This is not a post against the Chinese Table Tennis Association, just a way to give more credit to other national coaches and players

 

[Egon]

Everyone goes their own way and if @StreamOfWater enjoys this path, then that's great and I'm happy for him!

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

I was just curious about why people use this term. When I was a kid, almost 40 years ago, our coach taught us the same thing, using the whole body to generate power in shots. He definitely wasn’t from China, nor did he have YouTube back then to learn about "Power from the ground", we only had training videos from the Swedish national team.
There are some differences between the Eur/Jap and Chinese table tennis schools, but you can't compete at the highest level without using your full body for powerful shots.
This technique has been used worldwide for a long time, long before someone started promoting the term on YouTube as if it were something unique to Chinese players. Maybe it did originate in China (which is why I asked if anyone knows), but it’s definitely nothing new.
I do agree that quality comes from the large number of players, but also from table tennis being a national sport in China with significant financial investment.
Imagine if the EU decided to make table tennis the number one sport and redirect all football money into it and promote in every basic school. In 10-15 years European players would be at least the same level as Chinese players, especially since the gap is already getting smaller.

P.S. This is not a post against the Chinese Table Tennis Association, just a way to give more credit to other national coaches and players

yep, it is confusing and probably a lot of misunderstanding some where.

you do have Chinese techniques in terms of how to hit the ball.
you also have footwork habits, like Chinese likes cross over steps more than the Europeans - in fact, I know many national junior players from different countries, can't do it to save their lives.
but in terms of using the whole body, both sides uses it.

maybe with the smaller size Asian, they require to use more of it, and maybe that is how it started, but today, everything is mixed - including Chinese players are no longer "small sized".

never the less, no matter what theory, it is only theory. it means zero if you can't implement it.
and over the years, as I mentioned 2 posts earlier, there is no correct textbook shot.
shadow drill and hitting the ball is very different and I am sure OP will have a new understanding of the sport when he is hitting the ball, and then when he is hitting 20 to 30 of them non stop, these are all various stages of understanding. And from there, the understanding of feeling the ball, of using the incoming ball's spin and power and to give it back with your own, or without your own. Fascinating!

 

[Conehead]

I think "shadow training" is a good thing but instead of practising with your hand/fist in front of the mirror, just take a real bat. It will positively increase the effect.

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

I think "shadow training" is a good thing but instead of practising with your hand/fist in front of the mirror, just take a real bat. It will positively increase the effect.

correct, always use a racket
and wear your playing shoes.

it is more of a footwork/movement exercise than hitting exercise
you could get a good body workout, but you will never get a feeling workout.

 

[NetProphet]

It's hard to "stitch together" things that are so interdependent and variable.

Do Shadow practice for a minute. Do a footwork drill for a minute. Now do footwork followed by a shadow stroke.

Footwork is the first (and last) link in the kinetic chain, and each link sets the conditions (i.e., positions and pre-loads the muscle groups) for the next link.

This is a nice phrase to read and it may be completely correct but how does shadow practice negate any of this?

If you try to practice part of the chain in isolation from what comes before and from what follows, you're removing a lot of constraints that apply in the real world.

Are you saying that it's useless because it doesn't mimic real match scenarios?
I think it prepares you physically and mentally which is what we're trying to do

Your statement about people's shadow strokes not resembling their real strokes is possibly the most telling.
I reckon that's because their learned poor technique kicks in during matches and they have not properly muscle memoried their movements or just cannot move quickly enough between shots yet to get in correct position, so they play a substandard, suboptimal shot. Ma Longs shadow and actual play would be identical for example because of his anticipation, speed and footwork.
Practice practice practice of footwork can really improve the speed at which you move around the table and therfore give you more chances to be in position to execute. But getting into position and still performing a stroke with poor technique is what we're trying to correct here (my understanding as I read much of the thread anyway).

As you said yourself, most coaches recommend these things and you're in the minority and fair enough, if they don't work for you then they don't work for you.

But can I ask then, what is your approach when you need to correct something?
Do you try to play matches with conscious thought involved in every shot?
I personally cannot do that with any success...

 

[NetProphet]

correct, always use a racket
and wear your playing shoes.

it is more of a footwork/movement exercise than hitting exercise
you could get a good body workout, but you will never get a feeling workout.

Feel for what? Do you mean the ball?
I find doing these things with a robot so you can perform a shot at the end is also useful.
I know that opens up another discussion about robots actually being beneficial or not and that needs it's own thread but having the feeling of hitting the ball at the end of these movements seems to be useful for me at least...

 

[StreamOfWater]

yep, it is confusing and probably a lot of misunderstanding some where.

you do have Chinese techniques in terms of how to hit the ball.
you also have footwork habits, like Chinese likes cross over steps more than the Europeans - in fact, I know many national junior players from different countries, can't do it to save their lives.
but in terms of using the whole body, both sides uses it.

maybe with the smaller size Asian, they require to use more of it, and maybe that is how it started, but today, everything is mixed - including Chinese players are no longer "small sized".

never the less, no matter what theory, it is only theory. it means zero if you can't implement it.
and over the years, as I mentioned 2 posts earlier, there is no correct textbook shot.
shadow drill and hitting the ball is very different and I am sure OP will have a new understanding of the sport when he is hitting the ball, and then when he is hitting 20 to 30 of them non stop, these are all various stages of understanding. And from there, the understanding of feeling the ball, of using the incoming ball's spin and power and to give it back with your own, or without your own. Fascinating!

Well, I always used shadow exercises as a way to feel or understand a certain concept in table tennis, it also helped me devise certain strategies... I can effectively implement them with some multiball training. If it's fairly simple, then couple normal training sessions. By doing my "homework", researching, understanding, feeling and executing, in merely 2 years of playing, I have gone to beating players with 3-4 times of my experience, representing my university, recently I got invited to play and represent in 2025 SELL student games, Finland 😁

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

Feel for what? Do you mean the ball?
I find doing these things with a robot so you can perform a shot at the end is also useful.
I know that opens up another discussion about robots actually being beneficial or not and that needs it's own thread but having the feeling of hitting the ball at the end of these movements seems to be useful for me at least...

yes feeling the entire contact on your hand

this is no difference to a football kicking shadow movement vs real kicking.

 

[NetProphet]

I was just curious about why people use this term. When I was a kid, almost 40 years ago, our coach taught us the same thing, using the whole body to generate power in shots. He definitely wasn’t from China, nor did he have YouTube back then to learn about "Power from the ground", we only had training videos from the Swedish national team.

Swedish national team learned a.lot of what they did back then from visiting Chinese training camps. In fact Waldner and Co spent time there as kids and learned a lot! He didn't say specifically about this subject but he definitely referenced it being eye opening about how much dedication and practice was needed to have a chance of making it!
A decade later team Sweden beats team China 😊
Anyway, a lot of Chinese things were imported this way

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

Well, I always used shadow exercises as a way to feel or understand a certain concept in table tennis, it also helped me devise certain strategies... I can effectively implement them with some multiball training. If it's fairly simple, then couple normal training sessions. By doing my "homework", researching, understanding, feeling and executing, in merely 2 years of playing, I have gone to beating players with 3-4 times of my experience, represent my university, recently I got invited to play and represent in 2025 SELL student games, Finland 😁

good for you, if it works, great.
For me, we still old school. We can't have majority theory and minority practical, it is the other way around

but then again, we are in the semi pro to pro setup and not just nurturing national kids, but international players. So our way of doing things, isn't for all.

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

Feel for what? Do you mean the ball?
I find doing these things with a robot so you can perform a shot at the end is also useful.
I know that opens up another discussion about robots actually being beneficial or not and that needs it's own thread but having the feeling of hitting the ball at the end of these movements seems to be useful for me at least...

yes feeling the entire contact.

this is no difference to a football kicking shadow movement vs real kicking - that control is what separates pros to amateurs.
and I can even say air boxing to real boxing - you don't get fractures from air boxing - ask Alexis 🙈

 

[StreamOfWater]

Everyone's talking about the adaptability, about implemention in real matches... Personally, that's one of the easier parts for me, it's really just a matter of smart training and some time overall. Probably an unpopular opinion, but I believe people overcomplicate table tennis, similar to many other aspects of life... It's indeed a complex and technical sport, however, there's no need to overcomplicate it more than it is... I probably sound ballsy or cocky saying this, but in the eyes of an amateur who has been improving quickly, it just seems like it, especially when I read all these forums and comments...

 

[NetProphet]

yes feeling the entire contact.

this is no difference to a football kicking shadow movement vs real kicking - that control is what separates pros to amateurs.
and I can even say air boxing to real boxing - you don't get fractures from air boxing - ask Alexis 🙈

You cannot shadow kick for football though, you need the impact on the ball so there's only ball practice there.