Finally grasped the essence of table tennis biomechanical principle Chinese style! (Chain reaction of power from the ground) (UPDATED)

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How and why is it unsustainable/unrealistic? May you please elaborate? Thank you in advance. I indeed got spoon-fed that shot, however, isn't that how one is supposed to start to engrave habits and get a feeling for it? Already managed to execute a few times during a game, so I do not see how this is unrealistic. I am still developing it, so I will send another update when I'll make some more progress - actions speak louder than words after all
In pretty much every way - the upper body rotation is way overdone and not in the right direction - you should be rotating mostly forwards rather than mostly upwards as you are in that video, same for the hips and left leg rotation, the arm speed is almost certainly not the speed you will be playing in a real situation.

However, analyzing a shadow stroke is pretty pointless, so as mentioned above I will wait until you post a video of you hitting a ball 10 or 20+ times before fully coming to a judgment.
 
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In pretty much every way - the upper body rotation is way overdone and not in the right direction - you should be rotating mostly forwards rather than mostly upwards as you are in that video, same for the hips and left leg rotation, the arm speed is almost certainly not the speed you will be playing in a real situation.

However, analyzing a shadow stroke is pretty pointless, so as mentioned above I will wait until you post a video of you hitting a ball 10 or 20+ times before fully coming to a judgment.
Ideally, you need 50 tops in a row and more. Better 100. Because 20-30 can be played even with tense muscles. And when fatigue rolls in, it becomes impossible to play further with such a technique. With a larger number, the body itself begins to look for a more economical mode of operation with the best efficiency for your body and the muscles available. Regarding whether this makes sense or not, I think it makes sense. The guy posted a video, received a lot of useful comments and opinions. I think he knows what he's doing.
 
In pretty much every way - the upper body rotation is way overdone and not in the right direction - you should be rotating mostly forwards rather than mostly upwards as you are in that video, same for the hips and left leg rotation, the arm speed is almost certainly not the speed you will be playing in a real situation.

However, analyzing a shadow stroke is pretty pointless, so as mentioned above I will wait until you post a video of you hitting a ball 10 or 20+ times before fully coming to a judgment.
Interesting take — though it feels like you're disregarding a lot of nuance here. Perhaps you could share a clip of yourself performing a realistic and sustainable forehand loop 10–20 times in a row? That might help me visualise as well as understand your point of view better
 
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Ideally, you need 50 tops in a row and more. Better 100. Because 20-30 can be played even with tense muscles. And when fatigue rolls in, it becomes impossible to play further with such a technique. With a larger number, the body itself begins to look for a more economical mode of operation with the best efficiency for your body and the muscles available. Regarding whether this makes sense or not, I think it makes sense. The guy posted a video, received a lot of useful comments and opinions. I think he knows what he's doing.
are you saying you need to be able to hit 50 strokes in a row at full power? I can see it from a consistency and a stamina point of view..... but i'm just a hobby player. i feel like if you can hit 80% power for a minute straight in a drill and make 70-80% of your shots, thats pretty darn consistent and you should be stable enough at that point to play a 5-9 ball rally in a match.

for reference, i'm around 1700 USATT and do this pretty regularly on my robot and it has translated into me having longer stable rallies in my match play.

On the flip side, i've been able to backhand loop against backspin 20+ times in a row when the ball is fed to me in a regular spot with regular spin (from the robot) but in match play, im only making about 25% of my backhand loops against backspin lol. its definitely a work in progress.

ANYWAYS- OP- keep at it. but yes, please show us a video of you getting fed multi ball or your opponent blocking back to you so we can see how your stroke looks when you do it 5, 10, 15 or 20 times in a row. thats when you can see your technique break down and where it needs improvement.
 
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Interesting take — though it feels like you're disregarding a lot of nuance here. Perhaps you could share a clip of yourself performing a realistic and sustainable forehand loop 10–20 times in a row? That might help me visualise as well as understand your point of view better
What nuance am I disregarding? There are plenty of videos online of people doing proper stable forehand drives and they are very different from what you're doing with your body in the shadow stroke video, if this is your way to question my credentials you are free to disregard my opinion but I can tell you I was professionally trained and have learned from many great coaches and high level players from different continents, and am far higher level than you and most, if not everyone, that actively posts on this forum. I also coach developing players.

Again, feel free to disregard if you want - everyone is responsible for their own development and choosing to take or ignore advice is part of the journey. But you seem to be very confident in your internet research and your understanding of the game based off that despite still being a beginner, I would caution against thinking that you have figured it all out.
 
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What nuance am I disregarding? There are plenty of videos online of people doing proper stable forehand drives and they are very different from what you're doing with your body in the shadow stroke video, if this is your way to question my credentials you are free to disregard my opinion but I can tell you I was professionally trained and have learned from many great coaches and high level players from different continents, and am far higher level than you and most, if not everyone, that actively posts on this forum. I also coach developing players.

Again, feel free to disregard if you want - everyone is responsible for their own development and choosing to take or ignore advice is part of the journey. But you seem to be very confident in your internet research and your understanding of the game based off that despite still being a beginner, I would caution against thinking that you have figured it all out.
I appreciate your perspective and background. My request wasn’t about questioning your credentials — I simply believe that showing is often more effective than telling, especially in technical discussions, not to mention table tennis. Since you seem quite experienced, it’d actually be valuable for others (myself included) to see what you consider a sustainable as well as realistic forehand loop in action.

No hard feelings — I’m here to learn, improve, and engage constructively.
 
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I appreciate your perspective and background. My request wasn’t about questioning your credentials — I simply believe that showing is often more effective than telling, especially in technical discussions, not to mention table tennis. Since you seem quite experienced, it’d actually be valuable for others (myself included) to see what you consider a sustainable as well as realistic forehand loop in action.

No hard feelings — I’m here to learn, improve, and engage constructively.
Well there are plenty of videos on the internet that are easy to find of people doing proper forehands but I don't think trying to learn from imitating a video of someone else is very useful either. You need to feel things out for yourself but to guide yourself in the right direction you need to walk before you try to run. You are trying to run before you walk. Right now, in my experience, you don't need to worry about pushing off the ground powerfully, just be stable on the ground but don't worry about exploding tremendously through your legs, hips, upper body, arm, whatever. You don't need to be swinging so violently and widely until you have demonstrated that you can consistently get forehand counters or light topspins on the table, which you haven't yet. That is how you develop feeling and a repeatable loop from which you can then add power later on.

I'm still happy to discuss whatever nuance you think I am disregarding.
 
Well there are plenty of videos on the internet that are easy to find of people doing proper forehands but I don't think trying to learn from imitating a video of someone else is very useful either. You need to feel things out for yourself but to guide yourself in the right direction you need to walk before you try to run. You are trying to run before you walk. Right now, in my experience, you don't need to worry about pushing off the ground powerfully, just be stable on the ground but don't worry about exploding tremendously through your legs, hips, upper body, arm, whatever. You don't need to be swinging so violently and widely until you have demonstrated that you can consistently get forehand counters or light topspins on the table, which you haven't yet. That is how you develop feeling and a repeatable loop from which you can then add power later on.

I'm still happy to discuss whatever nuance you think I am disregarding.
I appreciate the thoughtful reply. I see where you’re coming from — the traditional progression of "build stability first, then layer on power and explosiveness" makes sense in many cases. I just don’t fully agree that developing dynamic movement awareness early is the same as trying to "run before walking."

What I’m doing isn’t violent for the sake of it — it’s exploratory. I want to engrain the right kinetic chain and body mechanics from the start, even if consistency isn’t perfect yet. That includes learning to use the legs, hips, and core instead of just arm-swinging balls onto the table.

Yes, I’m still working on consistency. But I believe movement feeling and mechanical understanding can develop alongside consistency, not only after it. Especially as a penhold player where timing and rhythm are key.

I respect your experience, and I’m genuinely open to your thoughts — not as a challenge, but to understand better. I just don’t believe I’m skipping steps, I think I’m building them in a different order
 
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I appreciate the thoughtful reply. I see where you’re coming from — the traditional progression of ‘build stability first, then layer on power and explosiveness’ makes sense in many cases. I just don’t fully agree that developing dynamic movement awareness early is the same as trying to ‘run before walking.’

What I’m doing isn’t violent for the sake of it — it’s exploratory. I want to engrain the right kinetic chain and body mechanics from the start, even if consistency isn’t perfect yet. That includes learning to use the legs, hips, and core instead of just arm-swinging balls onto the table.

Yes, I’m still working on consistency. But I believe movement feeling and mechanical understanding can develop alongside consistency, not only after it. Especially as a penhold player where timing and rhythm are key.

I respect your experience, and I’m genuinely open to your thoughts — not as a challenge, but to understand better. I just don’t believe I’m skipping steps, I think I’m building them in a different order
I didn't say to just "arm swing" - but just to temper down the leg/hip/core movement and re-direct it forwards instead of so much upwards. You are free to disagree as much as you want, I won't be interested in or useful towards contributing further until I see video of you consistently putting forehand topspins on the table. Best of luck.
 
are you saying you need to be able to hit 50 strokes in a row at full power? I can see it from a consistency and a stamina point of view..... but i'm just a hobby player. i feel like if you can hit 80% power for a minute straight in a drill and make 70-80% of your shots, thats pretty darn consistent and you should be stable enough at that point to play a 5-9 ball rally in a match.

for reference, i'm around 1700 USATT and do this pretty regularly on my robot and it has translated into me having longer stable rallies in my match play.

On the flip side, i've been able to backhand loop against backspin 20+ times in a row when the ball is fed to me in a regular spot with regular spin (from the robot) but in match play, im only making about 25% of my backhand loops against backspin lol. its definitely a work in progress.

ANYWAYS- OP- keep at it. but yes, please show us a video of you getting fed multi ball or your opponent blocking back to you so we can see how your stroke looks when you do it 5, 10, 15 or 20 times in a row. thats when you can see your technique break down and where it needs improvement.
Thank you for your comment. I will post more in the future, I'll keep the thread updated, I just need some time for everything to settle and engrave the technique into my body
 
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Thank you for your comment. I will post more in the future, I'll keep the thread updated, I just need some time for everything to settle and engrave the technique into my body
for sure man! and be willing to adjust as needed. I have my "proper" stroke but in a match, sometimes i'm bent backwards still having to do a forehand. or i'm out of position in another way. or its more of a counter. There's a lot of nuance and different techniques within a technique. For me, the main thing is to always activate as much of the kinetic chain as possible- and that starts from the feet, to the legs, to the hips, to the core, to the arm, to the elbow, to the wrist, to the fingers. I dont care what it "looks" like, i care more about what it feels like....i want it to be smooth like butter. cheers.
 
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I didn't say to just "arm swing" - but just to temper down the leg/hip/core movement and re-direct it forwards instead of so much upwards. You are free to disagree as much as you want, I won't be interested in or useful towards contributing further until I see video of you consistently putting forehand topspins on the table. Best of luck.
That’s fair. Thank you. I’ll post an update when I’ve got the technique more "tamed" and a more consistent set going. Appreciate the engagement up to now
 
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Interesting take — though it feels like you're disregarding a lot of nuance here. Perhaps you could share a clip of yourself performing a realistic and sustainable forehand loop 10–20 times in a row? That might help me visualise as well as understand your point of view better

hi I think this can help answer your question - my FH strokes sometimes ago, it was not optimized fully but can demonstrate the "forward motion" he mentioned

 
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hi I think this can help answer your question - my FH strokes sometimes ago, it was not optimized fully but can demonstrate the "forward motion" he mentioned

16 in a row!! woohoo. might take OP a while before he gets to that level of consistency. then he will be smashing it up in match play :D
 
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are you saying you need to be able to hit 50 strokes in a row at full power? I can see it from a consistency and a stamina point of view..... but i'm just a hobby player. i feel like if you can hit 80% power for a minute straight in a drill and make 70-80% of your shots, thats pretty darn consistent and you should be stable enough at that point to play a 5-9 ball rally in a match.

for reference, i'm around 1700 USATT and do this pretty regularly on my robot and it has translated into me having longer stable rallies in my match play.

On the flip side, i've been able to backhand loop against backspin 20+ times in a row when the ball is fed to me in a regular spot with regular spin (from the robot) but in match play, im only making about 25% of my backhand loops against backspin lol. its definitely a work in progress.

ANYWAYS- OP- keep at it. but yes, please show us a video of you getting fed multi ball or your opponent blocking back to you so we can see how your stroke looks when you do it 5, 10, 15 or 20 times in a row. thats when you can see your technique break down and where it needs improvement.
Maybe I was misunderstood, or I expressed myself incorrectly - sorry for my Google translator). I meant that for the author of the video it would be useful to perform a large number of topspins for stability.
 
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Maybe I was misunderstood, or I expressed myself incorrectly - sorry for my Google translator). I meant that for the author of the video it would be useful to perform a large number of topspins for stability.
YES, and if possible side to side to see how you recover when making multiple fhs from 2 or 3 positions
 
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Please excuse me... Offtopic...
But I can't understand...Why is Hashimoto Gonoka not announced anywhere in June?
 
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Please excuse me... Offtopic...
But I can't understand...Why is Hashimoto Gonoka not announced anywhere in June?
She is active in her league (bottom, right in the image below):

aBxSbSdWJ-7kRvOO_%E5%89%8D%E6%9C%9F%E6%97%A5%E6%9C%AC%E5%8D%93%E7%90%83%E3%83%AA%E3%83%BC%E3%82%B0%E5%91%8A%E7%9F%A5.jpg
 
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What about the VTT tournaments?
Sato, for example, in Europe in June - Pristina, Ljubljana, Zagreb...
 
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