First setup for basement player

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that looks quite good for a basement player. I especially like your backhand. The forehand looks odd because you seem to fold your wrist inwards in between hitting zone. You can use the wrist to increase spin, but you would move it differently. like this it looks like you slap the ball instead of looping through the ball.
 
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Hello @Pe-ter

To begin with It's really good for no coaching, If you don't mind I have couple feedbacks,

Backhand:
Actually it's pretty well for no coaching, your elbow very stable (nice), keeping your body in front all the time, swing mostly to forward, good relax after finish.

However, biggest issue is your wrist action, you are changing angle too much, and unnecessary.
The angle in first frame is just great, then you start opening while hitting, then closing again. (eventually ball flys out because you actually hit from bottom of the ball)

1 - If you would keep angle same as beginning all the time, it would be much better shot. Wrist should be straight at the end of your shot.

2- second point is timing is bit late not much but just a little. (not in these frames particularly)

3- thirdly, you don't need that finishing move at the end, you should try to finish swing where you are aiming, then relax.
you are locking your elbow, it will affect your recovery and give tension.

4- a small point also, your right foot seems behing the left, ideally it should not be if you are not very good. Please try to make parallel to the table.

Hence, 1st frame is good, in 2nd angle should be closed (when you actually hit), a little after 3rd should be finish, you don't need to follow through like 4 for better consistency.

even if you fix the angle, you would see big improvement.

Screenshot-2024-11-21-at-144336.jpg



Forehand:

1- your body actually your legs are too sideways to table, you only need that angle when you hit from wide BH to wide BH with FH shot. Try to face more to table with legs, use you upper body to turn.

2- Timing is more late in FH, not major if you fix your positioning.

3- The biggest issue is your elbow, on contrary to BH, your elbow curls inward while your swing, although it's open in follow through. Try to keep elbow's pointing angle same as first frame, all the time. (not otherwise like lifting elbow, which some ppl do). You almost spend all your power by moving your elbow, not the racket.

4- Again there is an angle issue, you started with good angle then you started opening, then closed at follow through but ball is already left your paddle. That results ball flys out, ball is coming with spin and high, you need to touch from around 2o clock position. (middle-to-above) And also you can maintain the angle at first frame.

5- your upper body is moved, that is good, but because your legs, it didn't gave full power to ball, it's stopping just before hitting momentarily, then continues at follow through.
As practice you can try to hit flat drive shots without using your arm at all, think your whole arm is stable, only you are hitting with your upper body. When you perfected that, ball will be faster, accurate and you will be stable in following shots.

6- Of course as like BH, you need to give your weight in front in FH too, actually not that bad at first frame but it slightly lifts while you are swinging.

7- same as BH, finish the swing where you are aiming

8- your racket angle (horizontally) is starts for parallel (FH(mid) to BH) ends up (FH to FH), so your racket should face where you aiming as well. if you want to aim to left, you should take from bit right side, vice-versa.

Unfortunately I can't see your feet clearly, but classic rule is that:
Keep ball in front of your right foot when hitting FH to FH,
if you want to hit middle to BH etc, then ball (contact point which is peak point) should be just front-right of your right foot at around your forearm-distance.

Screenshot-2024-11-21-at-144625 (2).jpg


And overall, bending knees, keeping body lower would be better for stability, not that much at beginning like squatting.

Lastly you are jumping a bit much while moving sideways, you can think there is a low ceiling to keeping center of weight as low.

Anyway, it's good progress IMO, hope these find you well.
 
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Hello @Pe-ter

To begin with It's really good for no coaching, If you don't mind I have couple feedbacks,

Backhand:
Actually it's pretty well for no coaching, your elbow very stable (nice), keeping your body in front all the time, swing mostly to forward, good relax after finish.

However, biggest issue is your wrist action, you are changing angle too much, and unnecessary.
The angle in first frame is just great, then you start opening while hitting, then closing again. (eventually ball flys out because you actually hit from bottom of the ball)

1 - If you would keep angle same as beginning all the time, it would be much better shot. Wrist should be straight at the end of your shot.

2- second point is timing is bit late not much but just a little. (not in these frames particularly)

3- thirdly, you don't need that finishing move at the end, you should try to finish swing where you are aiming, then relax.
you are locking your elbow, it will affect your recovery and give tension.

4- a small point also, your right foot seems behing the left, ideally it should not be if you are not very good. Please try to make parallel to the table.

Hence, 1st frame is good, in 2nd angle should be closed (when you actually hit), a little after 3rd should be finish, you don't need to follow through like 4 for better consistency.

even if you fix the angle, you would see big improvement.

View attachment 33274


Forehand:

1- your body actually your legs are too sideways to table, you only need that angle when you hit from wide BH to wide BH with FH shot. Try to face more to table with legs, use you upper body to turn.

2- Timing is more late in FH, not major if you fix your positioning.

3- The biggest issue is your elbow, on contrary to BH, your elbow curls inward while your swing, although it's open in follow through. Try to keep elbow's pointing angle same as first frame, all the time. (not otherwise like lifting elbow, which some ppl do). You almost spend all your power by moving your elbow, not the racket.

4- Again there is an angle issue, you started with good angle then you started opening, then closed at follow through but ball is already left your paddle. That results ball flys out, ball is coming with spin and high, you need to touch from around 2o clock position. (middle-to-above) And also you can maintain the angle at first frame.

5- your upper body is moved, that is good, but because your legs, it didn't gave full power to ball, it's stopping just before hitting momentarily, then continues at follow through.
As practice you can try to hit flat drive shots without using your arm at all, think your whole arm is stable, only you are hitting with your upper body. When you perfected that, ball will be faster, accurate and you will be stable in following shots.

6- Of course as like BH, you need to give your weight in front in FH too, actually not that bad at first frame but it slightly lifts while you are swinging.

7- same as BH, finish the swing where you are aiming

8- your racket angle (horizontally) is starts for parallel (FH(mid) to BH) ends up (FH to FH), so your racket should face where you aiming as well. if you want to aim to left, you should take from bit right side, vice-versa.

Unfortunately I can't see your feet clearly, but classic rule is that:
Keep ball in front of your right foot when hitting FH to FH,
if you want to hit middle to BH etc, then ball (contact point which is peak point) should be just front-right of your right foot at around your forearm-distance.

View attachment 33276

And overall, bending knees, keeping body lower would be better for stability, not that much at beginning like squatting.

Lastly you are jumping a bit much while moving sideways, you can think there is a low ceiling to keeping center of weight as low.

Anyway, it's good progress IMO, hope these find you well.
Hi @Aizen,

Thank you very much for taking your time and responding, much appreciated.

After watching the recording I saw something similar with my FH as you mentioned. If I'm not mistaken, my FH drive is more like a forward motion. Instead it should be more like an upward move and twist in the hips.

At least that's what I've tried and it was really different. Finally I was able to get much more speed and consistency out of my strokes. Still need to work on that though, as well as on the timing.

But thank you once again for your feedback, much appreciated.

🍻
 
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Hi @Aizen,

Thank you very much for taking your time and responding, much appreciated.

After watching the recording I saw something similar with my FH as you mentioned. If I'm not mistaken, my FH drive is more like a forward motion. Instead it should be more like an upward move and twist in the hips.

At least that's what I've tried and it was really different. Finally I was able to get much more speed and consistency out of my strokes. Still need to work on that though, as well as on the timing.

But thank you once again for your feedback, much appreciated.

🍻
You are welcome, glad to hear.

No, there is a misunderstanding, forward is good for drive, just the source of force is mainly from body twist, not elbow or shoulder. You don’t need “up motion” much for this kind of ball. Keep your racket high, press it to forward with body swing.

Looping needs brushing but it’s also mostly to forward Unless lifting a backspin ball.
 
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Update:
I've ordered a Hadraw 5 blade with a set of Tibhar MX-P's on max for both sides. As BTY has some delay in delivery, I still have some time to change the configuration (e.g. order the blade only and get the rubbers later).
I have played the MX-P's and they are fine rubbers. With the Hadraw 5 however, I'm afraid it is going to be too fast for my capabilities and too fast for the type of TT that is being played at my level. You know all the pushers who won't loop a backspin ball, just push back. Then when I'm trying to loop, it goes off the table.

During yesterday's practice, a friend gave me a XIOM Vega Europe for a set to try it out as it is softer than my Rakza 7. Now I'm thinking about getting something way softer than MX-P's. If a combination of softer, spinier rubber with a stiffer and quicker blade could deliver a combo that got a lot of spin, decent control and above average speed.
In my mind, it does not make sense to get a setup with medium hard to hard rubbers if the majority of my opponents are pushers, anti players and players relying on spin rather than fast drives and rallies.

How would the T05fx/DNA Platinum S be compared with MX-P's? Is the XIOM Vega Europe considered a slow rubber? Looking for some rubber recommendations for the Hadraw 5 blade, softer ones with still some decent speed.

With so many different options it's hard to choose.
 
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Hi lads,

Just wanted to say hi and have some opinion on my very first non-premade bat.
At 38 years of age, a career as a pro is long gone (I'm about 30 years late), as a basement/recreational player (have a table at home in the basement) who never played any pro nor semi-pro league.
As my son turned 7 we had some short funny sessions in the basement and he kinda likes TT. I've signed him for a team with a good coach and I'm fully supporting him in becoming a better player. But...at the same time, my passion for this sport was awaken too and I'd like to start at some low local league and have some fun as well.
Never had any "custom" made racket, just those pre-made where the majority of them can't be taken serious when joining a team.
Did some research, google, forums, reviews...The available options is a mile long list, many different manufacturers..to be honest, as a noob I was lost.
Long story short, in a hurry I did a mistake (at least I think of it as a mistake) in ordering a Yasaka Sweden Extra bat with the Rakza 7 2.0 on both sides. I kinda regret not choosing the Rakza 7 Soft for one side, so I could compare them and experience the difference. I think it could also help in choosing the next rubber set once this will worn out.

The very first balls with the racket went to the next Zip code area. Seriously, I thought I just wasted 100+ EUR on a racket that I'll never be able to use, as the bounces were anything near of what I ever experienced and was used to. Is the difference really so big in pre-made vs glued rackets? Is the reason of the bouncy racket that the Rakza 7 is considered a "hard" rubber, or is it due to the Yasaka Sweden Extra? I'm trying to understand why the racket behaves like that, or if it is normal and it's just my expectations that is out of the norm.

Later on I'd like to switch to DNA Platinum rubbers and Stiga Infinity VPS V or something similar.

Any advice is appreciated.
Cheers guys,
Yasaka Sweden extra is an excellent choice with very high control. The rubbers you chose are indeed too much for a basement player, but if you're getting good coaching often eventually they will prove useful. Switching to DNA would make things worse. Rakza 7 soft would not have given more control because it seems to be a technical issue. As for rubber recommendations: Xiom Musa would be a great choice for players building technique, also the ultra cheap but surprisingly good Yinhe Mercury 2. If after coaching you're developing good technqiue already then HK 1997 Gold FH and AK47 Red BH are really good. Beginners at my club normally go with Xiom Musa + Mercury 2 (or Loki Rxton 1) and then upgrade to HK1997 Gold + AK47 Red on Yasaka Sweden extra or Avalox P500
 
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Update:
I've ordered a Hadraw 5 blade with a set of Tibhar MX-P's on max for both sides. As BTY has some delay in delivery, I still have some time to change the configuration (e.g. order the blade only and get the rubbers later).
I have played the MX-P's and they are fine rubbers. With the Hadraw 5 however, I'm afraid it is going to be too fast for my capabilities and too fast for the type of TT that is being played at my level. You know all the pushers who won't loop a backspin ball, just push back. Then when I'm trying to loop, it goes off the table.

During yesterday's practice, a friend gave me a XIOM Vega Europe for a set to try it out as it is softer than my Rakza 7. Now I'm thinking about getting something way softer than MX-P's. If a combination of softer, spinier rubber with a stiffer and quicker blade could deliver a combo that got a lot of spin, decent control and above average speed.
In my mind, it does not make sense to get a setup with medium hard to hard rubbers if the majority of my opponents are pushers, anti players and players relying on spin rather than fast drives and rallies.

How would the T05fx/DNA Platinum S be compared with MX-P's? Is the XIOM Vega Europe considered a slow rubber? Looking for some rubber recommendations for the Hadraw 5 blade, softer ones with still some decent speed.

With so many different options it's hard to choose.
MX-P is much less controllable than Rakza 7 - watching your video HK1997 + AK 47 should be just about right. The rubbers you're looking at will only hurt you in unpredictable match play
 
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Update:
I've ordered a Hadraw 5 blade with a set of Tibhar MX-P's on max for both sides. As BTY has some delay in delivery, I still have some time to change the configuration (e.g. order the blade only and get the rubbers later).
I have played the MX-P's and they are fine rubbers. With the Hadraw 5 however, I'm afraid it is going to be too fast for my capabilities and too fast for the type of TT that is being played at my level. You know all the pushers who won't loop a backspin ball, just push back. Then when I'm trying to loop, it goes off the table.

During yesterday's practice, a friend gave me a XIOM Vega Europe for a set to try it out as it is softer than my Rakza 7. Now I'm thinking about getting something way softer than MX-P's. If a combination of softer, spinier rubber with a stiffer and quicker blade could deliver a combo that got a lot of spin, decent control and above average speed.
In my mind, it does not make sense to get a setup with medium hard to hard rubbers if the majority of my opponents are pushers, anti players and players relying on spin rather than fast drives and rallies.

How would the T05fx/DNA Platinum S be compared with MX-P's? Is the XIOM Vega Europe considered a slow rubber? Looking for some rubber recommendations for the Hadraw 5 blade, softer ones with still some decent speed.

With so many different options it's hard to choose.
T05FX stay away, they are a nightmare in the short game. It is the worst choice for someone learning to push. With the Hadraw 5 I would recommend good old Yasaka Mark V. Don’t listen to anyone saying it’s old fashioned bla bla bla. They are great slow and unreactive with plenty of spin. Then play with this for a year. The rubbers will last you believe me. Then think of something faster.

If you want something cheaper you have neottec katana and a bunch of Chinese rubbers but none of them as good quality…

Cheers
L-zr
 
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T05FX stay away, they are a nightmare in the short game. It is the worst choice for someone learning to push. With the Hadraw 5 I would recommend good old Yasaka Mark V. Don’t listen to anyone saying it’s old fashioned bla bla bla. They are great slow and unreactive with plenty of spin. Then play with this for a year. The rubbers will last you believe me. Then think of something faster.

If you want something cheaper you have neottec katana and a bunch of Chinese rubbers but none of them as good quality…

Cheers
L-zr
If you could recommend something a tiny bit faster than Mark V, what would it be? 😇
 
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If you could recommend something a tiny bit faster than Mark V, what would it be? 😇
If you follow the Yasaka path.

Mark V < Mark V HPS < Rakza 7.

But there are cheaper Chinese options. I keep hearing about AK47, but I never tried it. I played with the Yasaka though.

I used to believe that I needed fast equipment but the best thing I ever did was going back to basics with extremely slow equipment.

I can recommend two carbon outers.
1. Donic Appelgren WC 89
2. Nittaku S-CZ

These two blades are virtually the same. They are slow with a wonderful feedback.

These pairs well with Donic accuda S2 FH S3 BH or Bluegrip S2/S3 if you want a hybrid. The one reservation I have about this is that FH would have a faster rubber and this sounds backwards to me. I have used both S2’s on BH and I find it a good match.

If you choose cheaper rubbers it doesn’t hurt so much to change often…

Cheers
L-zr
 
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T05FX stay away, they are a nightmare in the short game. It is the worst choice for someone learning to push. With the Hadraw 5 I would recommend good old Yasaka Mark V. Don’t listen to anyone saying it’s old fashioned bla bla bla. They are great slow and unreactive with plenty of spin. Then play with this for a year. The rubbers will last you believe me. Then think of something faster.

If you want something cheaper you have neottec katana and a bunch of Chinese rubbers but none of them as good quality…

Cheers
L-zr
If you could recommend something a tiny bit faster than Mark V, what would it be? 😇
If you follow the Yasaka path.

Mark V < Mark V HPS < Rakza 7.

But there are cheaper Chinese options. I keep hearing about AK47, but I never tried it. I played with the Yasaka though.

I used to believe that I needed fast equipment but the best thing I ever did was going back to basics with extremely slow equipment.

I can recommend two carbon outers.
1. Donic Appelgren WC 89
2. Nittaku S-CZ

These two blades are virtually the same. They are slow with a wonderful feedback.

These pairs well with Donic accuda S2 FH S3 BH or Bluegrip S2/S3 if you want a hybrid. The one reservation I have about this is that FH would have a faster rubber and this sounds backwards to me. I have used both S2’s on BH and I find it a good match.

If you choose cheaper rubbers it doesn’t hurt so much to change often…

Cheers
L-zr
Thank you,

I'm open to any other brand tbh, does not necessairly has yo be yasaka only.

That's why I'm asking you guys. The only thing I'm not keen on is boosting, so no chinese rubbers I'd guess.
 
says Mr. super ZLC
If you could recommend something a tiny bit faster than Mark V, what would it be? 😇

Thank you,

I'm open to any other brand tbh, does not necessairly has yo be yasaka only.

That's why I'm asking you guys. The only thing I'm not keen on is boosting, so no chinese rubbers I'd guess.
you do not necessarily have to boost chinese rubbers to play with them. It would also be harder to play with a boosted rubber (as a basement player) but that's beside the point.
I recommend Xiom Vega Europe or Vega Asia
I also like Vega X and Jekyll and Hyde
These are the rubbers I found to be good for new or basement players.

Orrr you can take it my way and start with Tenergy 05 and Dignics 09c right from the start.

(FYI this is a joke. I did not know anything about rubbers; my senior just had them and put them on my racket without telling me anything. he gave them to me for $30 each. yes they are real)
 
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you do not necessarily have to boost chinese rubbers to play with them. It would also be harder to play with a boosted rubber (as a basement player) but that's beside the point.
I recommend Xiom Vega Europe or Vega Asia
I also like Vega X and Jekyll and Hyde
These are the rubbers I found to be good for new or basement players.

Orrr you can take it my way and start with Tenergy 05 and Dignics 09c right from the start.

(FYI this is a joke. I did not know anything about rubbers; my senior just had them and put them on my racket without telling me anything. he gave them to me for $30 each. yes they are real)
Must have wanted you to fail 🤣…
That is the absolutely worst choice…
I have some tenergies in my stash. Their great from position 3 away from the table but horrible up close… Absolutely no marginal at all…

Cheers
L-zr
 
says Mr. super ZLC
Must have wanted you to fail 🤣…
That is the absolutely worst choice…
I have some tenergies in my stash. Their great from position 3 away from the table but horrible up close… Absolutely no marginal at all…

Cheers
L-zr
they prob did want me to fail but it ended up working well for me, all thanks to my coach I made good use of the setup. 😂
 
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they prob did want me to fail but it ended up working well for me, all thanks to my coach I made good use of the setup. 😂
You must be special then, it wouldn’t work for most people believe me. When they are set up like this I use to put some extra pressure and their returns fly of the table. A bit risky but I usually gain more points than I loose 😎

Cheers
L-zr
 
says Mr. super ZLC
You must be special then, it wouldn’t work for most people believe me. When they are set up like this I use to put some extra pressure and their returns fly of the table. A bit risky but I usually gain more points than I loose 😎

Cheers
L-zr
I am pretty sure its because of my coach. a lot of players that learn with him go from a recreational racket straight to Tenergy 05 if he thinks they are cut out for it. almost everyone he has taught has used 05
 
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Ok, so besides Mark V or Mark V HPS, XIOM Vega Europe / Asia, any other recommendations that I could look at?
Soft and spiny rubbers for close to the table to mid range game that are not Rakza 7 or Rakza 7 soft. If they're light, it's a bonus.

Or vice versa...some rubbers that got my attention, feel free to comment on them, your advice to an attacking player who will play mostly against pushers.

Tenergy 05fx - I already got an advice to stay away from them cause they're a pain in the but in close to the table game.

DNA Platinum S
BTY Rozena
BTY Glayzer
Tibhar Evolution FX-P/MX-S


Thank you, much appreciated.
 
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Ok, so besides Mark V or Mark V HPS, XIOM Vega Europe / Asia, any other recommendations that I could look at?
Soft and spiny rubbers for close to the table to mid range game that are not Rakza 7 or Rakza 7 soft. If they're light, it's a bonus.

Or vice versa...some rubbers that got my attention, feel free to comment on them, your advice to an attacking player who will play mostly against pushers.

Tenergy 05fx - I already got an advice to stay away from them cause they're a pain in the but in close to the table game.

DNA Platinum S
BTY Rozena
BTY Glayzer
Tibhar Evolution FX-P/MX-S


Thank you, much appreciated.

Nittaku Fastarc G1 and C1 are similarly in weight and relatively linear behaving. Also last a long time.
 
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Ok, so besides Mark V or Mark V HPS, XIOM Vega Europe / Asia, any other recommendations that I could look at?
Soft and spiny rubbers for close to the table to mid range game that are not Rakza 7 or Rakza 7 soft. If they're light, it's a bonus.

Or vice versa...some rubbers that got my attention, feel free to comment on them, your advice to an attacking player who will play mostly against pushers.

Tenergy 05fx - I already got an advice to stay away from them cause they're a pain in the but in close to the table game.

DNA Platinum S
BTY Rozena
BTY Glayzer
Tibhar Evolution FX-P/MX-S


Thank you, much appreciated.
I can vouch for Rozena coming from Mark V. Get 1.9 for both sides. I felt like R7 has much more catapult and is therefore harder to control in the short game, so I used them briefly (couple of weeks) before replacing with Rozena again. Rozena feels like a modern MV imo.
 
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Another EJ is born. The Sweden Extra with 2 x rakza 7 was a perfectly good choice.

You can get slower and less sensitive to spin, and you can get more and more of that. You landed near the middle, but leaning towards relatively less speed more spin. [compared to the universe of popular equipment]

To me this is the ideal balance for a beginner who wants to learn to play looper style. I coach a friend who started from zero this year. Her first custom bat is a Ma Lin Soft carbon with 2 x rozena. Basically the same effect as your first setup.

If EJing makes you happy then go for it. Like you said in the OP - TT is just a fun hobby - you will not be pro. If you want to improve quickly, spend the equipment money on some lessons with that good coach you found for your son. Or any good coach. You will be glad you did.
 
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