First Short Pips FH suggestion

[Taute]

Hello. I play with inverted rubber on FH (Donic Bluefire M2) and half long pips (Spinlord Gipfelsturm 1.5) on BH. However, I noticed that my top spin, although fast, is not very strong. I am thinking of trying short pips on a second racket. I'm very happy with Gipfelsturm (sometimes I try FH too), but FH is hard to play with...that's why I'd like to try short pips. What I expect from this: to bring some confusion to the opponent, but not to lose the FH's quick attack ability.
The choice is large, my experience is limited..
Initially, I was looking for something that would be most similar to inverted, but would add a bit of confusion.

So far, one of the basic options: Der. Materialspezialist Spinfire Soft.

I got great advice on this forum for switching from long pips to half long pips BH, so maybe someone here can give me some advice. Thanks.

 

[JJ Ng]

Hello. I play with inverted rubber on FH (Donic Bluefire M2) and half long pips (Spinlord Gipfelsturm 1.5) on BH. However, I noticed that my top spin, although fast, is not very strong. I am thinking of trying short pips on a second racket. I'm very happy with Gipfelsturm (sometimes I try FH too), but FH is hard to play with...that's why I'd like to try short pips. What I expect from this: to bring some confusion to the opponent, but not to lose the FH's quick attack ability.
The choice is large, my experience is limited..
Initially, I was looking for something that would be most similar to inverted, but would add a bit of confusion.

So far, one of the basic options: Der. Materialspezialist Spinfire Soft.

I got great advice on this forum for switching from long pips to half long pips BH, so maybe someone here can give me some advice. Thanks.

I played spinfire before. It plays like inverted. If you are looking for speed, yes. If you are looking for deception/confusion, not much.

I have heard that Moristo SP has the more weird effects out of the short pips.

 

[Taute]

I played spinfire before. It plays like inverted. If you are looking for speed, yes. If you are looking for deception/confusion, not much.

I have heard that Moristo SP has the more weird effects out of the short pips.

I've seen a lot of reviews about Moristo SP, but mostly for BH... I wonder if they would be suitable for FH...?

 

[greenbeanmachine]

Spinfire is very similar to inverted, so it could be a good starting point. 802-40 can also create a good amount of spin -- not as much as Spinfire, and you can use it to have some disruptive effects. But both of these rubbers are primarily for playing a standard topspin game -- you are just trading some of your spin for speed. Flat hitting works mostly for countertopspin, and you can't hit through backspin or "roll" the ball as easily as you do with long pips (or other kinds of short pips).

If you want a fast short pip for flat hitting, I'd suggest Spectol. Morisito is also pretty good but not as fast or disruptive as Spectol. With Spectol you can really hit disruptive balls -- if your opponent gives you topspin you can smash it back with backspin. Also, if your opponent gives you backspin, you can attack it. Rolling the ball with Spectol is also pretty easy (but be careful with heavy spin). You can serve with some spin, but you have to serve fast and long in order for it to be effective.

Initially, I was looking for something that would be most similar to inverted, but would add a bit of confusion.

Unfortunately, "being similar to inverted rubber" and "being confusing" are opposites. If you want one, you have to tradeoff with the other. Spinfire is almost 100% like inverted (although you can make some nice chop blocks with it). 802-40 gives you a bit of disruption, but you have to work for it. Spectol is very confusing but it's difficult to create your own topspin.

Imo if you're using a hard blade (e.g. Ma Lin Extra Offensive), then 802-40 works best. And if you're using a soft blade (e.g. Clipper), then Spectol works best. But that's just my opinion.

 

[Taute]

Spinfire is very similar to inverted, so it could be a good starting point. 802-40 can also create a good amount of spin -- not as much as Spinfire, and you can use it to have some disruptive effects. But both of these rubbers are primarily for playing a standard topspin game -- you are just trading some of your spin for speed. Flat hitting works mostly for countertopspin, and you can't hit through backspin or "roll" the ball as easily as you do with long pips (or other kinds of short pips).

If you want a fast short pip for flat hitting, I'd suggest Spectol. Morisito is also pretty good but not as fast or disruptive as Spectol. With Spectol you can really hit disruptive balls -- if your opponent gives you topspin you can smash it back with backspin. Also, if your opponent gives you backspin, you can attack it. Rolling the ball with Spectol is also pretty easy (but be careful with heavy spin).

Imo if you're using a hard blade (e.g. Ma Lin Extra Offensive), then 802-40 works best. And if you're using a soft blade (e.g. Clipper), then Spectol works best. But that's just my opinion.

Very detailed answer, thanks. I play with a soft blade (Re Impact Rapier 44). I want to clarify: which Spectol model do you have in mind (s1, s2 or s3)? What thickness of sponge should I start with? For me, good control and at least some ditstruption/confusion effect are more important than speed.

 

[greenbeanmachine]

Very detailed answer, thanks. I play with a soft blade (Re Impact Rapier 44). I want to clarify: which Spectol model do you have in mind (s1, s2 or s3)? What thickness of sponge should I start with? For me, good control and at least some ditstruption/confusion effect are more important than speed.

I use Spectol Speed (1.7mm), which is sadly no longer in production. There's still one in stock on Megaspin but it's in black 1.3mm. I think Spectol S2 should be most similar to Spectol Speed. Mostly what I like about it is the hard sponge, so you can create spin with hard sharp impact, or you can reverse spin with soft tangential impact. Soft sponge pips will be better for looping, and hard sponge will be better for confusing effects.

Regarding sponge thickness, I think 1.3 is perfectly fine and I wouldn't mind using it. In your case, if you are using long pips on backhand then you may want to be able to create spin with the forehand -- this will require something a bit thicker (you could try 1.8 or 2.0 or even 2.2). I've never tried playing pips on both sides, so I can't really speak to this concern, but from my perspective it seems like something you might want to think about. If you can't create as much spin, then you basically need to serve fast and long every single time to catch your opponent off guard.

 

[Taute]

I use Spectol Speed (1.7mm), which is sadly no longer in production. There's still one in stock on Megaspin but it's in black 1.3mm. I think Spectol S2 should be most similar to Spectol Speed. Mostly what I like about it is the hard sponge, so you can create spin with hard sharp impact, or you can reverse spin with soft tangential impact. Soft sponge pips will be better for looping, and hard sponge will be better for confusing effects.

Regarding sponge thickness, I think 1.3 is perfectly fine and I wouldn't mind using it. In your case, if you are using long pips on backhand then you may want to be able to create spin with the forehand -- this will require something a bit thicker (you could try 1.8 or 2.0 or even 2.2). I've never tried playing pips on both sides, so I can't really speak to this concern, but from my perspective it seems like something you might want to think about. If you can't create as much spin, then you basically need to serve fast and long every single time to catch your opponent off guard.

Have you tried TSP Spin Magic? I found a few good reviews online, and there's only one new one on sale, 1.8 mm.

 

[greenbeanmachine]

I never tried Spin Magic, but the reviews are good. It looks like you can create spin, and also make some disruptive effects. Probably similar to 802 or 802-40. As far as I know, Spin Magic is not a particularly popular pip, but maybe you'll like it.

 

[Lula]

Better to change if you have a good smash, not being a bad looper.
I think that if yuu have half long pips on your backhand will the opponent loop but also push a lot. Looping with a short pimple will not get good quality. Maybe enough, depending on your level. And maybe they loop more at a higher level against the half long pips. Also much easier in the beginning to start with a short pimple with more grip then later change.
I think 802-40 have great grip, but not fast and some versions very hard so maybe need to boost. Or maybe it is good to try a slower rubber in the beginning?
Othervise i think Spinpips(the one with inbuilt speed glue effect), victas vo 102 and rakza po is pretty good. Mabe try the spinfire if that one have a lot of grip.

 

[allencorn]

I play with Spinfire soft, and I have found the blade really makes a difference. I play with a Matador, and it is stiff blade, so the spin seems to be less than it might be otherwise, but it is fast, which is what you want with short pips. On a softer blade, it is probably spinner, but less fast. Not really that disruptive, but people who are expecting traditional pips play are surprised by the amount of spin, particularly on serves.

I have Outkill on the backhand, it is a pretty bizarre rubber. if you really engage the sponge, it is really spinny, but if you flat hit, it produces a pretty spinless ball.

There are some good YouTube videos of both these rubbers on the WRM website.

Good luck. Lots of choices out there.

 

[Taute]

I play with Spinfire soft, and I have found the blade really makes a difference. I play with a Matador, and it is stiff blade, so the spin seems to be less than it might be otherwise, but it is fast, which is what you want with short pips. On a softer blade, it is probably spinner, but less fast. Not really that disruptive, but people who are expecting traditional pips play are surprised by the amount of spin, particularly on serves.

I have Outkill on the backhand, it is a pretty bizarre rubber. if you really engage the sponge, it is really spinny, but if you flat hit, it produces a pretty spinless ball.

There are some good YouTube videos of both these rubbers on the WRM website.

Good luck. Lots of choices out there.

Thanks! I will look for the video on YouTube.

 

[Azku]

Spinfire is very similar to inverted, so it could be a good starting point. 802-40 can also create a good amount of spin -- not as much as Spinfire, and you can use it to have some disruptive effects. But both of these rubbers are primarily for playing a standard topspin game -- you are just trading some of your spin for speed. Flat hitting works mostly for countertopspin, and you can't hit through backspin or "roll" the ball as easily as you do with long pips (or other kinds of short pips).

If you want a fast short pip for flat hitting, I'd suggest Spectol. Morisito is also pretty good but not as fast or disruptive as Spectol. With Spectol you can really hit disruptive balls -- if your opponent gives you topspin you can smash it back with backspin. Also, if your opponent gives you backspin, you can attack it. Rolling the ball with Spectol is also pretty easy (but be careful with heavy spin). You can serve with some spin, but you have to serve fast and long in order for it to be effective.


Unfortunately, "being similar to inverted rubber" and "being confusing" are opposites. If you want one, you have to tradeoff with the other. Spinfire is almost 100% like inverted (although you can make some nice chop blocks with it). 802-40 gives you a bit of disruption, but you have to work for it. Spectol is very confusing but it's difficult to create your own topspin.

Imo if you're using a hard blade (e.g. Ma Lin Extra Offensive), then 802-40 works best. And if you're using a soft blade (e.g. Clipper), then Spectol works best. But that's just my opinion.

Would you recommend the same rubber for 1 ply hinoki jpen? I'm using 802 Mystery III at the moment.

 

[Gekko]

I think you should start with the spinpips, or now called Victas D1. It spins plenty and gives a great linear feel that you'd need to start with.

802-40 mentioned earlier is also a good option, but it's very sponge dependent.

And the rest: spinfire, vo102, Rakza PO are all too bouncy to develop your feel for SP.

Treat it like learning with a new inverted, surely we'd recommend Sriver instead of Tenergy or Dignics

 

[Azku]

I think you should start with the spinpips, or now called Victas D1. It spins plenty and gives a great linear feel that you'd need to start with.

802-40 mentioned earlier is also a good option, but it's very sponge dependent.

And the rest: spinfire, vo102, Rakza PO are all too bouncy to develop your feel for SP.

Treat it like learning with a new inverted, surely we'd recommend Sriver instead of Tenergy or Dignics

Thanks.
I do prefer linear rubbers even for inverted rubbers.
If it's spinny, wouldn't it be similar to inverted?

 

[greenbeanmachine]

Would you recommend the same rubber for 1 ply hinoki jpen? I'm using 802 Mystery III at the moment.

802 is a good pip. For jpen hinoki it's hard to say -- on one hand, I think soft wood (e.g. hinoki) works best with low-friction pips. On the other hand, you only have one rubber so you can't create spin with the backhand. I'd say probably stick with 802.

802-40 is another good option, and somewhat similar to 802. I'd say try 802-40 and see if you like it. Sticking with 802 is also a good decision.

I think you should start with the spinpips, or now called Victas D1. It spins plenty and gives a great linear feel that you'd need to start with.

802-40 mentioned earlier is also a good option, but it's very sponge dependent.

And the rest: spinfire, vo102, Rakza PO are all too bouncy to develop your feel for SP.

Treat it like learning with a new inverted, surely we'd recommend Sriver instead of Tenergy or Dignics

Spinpips is solid as well but I think 802-40 is better. Spinpips feels very similar to inverted rubber, and lacks disruptive effect.

 

[Gekko]

Thanks.
I do prefer linear rubbers even for inverted rubbers.
If it's spinny, wouldn't it be similar to inverted?

Nope, even the same spin SP has a different arc than inverted. Something many inverted players change a lot without thinking is depth of contact, whereas SP can't actually lift heavy backspin with topsheet alone (thin contact) and requires either a solid contact or a roll stroke.

Disruptive effect (sink) of the ball is a function of the rubber and of the stroke. You'll find it naturally sinks more with a FH than a BH.

Anyway I hope you have fun with the SP FH journey!