Have You Used an Asymmetric Blade Like the SANWEI Two Face? Share Your Experience!

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Hello everyone, ;) this is Andrea!🙋‍♂️

As a representative of SANWEI, we’d love to hear your thoughts and experiences with asymmetric blades—those designed with an offensive and a defensive side, like our SANWEI Two Face.💥两张脸整体.jpg

Have you used a blade with this kind of structure before? What was your experience like? Did it influence your playing style or strategy in any way?🤔

I’m really interested in your insights and opinions on this type of blade! Feel free to share your thoughts—whether it's about control, spin, power, or any other aspect of your game.

Looking forward to your responses!🥰
 
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I played with Donic's Alligator combi many years ago, i remember having good performance and it suited my game style, unfortunately its balsa core weakened over time, due to absorbed sweat/humidity and broke. That's why I'm hesitant to get a balsa blade again.

Although, Two Face seems interesting given that the ebony and carbon might protect the balsa layer by stiffening the blade
 
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just send me the blade with and I'll be happy to test it.
My thoughts exactly 😂😂😂
Andrea, I am currently playing with 2 blades that are, as you call it , asymmetric.
One is the DHS-G and the other a STUOR copy. They are both excellent blades and the basic idea is OK.
Of course it has to be said that not only ALL Professional players but even many ordinary club players are playing with 2 completely different rubbers on BH and FH. Therefore this kind of blade is only of use to those that would go and buy a ready-made racket with the same rubbers already fitted.

I have experimented with both my asymmetrical blades by not only fitting the same rubbers, I gone the extra mile and started with even fitting the same rubber using the same colors because as we know there is already a difference between a black rubber H 39 - sponge 2.1mm and its equivalent red sister with the same numbers.

While i am still happy to play with both my asymmetrical blades , I consider the basic idea nothing more than a fashion -fad.
Or with other words a waste of good wood🤣
🤣🤣
 
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I've had customers request two speed blades from me before, but when used in in isolation the don't do much. You have to look at the rubbers you use as well.

A two speed blade works best when you also alter the rubbers you use to heighten the effect. You put a slower rubber on the slower side, or a faster rubber on the faster side, in order to heighten the two speed nature of the blade... Otherwise the two speed effect is subtle.

Or in other words, to get the two speed effect they were chasing, the player has to do what they were sometimes trying to avoid in the first place, which is to use a slower / faster rubber on one side.

The other point I would make here is that if you need to use a slower rubber to slow down the slow side, then just how well was 'the slow side' doing it's job in the first place?

Additionally, the whole "two speed blade" name is misleading. The blade doesn't have two speeds, it has two different hardnesses and two different average/accumulative densities on its two different sides, in order to create two different quantities of impact force reflection and/or absorption.

While it is technically possible to create a blade with two different hardnesses /accumulative densities on each side, I have yet to see a single one of them flex consistently, as they all use convoluted asymmetric ply recipes to try to isolate the faster and slower sides from each other. So even if you manage to get two different amounts of reflected / absorbed impact energy, you'll still also usually get two very different throw angles to go with it, along with asymmetric flex during play, which makes returning the ball more difficult.

You typically get around THAT problem by making the blade either very thick which makes returning low pushes difficult, or by making it as stiff as a board with no flex whatsoever through other methods... which ALSO reduces the throw angle, and eats into your dwell time, therefore you get less spin.

Meanwhile, the complex asymmetric structure of the blade makes it more prone to warping or cupping in the presence of any wood movement due to moisture absorption, so the blade is less prone to stay straight. To try and compensate for THAT, you need to seal the wood heavily to prevent moisture-based wood movement and/or add a little extra stiffening yet again to the blade's core region -- hence the layer of heavy carbon in your blade above. This also has the effect of providing the very high density layer you need to better isolate the vibrations between the two different sides, and prevent them from cancelling each other out (How thick is that carbon layer in your blade by the way? Does it comply with ITTF rules about composite materials? If so then congratulations, you're doing very well -- myself I could never find a way to make it work and still keep the blade ITTF compliant.)

Problem is, even IF you get all the above right, the behaviour of the blade is still going to change and vary depending on the density, hardness and thickness of the rubbers you put on it.... Just like every other 'normal' symmetrical one-speed blade on the planet.

Long story short, while two speed blades are technically possible to create, they don't necessarily solve the problem they were typically designed for, which is the end user having reduced control/touch/power on one wing or one side of the body. You can achieve the same result largely through rubber choice alone, or even better, by addressing the technique flaws that lead to the original problem, via additional coaching and practice.
 
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It is too late for all the wisdom mate, she already has it in the Catalogue for sale.
She should have asked you first 😂😂😂
It's all good Lodro mate -- I've honestly never tried using their blade, so I don't honestly know how well it works.

Looking at the ply composition I can see what they were thinking, and who knows... They might actually have cracked it; the ebony outer layer on one side is certainly a novel idea and may actually be the missing piece of the puzzle (personally I have my doubts, as with ebony outers weight becomes a huge factor... but it's impossible to comment further on its effectiveness without trying one).

I still won't be trying one myself though, as IMO there's much better ways to go about solving the problem... Like for example, better technique and a lot more practice with one slower rubber. 😎😎
 
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IMO there's much better ways to go about solving the problem... Like for example, better technique and a lot more practice with one slower rubber. 😎😎
Yep, that is about all it needs 😁

In my efforts to prove that "asymmetrics " are bollocks I went as far as making a quick "knock-up" having on the "fast side" a 3mm thick sheet of carbonfibre and again the identical rubbers on both sides. And still there was only a subtle difference. QED
 
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The biggest factor here being rubber, you might notice more difference putting OX on both sides. But even then I guess it would be pretty subtle.
Asymmetrical blades always seem to me like you're risking the balance of a good composition to generate a minimal, surface-only effect.
 
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Asymmetrical blades always seem to me like you're risking the balance of a good composition to generate a minimal, surface-only effect.
You are not wrong but the minimal surface-only effect is so minimal that the balance is still guaranteed.
With other words one might well end up having purchased a decent , well balanced blade but had to pay double the price for a useless gimmick 😂
 
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I played with Donic's Alligator combi many years ago, i remember having good performance and it suited my game style, unfortunately its balsa core weakened over time, due to absorbed sweat/humidity and broke. That's why I'm hesitant to get a balsa blade again.

Although, Two Face seems interesting given that the ebony and carbon might protect the balsa layer by stiffening the blade
Thank you for your information, I will try them.
 
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Andrea, I am currently playing with 2 blades that are, as you call it , asymmetric.
One is the DHS-G and the other a STUOR copy. They are both excellent blades and the basic idea is OK.
Of course it has to be said that not only ALL Professional players but even many ordinary club players are playing with 2 completely different rubbers on BH and FH. Therefore this kind of blade is only of use to those that would go and buy a ready-made racket with the same rubbers already fitted.

I have experimented with both my asymmetrical blades by not only fitting the same rubbers, I gone the extra mile and started with even fitting the same rubber using the same colors because as we know there is already a difference between a black rubber H 39 - sponge 2.1mm and its equivalent red sister with the same numbers.

While i am still happy to play with both my asymmetrical blades , I consider the basic idea nothing more than a fashion -fad.
Or with other words a waste of good wood🤣
🤣🤣
Hello sir, thank you for your information.

In fact, I have used Two Face for 3 months, and my primary experience is that the first speed of the ball hitting the hinoki + carbon surface is indeed significantly faster than the ebony side.

Also, you could see that TWO Face has a mixed-core ( Ayous+ Basla). Since the density of balsa wood is very low, a mixed core of half balsa and half Ayous may not be enough to absorb the power of the opponent's ball for players who use ebony wood for defense. Our designers want to increase the proportion of balsa wood in the mixed-core, he wants to know what everyone thinks about this matter.

Regards,
 
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I've had customers request two speed blades from me before, but when used in in isolation the don't do much. You have to look at the rubbers you use as well.

A two speed blade works best when you also alter the rubbers you use to heighten the effect. You put a slower rubber on the slower side, or a faster rubber on the faster side, in order to heighten the two speed nature of the blade... Otherwise the two speed effect is subtle.

Or in other words, to get the two speed effect they were chasing, the player has to do what they were sometimes trying to avoid in the first place, which is to use a slower / faster rubber on one side.

The other point I would make here is that if you need to use a slower rubber to slow down the slow side, then just how well was 'the slow side' doing it's job in the first place?

Additionally, the whole "two speed blade" name is misleading. The blade doesn't have two speeds, it has two different hardnesses and two different average/accumulative densities on its two different sides, in order to create two different quantities of impact force reflection and/or absorption.

While it is technically possible to create a blade with two different hardnesses /accumulative densities on each side, I have yet to see a single one of them flex consistently, as they all use convoluted asymmetric ply recipes to try to isolate the faster and slower sides from each other. So even if you manage to get two different amounts of reflected / absorbed impact energy, you'll still also usually get two very different throw angles to go with it, along with asymmetric flex during play, which makes returning the ball more difficult.

You typically get around THAT problem by making the blade either very thick which makes returning low pushes difficult, or by making it as stiff as a board with no flex whatsoever through other methods... which ALSO reduces the throw angle, and eats into your dwell time, therefore you get less spin.

Meanwhile, the complex asymmetric structure of the blade makes it more prone to warping or cupping in the presence of any wood movement due to moisture absorption, so the blade is less prone to stay straight. To try and compensate for THAT, you need to seal the wood heavily to prevent moisture-based wood movement and/or add a little extra stiffening yet again to the blade's core region -- hence the layer of heavy carbon in your blade above. This also has the effect of providing the very high density layer you need to better isolate the vibrations between the two different sides, and prevent them from cancelling each other out (How thick is that carbon layer in your blade by the way? Does it comply with ITTF rules about composite materials? If so then congratulations, you're doing very well -- myself I could never find a way to make it work and still keep the blade ITTF compliant.)

Problem is, even IF you get all the above right, the behaviour of the blade is still going to change and vary depending on the density, hardness and thickness of the rubbers you put on it.... Just like every other 'normal' symmetrical one-speed blade on the planet.

Long story short, while two speed blades are technically possible to create, they don't necessarily solve the problem they were typically designed for, which is the end user having reduced control/touch/power on one wing or one side of the body. You can achieve the same result largely through rubber choice alone, or even better, by addressing the technique flaws that lead to the original problem, via additional coaching and practice.
Hello sir,

Thank you for your long detailed experience, it is very helpful.

I will send it to our designer.

In my personal experience, I use Dizzy OX on the all-wood (defensive) side for blocking. Since this side has a pure wood structure with a Balsa core, the blocks tend to have a slightly higher and shorter arc. On the other hand, the heavy carbon offensive side produces a lower arc and extremely fast first speed, performing similarly to the Cannon Carbon.

Notably, I often rotate my racket during play. For example, when my opponent gets used to the defensive side’s trajectory, I switch to the offensive side for a powerful punch block, catching them off guard. Of course, this tactic is only effective against players at a lower level than me.

Best regards,
 
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The biggest factor here being rubber, you might notice more difference putting OX on both sides. But even then I guess it would be pretty subtle.
Asymmetrical blades always seem to me like you're risking the balance of a good composition to generate a minimal, surface-only effect.
Thank you for your experience.
 
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Hello sir,

Thank you for your long detailed experience, it is very helpful.

I will send it to our designer.

In my personal experience, I use Dizzy OX on the all-wood (defensive) side for blocking. Since this side has a pure wood structure with a Balsa core, the blocks tend to have a slightly higher and shorter arc. On the other hand, the heavy carbon offensive side produces a lower arc and extremely fast first speed, performing similarly to the Cannon Carbon.

Notably, I often rotate my racket during play. For example, when my opponent gets used to the defensive side’s trajectory, I switch to the offensive side for a powerful punch block, catching them off guard. Of course, this tactic is only effective against players at a lower level than me.

Best regards,
Thank you for sharing your perspective Andrea 🙂 I must say, the idea of twiddling with a two speed blade is an intriguing one, and I can see the potential appeal.

I myself have avoided using asymmetric dual-density blades personally, for the reasons I outlined in my post. All the customers I have made similar blades for in the past, were universally doing so to gain better control on one wing, as opposed to generating disruption. But you asked for our thoughts and experiences with two sided blades in general, so I thought I would share my own experiences in the hope they might be useful

All that being said, you make an excellent point -- I can conceive that a dual density blade might theoretically be very well suited to a spin negation / disruption playing style. 🤔

I find myself wondering though if a blade specifically and solely designed for slight asymmetric flex (as opposed to designed for dual densities) might be a better fit for that purpose 🤔🤔

It seems to me the two separate densities and hardnesses of the blade shown in your opening post, would definitely assist with disruption, but it might also (again this is in theory) overly interfere with a player's sense of touch 🤔 (your observation you choose to *punch* after twiddling (as opposed to using defter, more deceitful touch based strokes) seems to support the idea it's hard to have deft touch after momentarily changing the hardness of your playing outers by twiddling.

I acknowledge that people -- given enough time -- can and will adjust to the idiosyncracies of twiddling with a dual hardness blade, but by the same logic, given enough time they can also adjust to doing so in the *absence* of two different densities as well... (I imagine it might also be a quicker process too, but in the absence of any data either way, it would be difficult to say categorically. 🤔)

Moving on, I note you mentioned your engineer was curious about people's feelings about increasing the proportion of balsa in the blade's core. From what I can gather, they are contemplating this idea to potentially slow down the defensive side.

For what it's worth Andrea, In my own opinion, I personally doubt that increasing the proportion of balsa in the core in isolation will make that much of a difference, or give you the results you want. Really, it very much depends on what other changes your engineer also intends to make to the other surrounding layers

If you increase the amount of balsa in the core, without adjusting the other core and medial layers to suit, it will most likely only result in a slightly thicker and faster blade, with a slightly stiffer core....and here's why:

As I intimated in my earlier post, there are a plethora of engineering problems you need to solve to build a dual-density blade. Trying to resolve most of these problems tends have the accumulative effect or outcome, of pushing you towards:

1. thickening the core to add stiffness and/or,
2. Adding more balsa.

As balsa is such a stiff and light wood, adding more of it is a tempting and obvious option to solve your problems regarding both stiffening the blade, and insulating the two different density zones from each other.

Balsa naturally resists the transmission of vibrations -- this is why balsa-cored blades typically have very little feedback / vibration during play compared to denser cores like Ayous, and is why it's so useful as a sound / vibration insulator.

However, adding more balsa is a double edged sword when building twin-density blades, because of the balsa effect.

Balsa is widely known to have a non-linear impact response curve (ie: it's hugely bouncy stuff).

This is why balsa blades are so popular with blockers / pips out players -- the balsa layers provide enormous rebound speed when blocking, (especially when teamed with an accommodating outer like koto).

Furthermore, the thicker your balsa is, the greater a blade's rebound speed becomes.

Because balsa is such a stiff wood at thicker dimensions, this feature also helps contribute to this extra rebound speed via reduced flex (blade flex partially absorbs impact forces through temporary plastic deformations).

Here however, your engineer seems to want to add extra balsa in the hope it will have a cushioning effect, and absorb some impact forces due to its comparative softness, and thereby slow down the blade. 🤔

I hate to be a downer here Andrea, but I very much doubt that will work at all.

Its my personal and professional opinion, that adding more balsa (if anything) is actually more likely to speed the slow side up, rather than slow it down.

The reason for this is thick Balsa layers don't insulate each side by absorbingb impact forces and/or vibration s... -- they resist and reflect them instead.

If balsa absorbed impact forces, then thick balsa blades like the Donic Cayman or Dr Neubauer High Technology would not have the fantastic blocking speed they do.

Furthermore, the thicker the balsa is, the better it is at reflecting impact forces back towards the outer layer.

In the ply composition above, I note you don't mention how thick each individual layer is (and I don't blame you).
If that balsa layer is already 2.5mm thick or over, I strongly suspect making it thicker will only speed the blade up from within, by reflecting more impact forces back towards the ball.

I strongly recommend if you're going to increase the amount of balsa, I would also take a long hard look at the surrounding layers as well.

(Hint for your engineer: IMO at least, there's a MUCH better way to manage your impact forces than thickening the tertiary balsa layer in search of a cushioning effects. If I were you, I'd be looking pretty hard at that beech layer instead, and start asking yourself why using beech under ebony might possibly be a bad idea in this instance... 😉👌 )


In any respect Andrea, your observation you can twiddle with the blade above to vary the throw angle, flight path and spin levels is still an excellent observation nonetheless, 🙂🙂(it's also sparked a few tangential ideas for me in some of my own current blade-dev projects that might be worth investigating, so thank you very much for the Inspiration 😂).

Thank you very much also Andrea most sincerely, for sharing this discussion about Sanwei's blade development with us all, and for being willing to converse with us all so openly. 😊

Really hope you guys get some useful feedback from it -- from my perspective at least, it's been genuinely fascinating discussion thus far. 🙂
 
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Thank you for sharing your perspective Andrea 🙂 I must say, the idea of twiddling with a two speed blade is an intriguing one, and I can see the potential appeal.

I myself have avoided using asymmetric dual-density blades personally, for the reasons I outlined in my post. All the customers I have made similar blades for in the past, were universally doing so to gain better control on one wing, as opposed to generating disruption. But you asked for our thoughts and experiences with two sided blades in general, so I thought I would share my own experiences in the hope they might be useful

All that being said, you make an excellent point -- I can conceive that a dual density blade might theoretically be very well suited to a spin negation / disruption playing style. 🤔

I find myself wondering though if a blade specifically and solely designed for slight asymmetric flex (as opposed to designed for dual densities) might be a better fit for that purpose 🤔🤔

It seems to me the two separate densities and harnesses of the blade shown in your opening post would definitely assist with disruption, but might also (again this is in theory) might overly interfere with a player's sense of touch 🤔 (your observation that you choose to punch after twiddling (as opposed to using defter, more deceitful touch strokes) seems to support the idea to a certain degree

I acknowledge that people -- given enough time -- can and will adjust to the idiosyncracies of twiddling with a dual hardness blade, but by the same logic, given enough time they can also adjust to doing so in the *absence* of two different densities as well... (I imagine it might also be a quicker process too, but in the absence of any data either way, it would be difficult to tell. 🤔)

In any respect, your observation you can twiddle with the blade above without too many problems is still an excellent observation nonetheless, 🙂🙂(it's also sparked a few tangential ideas for me in some of my own blade-dev projects that might be worth investigating 😂). Thank you very much once again for sharing your perspective so openly 😎
Hello sir,

Thank you for your interest.
Our designers have a plan to update the TWO FACE.
You can see that TWO Face has a mixed-core ( Ayous+ Basla). Since the density of balsa wood is very low, a mixed core of half balsa and half Ayous may not be enough to absorb the power of the opponent's ball for players who use ebony wood for defense. Our designers want to increase the proportion of balsa wood in the mixed-core, and he wants to know what everyone thinks about this matter.

I believe your experience will inspire him.

Regards,
 
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Hello sir,

Thank you for your interest.
Our designers have a plan to update the TWO FACE.
You can see that TWO Face has a mixed-core ( Ayous+ Basla). Since the density of balsa wood is very low, a mixed core of half balsa and half Ayous may not be enough to absorb the power of the opponent's ball for players who use ebony wood for defense. Our designers want to increase the proportion of balsa wood in the mixed-core, and he wants to know what everyone thinks about this matter.

I believe your experience will inspire him.

Regards,
Thank you so much for your very kind words. 🙂 I genuinely hope they get something out of it as well, and I wish you all well with this project.

If your engineer wished to speak to me about my thoughts at length, I'm happy to do so, and they are welcome to send me a DM to that end. Given however I do this stuff for a living, I will sadly also need to charge Sanwei sorry if it wants me to contribute any further 🤣
 
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