Hiding Contact Point?!

[Lando]

Hi TTD,

Today something odd happened at my club.
I played a left handed player (never played him before), and he kept saying how he couldn't see the contact point.
I kept telling him that he had to move more to his left, but he said you should be able to see the contact point from anywhere on the table. Is this true?
This is the first time I have heard this, and no one has ever said anything before, and quite a few players can read my serves without issues.

I remove my arm immediately after the toss. But he said I kept blocking it with my body.
I am not sure how that is possible.
I understand you guys can't tell me without a video, but was wondering if this is something left handers have a hard time with?

Thank you!

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

left vs right (and vice versa), it happens very often for fh serves.
this is a grey area in the international stage with umpires calling the shot.
Players can call let to the moon and back, and if the umpire doesn't see it as a problem, the player will need to learn to cope with it (it happens more than one thinks).

As long as your point of contact is open for down the line, that should be no problem.
But from higher level players, the training does evolve with opening up that "down the line" view, as late as possible.

 

[SlowPower]

Sure he is right as long as he tells the truth.
You have to deal with it. By the way this is very similar in double matches...

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

2.6.4 From the start of service until it is struck, the ball shall be above the level of the playing surface and behind the server's end line, and it shall not be hidden from the receiver by the server or his or her doubles partner or by anything they wear or carry.

Its hard to answer your question without applying a bit of interpretation to the relevant rule (2.6.4), but I would suggest your opponent is probably right. It doesn't look like the onus is on the receiver to move to a different receiving position in order to see the ball. I would interpret the rule as saying that the onus is on you as the server to modify your positioning relative to the receiver to ensure that when you serve the ball isn't hidden from the receiver.

the measurement is actually from the 2 net post to the server's body.

because if say your opponent stands (for example), by the umpires table (by the serves bh side), then your body will be blocking from the view of the receiver no matter how clean you serve the ball from a forehand position

then the grey area is, toss and your toss arm need to move and body needs to get into position.
This movement is normally where servers can hide the ball and players do train this, as since it is a movement, the umpires need to be very careful on how or when to fault a blockage.

Its a pretty grey area, with words in the handbook pretty limited in this regards.
So every high level player do play on this grey area purposely.

I would suggest to OP
if there is no umpire and no fairness, then try and play fair.
if your opponent is not fair, then up to you on what to do. I have used hidden serve before with really unfair servers in South Africa before. No one called anything lol

 

[Lando]

Thank you for all the replies, I really appreciate it!


So to avoid this issue, I will start serving to his backhand ( down the line-ish) when doing a pendulum serve. As someone suggested, if you can serve down the line, and don't hide the ball, the serve is legal.

 

[Lando]

the measurement is actually from the 2 net post to the server's body.

because if say your opponent stands (for example), by the umpires table (by the serves bh side), then your body will be blocking from the view of the receiver no matter how clean you serve the ball from a forehand position

then the grey area is, toss and your toss arm need to move and body needs to get into position.
This movement is normally where servers can hide the ball and players do train this, as since it is a movement, the umpires need to be very careful on how or when to fault a blockage.

Its a pretty grey area, with words in the handbook pretty limited in this regards.
So every high level player do play on this grey area purposely.

I would suggest to OP
if there is no umpire and no fairness, then try and play fair.
if your opponent is not fair, then up to you on what to do. I have used hidden serve before with really unfair servers in South Africa before. No one called anything lol

Exactly.
I do not want an unfair advantage, especially since I am still quite new (came back after 20+ years) and don't want to get any bad habits.

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

Exactly.
I do not want an unfair advantage, especially since I am still quite new (came back after 20+ years) and don't want to get any bad habits.

yeah

some of the best serves in the world nowadays is "openly visible" serves to the opponent.
Like the BH serves - facing opponent in full view.
and tomahawk serves

end of day, when serves can be returned, the serve only creates opportunity for 3rd ball and 5th ball play (get the rally going in your advantage)
in lower level, good serves will win you the point out right, but not for high level

 

[Gtsnake]

This rule sadly needs much more refining. By definition most of the players I play against and watch have illegal serves including pros. There is almost always at some point where the ball is hidden from view. When I play I serve clearly in view but I'm so tired of people who have borderline serves where it is partially hidden. I'm tired of being taken advantage of so I've started to practice a semi illegal serve when I play those type of players.

 

[NDH]

Thank you for all the replies, I really appreciate it!


So to avoid this issue, I will start serving to his backhand ( down the line-ish) when doing a pendulum serve. As someone suggested, if you can serve down the line, and don't hide the ball, the serve is legal.

Hey Lando,

I would advise against simply serving to his backhand when doing a pendulum serve - If nothing else, it'll make you more predictable.

One option you could look at is hitting the ball closer to the middle of the table - This way you'll be able to do your pendulum serve down the line to his BH, or cross court to his FH, and your position/serve technique won't give anything away.

 

[igorponger]

The answer is very simple. There must not be ANYTHING between the ball and net from the start of serve till the ball is struck. THIS IS A WRITTEN RULE.

2.6.5 As soon as the ball has been projected, the server’s free arm and hand shall
be removed from the space between the ball and the net.
The space between the ball and the net is defined by the ball, the net and
its indefinite upward extension.​

Be happy.

 

[lodro]

Thank you for all the replies, I really appreciate it!


So to avoid this issue, I will start serving to his backhand ( down the line-ish) when doing a pendulum serve. As someone suggested, if you can serve down the line, and don't hide the ball, the serve is legal.

🤣 I would say :" I am a lefty so p l e a s e do serve down the line to me my favorite shot is a nasty BH flick "
🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣

 

[blahness]

It's fairly easy, if you take away your left hand, and you serve with your shoulders perpendicular to the table, you can't be hiding the serve (there's literally no mechanism to hide it). Also it's legal to hide the bat before and after contact, only the ball needs to be fully visible at all times.

Most ppl who hide their serves simply don't rotate to this perpendicular position and still have shoulderd facing a little backwards when they contact the ball. This allows the left shoulder to hide the ball. A lot of pros do this.

Also some people play unfair and complain about hidden serves while they themselves hide the serves more. 😡😡😡 I really despise ppl like that.

 

[superbackhand]

when it is 9-9, all of a sudden the serve is hard to follow...