How to play against BH short pips players?

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Whenever I play BH short pips players, I feel I'm at a permanent disadvantage. From their pips, they can loop and drive and smash. But even their basic rally shot gives me trouble on every rally. It has no spin, so I have to change my stroke and brush up on every single shot resulting in more errors on my part.

It seems like anything under 2000 is at a permanent disadvantage against short pips, especially on the BH.

How can I play against SP players without increasing my own error rate?
 
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The simple answer is that the one or two SP players you mention are simply better players than you right now. You can change that a little or a lot.

There are a number of things you can do to help your chances, but trying to put them to work in a match vs them right now is only going to make your pain worse... but at some point, you will need to do that to grow vs these players.

It sounds like you are playing too cautious safe vs them and they are ready to attack your "safe" ball. You will need to figure out how to deal with their attacks on your safe balls or figure out how to prevent them from using their feared SP rubber.

HEAVY HEAVY HEAVY spin, I mean real damn slow heavy spin is something these players hate light shining a light on cockroaches or Dracula.

They hate it if you can flip their serves to the middle or wide corners.

They hate it if you can find their middle.

They hate it if you serve real short and low dead ball to their FH near side line, then push the return ball to their deep BH corner.

They REALLY hate it if you show you can strongly attack a long return to the middle, the wide FH corner, or short side of table down the line to their BH.

They hate it if you can serve very low and tight underspin to their short BH, (they often return this to the "safe" angle cross-court to your BH) then you rip out a fast loop down their FH line or heavy topspin ti real slow to middle or FH or anywhere... they hate real heavy.
 
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Whenever I play BH short pips players, I feel I'm at a permanent disadvantage. From their pips, they can loop and drive and smash. But even their basic rally shot gives me trouble on every rally. It has no spin, so I have to change my stroke and brush up on every single shot resulting in more errors on my part.

It seems like anything under 2000 is at a permanent disadvantage against short pips, especially on the BH.

How can I play against SP players without increasing my own error rate?
Why do you think that one can not spin with SP ?
 
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Whenever I play BH short pips players, I feel I'm at a permanent disadvantage. From their pips, they can loop and drive and smash. But even their basic rally shot gives me trouble on every rally. It has no spin, so I have to change my stroke and brush up on every single shot resulting in more errors on my part.

It seems like anything under 2000 is at a permanent disadvantage against short pips, especially on the BH.

How can I play against SP players without increasing my own error rate?
May not be answering directly to you but more of a general statement.
1. With regards to how to play long / short / pips or junk oops, I mean errrr..... unconventional set-up, no matter how much of theory knowledge you have, if you rarely play against one, you will struggle against it due to unfamiliarity to it. Your muscle memory or autonomous response has not kick in yet.

2. If you play against them often, then just like playing against regular rubber, once muscle memory sets-in, these rubber are at your mercy because these rubbers are reactive to you and not vice-versa. Once you are familiar with their mechanism / physics, you'll have the way with them.

Extra commentary:
On the amateur scene, most of these pimple players are either the elderly folks ( majority ) who, understandably may have locomotion difficulty or plain lazy b4st4rds who are too lazy to learn how to spin and just rely on a crutch to gain cheap points. They prefer to use technology aka pimple this and that to create an advantage. Any amateur player will struggle with these advantage until they reach a certain level where OP suggested 2,000 level.

Whatever the number may be, once the amateur player reach that maturity, they form a certain pattern or muscle memory that can counter these pimple effectively. I am speaking from personal experience and at the amateur level and from my vantage point.

In my personal experience on what works against these pimples are:
1, Long fast dead ball ( no-spin ) serve into their pimple side and then smash the dead returning ball till kingdom come.
2. Slow and heavy loop and watch them struggle with the block. Pips are strong against fast low loop but weak against slow heavy loop. This, is what I mean when I say a pips player is a passive player i.e., at the mercy of the inverted rubber player.
3. Pips is very afraid of no spin ball. They need your spin to counter against you. If you do not give them spin, they will have difficulty generate spin on their own and most of the ball will find the net.
4. Point Nos. 3 is moot if the player is very good player who knows how to twiddle with the inverted side and generate spin.
5. If the pips player is of higher level than you, then just play and take it as a learning experience.
6. I have had a lot of play time with pips player recently, so the memories are very fresh with me.
 
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says Buttefly Forever!!!
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long pips and short pips rubbers should not be regarded as same................
My bad, my bad... in my eagerness to share my escapade with my recent many liaisons with long-pipster, I have forgotten to discern amongst them ( long vs short ). I offer my sincerest apology.
 
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1- valid against both SP and LP: don't try to take the ball too early. its easier to wait after the top of the bounce and the ball to go down (but not below the table) and spin it. so watch carefully the ball to time it correctly. It may help to go back half a step compared to your usual line if you usually play close to the table. the wrong timing is what causes most mistakes on my side.

2- their long pushes will be often fast and no spin, try to spin it. when you're a bit close to the table don't panic and go back but make a forward swing

3- everyones got their favorite tactic / serve. serving long with backspin (and sometimes upspin to confuse them) can be a good idea, the ball will come back with little spin so attack it strong forward to the FH next. if you don't really like their pips, serve half long to the middle or short to FH.

at all cost i would avoid to serve short to their SP or LP side. their pips make it easy to flick those balls or to make an agressive push
 
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Either way you go, you will need to keep playing against that material and play style. This is true for all material and play styles that trouble you. it is an opportunity to learn and grow better, you will certainly be better down the road if you apply yourself, learn, fail, learn, adjust.
 
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Short pips aren't very good at actually reversing the spin. They are good at rolling back spins to be your top spin. In other words, getting back chopped balls and back spin pushes shouldn't be too much of a problem

Not all SP are the same. There is a lot of difference between 802 and 802-40. 802-40 can generate some spin. 802 mostly just kills spin but can still roll back spin..

When playing against a SP player, keep the ball low and deep. The ball will bounce up only about 80% of the height of the ball at its highest point. If the ball is lower than the top of the net, the SP player will need to hit the ball up to get it over the net and not too fast to keep it from going off the table. The Magnus effect will be low so the SP player will be relying mostly on gravity to land the ball on the table.

Top spin loops are effective if you keep the ball low. The top spin should cause the ball to jump out low and fast after the bounce.

My Tuesday practice partner plays with 802-40 1.8 mm on his BH. His killing shot are flat hits that have little if any arc but are low, deep and fast to my BH.
 
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Short pips aren't very good at actually reversing the spin. They are good at rolling back spins to be your top spin. In other words, getting back chopped balls and back spin pushes shouldn't be too much of a problem

Not all SP are the same. There is a lot of difference between 802 and 802-40. 802-40 can generate some spin. 802 mostly just kills spin but can still roll back spin..

When playing against a SP player, keep the ball low and deep. The ball will bounce up only about 80% of the height of the ball at its highest point. If the ball is lower than the top of the net, the SP player will need to hit the ball up to get it over the net and not too fast to keep it from going off the table. The Magnus effect will be low so the SP player will be relying mostly on gravity to land the ball on the table.

Top spin loops are effective if you keep the ball low. The top spin should cause the ball to jump out low and fast after the bounce.

My Tuesday practice partner plays with 802-40 1.8 mm on his BH. His killing shot are flat hits that have little if any arc but are low, deep and fast to my BH.
Agreed.
Friendship 802-40 mystery III is my favorite SP, lightly boosted I was surprised the amount of spin i could create, no need to twiddle.
 
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1- valid against both SP and LP: don't try to take the ball too early. its easier to wait after the top of the bounce and the ball to go down (but not below the table) and spin it. so watch carefully the ball to time it correctly. It may help to go back half a step compared to your usual line if you usually play close to the table. the wrong timing is what causes most mistakes on my side.

2- their long pushes will be often fast and no spin, try to spin it. when you're a bit close to the table don't panic and go back but make a forward swing

3- everyones got their favorite tactic / serve. serving long with backspin (and sometimes upspin to confuse them) can be a good idea, the ball will come back with little spin so attack it strong forward to the FH next. if you don't really like their pips, serve half long to the middle or short to FH.

at all cost i would avoid to serve short to their SP or LP side. their pips make it easy to flick those balls or to make an agressive push
1. This is a mixed bag and I like the "not below the table" caveat. I think it you are a good hitter, it is better to take the ball as early as possible but give the pips player what you give and them and if you are spinner, just don't wait for the ball because it never comes out as far as a kicking topspin ball would.

2. Give yourself time to adapt. The biggest issue when playing against a pips opponent is that you are not used to the ball and you will loop balls long and into the net until your brain adjusts. Don't beat up yourself, expect to lose the points and find the right stroke to attack with because when you find the stroke/angle, you can spin the ball more aggressively.

3. Play your strategy consistently and look for ways to mix it up. If you can spin really heavy and slow to the pips, it will slide off the pips and give you points.
 
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@NextLevel ofc if you can get the SP ball early and attack strongly its good, but OTOH, its less easy, you need to move fast, you have less time to execute, and less time to react if the ball is coming back again etc...

IMO, the more important thing is to find out what works out for yourself and not change tactics every match or find yourself not knowing what to do everytime you see a pips player. There is not a single good answer.
 
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The other thing I forgot is to play more with the wrist and fingers. People who dont know how to generate their own spin tend to struggle against pips players as they are too dependent on the opponent. If you know how to catch the ball and spin it, you tend to be able to stay consistent in rallies.
 
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The other thing I forgot is to play more with the wrist and fingers. People who dont know how to generate their own spin tend to struggle against pips players as they are too dependent on the opponent. If you know how to catch the ball and spin it, you tend to be able to stay consistent in rallies.
i've struggled a long time putting spin to my FH, i wasn't using (purposely)the wrist at all. Its something I've fixed finally in the last year and got an extra lvl of spin.
 
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The use of fingers to whip the bat from leverage off of the bottom of the fat part of your hand is something people rarely discuss or explore... but it is hugely important in the final part of the whip of the bat and adds a LOT of extra spin to your shot.

I have very small, fat stubby short hands, but I can leverage them well and time the work of the fingers, I think those with large hands (and maybe a longer handle on the blade) can whip it even more than me potentially.

Exploring how to use the fingers during goof-off explore time is a good thing.
 
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I have played forehand short pips for atleast 15 years. From my experience:

- long serves and pushes. Difficult to smash and hard to do high quality loops
- vary placement
- vary tempo
- half long balls

With short pips you want to hit the ball at the highest point to be able to smash. If i need to move alot this is very hard. It is also a lot about timing, much smaller marginal for error compared to backside, so playing against someone with the same tempo is a dream and really the opposite if they vary the tempo.
Half long slow balls are pretty difficult to smash since we need to move forward fast, so many times we have to lift these balls. Falck have trouble with these balls.

When a short pimple player can not hit the ball at the highest point and need to lift the ball we are in some real trouble.

Good luck.
 
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I think the
I have played forehand short pips for atleast 15 years. From my experience:

- long serves and pushes. Difficult to smash and hard to do high quality loops
- vary placement
- vary tempo
- half long balls

With short pips you want to hit the ball at the highest point to be able to smash. If i need to move alot this is very hard. It is also a lot about timing, much smaller marginal for error compared to backside, so playing against someone with the same tempo is a dream and really the opposite if they vary the tempo.
Half long slow balls are pretty difficult to smash since we need to move forward fast, so many times we have to lift these balls. Falck have trouble with these balls.

When a short pimple player can not hit the ball at the highest point and need to lift the ball we are in some real trouble.

Good luck.
I think the stuff Lula listed is the best thing one can do.
I recently ,few days ago, had a league match against a guy who plays short pips on both sides all his life. And varying tempo, spin, depth was totally screwing him over. Since his backhand is much more dangerous I tried to avoid it so this is even working if you only target one side of the opponent in my case the FH.
What helped me a lot is that I served him half long and long balls with spin or no spin and he could open up with short pips but he was very uncomfortable and I could control him after that.
I knew I was doing something right when he was annoyed and was talking trash.

And the most important thing that no one mentioned before yet, all of you need to hold on to your knickers really tightly! Take a lesson from the Chairman and GRAFT, one needs to never give up, move their legs and put everything back on the table.
 
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at all cost i would avoid to serve short to their SP or LP side. their pips make it easy to flick those balls or to make an aggressive push

I operate on the opposite principle. I have a lot of spin on my serve and I show that right away, then I change the spin severely, along with placement and depth and vector.

My serve sets up my offense, especially vs those dreaded OX LP players. It is SUPPOSED to be a big mistake to serve with any amount of spin to OX LPs, but I find for me, it is ESSSENTIAL.

Of course everyone will need to probe opponents and figure out what works and then adjust to adjustments.
 
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There is a classic article by Samson Dubina - Various Game Styles - describing how to play against different typical playing styles which I have found quite useful on many occasions. I even carry a printout in my bat wallet. :)

Here is the section on what to do against short pips

Amanda the Short Pips Attacker
What she wants to do:
Amanda wants to play quick attacks over the table. No matter if she attacks first or not, she wants to finish the point with quick, off-the-bounce attacks. She often serves long, looking to smash your weak return.

What you need to do:
You need to serve short OR serve long if she doesn’t attack the long serve. The KEY - don’t open with an initial soft attack. If you attack soft, she will pips-out counterattack and put you running on your heels. Either attack strong and deep in the last four inches of the table OR push deep. If you attack deep, the slight spin reversal and trajectory reversal will give the pips player a difficult time keeping the ball low. If you push heavy and deep with good placement, then she will roll the ball up, which is easy to counterattack. This is the reason there are very few short pip attackers in the top one hundred in the men’s world rankings. When you loop wider angles, the pips player may have to move back from the table. The pips ball will have a very short trajectory; it is almost impossible for your opponent to attack consistently well from off the table.

1. Attack strong and deep
2. Push deep
3. Counterattack her weak opening
4. Loop deep and spinny (last four inches of the table)
5. Play wide angles
6. Try to push her back from the table


Another more detailed post, with a somewhat click-baity title, is here - Devastate the Short Pips Attacker

TLDR: Knowing what to do is the easy bit. Being able to execute it is completely different story and requires lots of practice.
 
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It depends on your own abilities though. If the opponent can attack your serves with SP and you are not able to block/counterattack them, then you should serve more often long, dead or with underspin. This way, they will more likely have more errors and will start play more safely.
And if they start chopping those serves you can easily attack them.

I for myself usually play with heavy underspin halflong-long to their pipside. It doesnt matter what happens next because the ball will have slight topspin or will be dead. In this category i dont even need to change technique and i will topspin the shit out of the ball. If the opponent has a good defense you need to hit harder and/or place the ball into harder spots as Der_Echte already mentioned.

Besides that i would advise to abandon the backhand if possible. Your forehand usually gives more security against everything a sp player can bring up, especially if they are chopping.
If you are too slow you can moreso attack with weaker loops this way and create shorter and more awkward loops. many many players struggle against these kind of shots.
 
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