How to return underspin against underspin with anti?

[blahness]

So i was fooling around with my anti setup. Super easy to change up spin, but i was wondering if it was possible to return a push that was actually still underspin off a heavy underspin serve or pretty much that is impossible? I know some LP players when they push against underspin, it can still be underspin and rather heavy (for eg if you watch some Joo Se Hyuk matches). If I can actively vary this I feel like my anti play is gonna be even more sick

 

[haggisv]

You'll need some grip on your anti to do this. Which anti are you using?

 

[blahness]

You'll need some grip on your anti to do this. Which anti are you using?

Butterfly Super Anti. It does have some grip, i can actually do topspin vs topspin just like regular rubber and reverse the spin at will. But underspin vs underspin is almost beyond me, I cant figure out how to contact it for the life of me. All my pushes regardless of how fast I swing at the ball come out as topspin (which is crazy looking and probably will get a lot of points) but Im curious to see if it is possible to actually return an underspin, same like what I do against topspin

 

[haggisv]

I don't have much experience with that one, but it's almost frictionless so it's not going to have enough grip to create heavy backspin. Best option would be to learn to twiddle, so you can create heavy backspin with your grippy inverted.
Of course backspin is what you want from your opponent when using this rubber, so you can block it back aggressively to awkward spots to setup your forehand.

 

[lodro]

often returning balls with no spin at all is enough to confuse the enemy
and that would be achievable even with a anti- rubber, right ??

 

[blahness]

I don't have much experience with that one, but it's almost frictionless so it's not going to have enough grip to create heavy backspin. Best option would be to learn to twiddle, so you can create heavy backspin with your grippy inverted.
Of course backspin is what you want from your opponent when using this rubber, so you can block it back aggressively to awkward spots to setup your forehand.

But i can do topspin vs topspin? If it doesnt have grip im pretty sure that would also be impossible...

 

[haggisv]

With topspin you're digging the ball into the rubber harder, so you're more likely to get a bit more grip which can produce some topspin (won't be much either).

Regardless, neither are percentage shots and will take a lot of practice to get proficient. So while it's fun to experiment and can win some cheap points at times, it will be less effective when you play stronger players.

 

[blahness]

With topspin you're digging the ball into the rubber harder, so you're more likely to get a bit more grip which can produce some topspin (won't be much either).

Regardless, neither are percentage shots and will take a lot of practice to get proficient. So while it's fun to experiment and can win some cheap points at times, it will be less effective when you play stronger players.

I feel like the easiest and highest percentage shots are spin reversal shots like looping an underspin push or chopping down a topspin or countering topspin (which results in underspin). It was also silly easy to flick an underspin serve (the heavier it is the easier it is to flick). Even banana flicks worked easily.

For eg topspin vs topspin i really have to use my body and hit it very strongly with good timing with the brush from my fingers. I can actually get decent topspin with this tbh. Not an easy shot by any means. It is not like with inverted, even if I do nothing much it is gonna go out with decent topspin. But the cool thing is that i can actually contact the ball flat and fake followthrough as if Im brushing the ball, this looks like topspin but in reality it is producing underspin. I saw the Indian LP team also using this stroke.

But i feel like it should be possible. My friend who is using LP can in fact chop it so that it stays underspin (off an underspin shot). I feel like he is also impacting it quite hard with it, it is not a thin brush stroke.

 

[blahness]

often returning balls with no spin at all is enough to confuse the enemy
and that would be achievable even with a anti- rubber, right ??

I dont even know how to do that, it will always reverse the spin?!

 

[zeio]

From my experience playing against anti players, they have to make a big and/or hard stroke to produce moderate spin - e.g. use a chop to achieve a push.

 

[blahness]

From my experience playing against anti players, they have to make a big and hard stroke to achieve it. Use a chopping stroke to produce moderate backspin on a push.

Is it more an angled hit rather than brushing? I tried brushing very hard on the push and in fact it produced even more topspin lol...

 

[zeio]

Both. You have to dig into it. Think H3 with an oxidized topsheet, but with an even deader sponge.

 

[lodro]

Think H3 with an oxidized topsheet, but with an even deader sponge.

This is called a : "" Polished leather "" 😁

 

[blahness]

Both. You have to dig into it. Think H3 with an oxidized topsheet, but with an even deader sponge.

Hmm will have to watch some videos. I saw the guy playing Fang Yinchi being able to do that. Fang Yinchi was super surprised that it had backspin still.

 

[allencorn]

With the grippy antis to produce your own spin you need to engage the sponge. Just brushing won'r do it, you have to hit hard enough to sink into the sponge - then the slight grip of the rubber can produce your own spin. That's why counter looping is possible. Tough to do on a push, but can be done. Not sure the payoff is worth the effort.

 

[zeio]

Here are 2 by WRM where the chop is used to push back a push. You can see the moderate backspin makes the ball double bounce. In the 2nd one, it is explained the chop stroke must dig into the ball and lengthen the contact by brushing.

The Ultimate Guide: 10 Must-Try Anti Backhand Techniques[Table Tennis]
https://youtu.be/FM-8LoSB0dI?t=111
3 Essential Backhand Push Variations with Anti Rubber[Table Tennis]
https://youtu.be/LFB8_viczYU?t=364

 

[yoass]

Twiddle.

 

[blahness]

I actually figured out a bit on how to do this. So usually with inverted BH push technique i usually push with open angle. But if you push with open angle it will spin reverse because of slippage. So what is required is actually a push maybe around 45 deg angle and the force must go downwards and forwards and then wrapping under the ball by pronating hard. One good way to train this is to see if you can serve BH straight underspin serve with anti. Once you can get the timing to generate decent underspin with the movement then it is possible to use it to return underspin with the push. Not easy definitely but doable. And then ppl will be confused af because sometimes it is spin reversed and sometimes it is not.

 

[blahness]

often returning balls with no spin at all is enough to confuse the enemy
and that would be achievable even with a anti- rubber, right ??

No, i want to utterly confuse and disgust my opponents. Lol...