How would you define a Pro?

[Tony's Table Tennis]

When we talk about pros, we normally think of the elites.
But what about if we go to the border line - those that are border pros, like a semi pro or maybe even amateurs.
This is similar in all sports, so not unique to table tennis.

Give you an example - South Africa's rugby national team, they are all pros, they have a high level, and they earn good money playing the sport. Taiwan's rugby national team is considered amateurs, despite, they are national team and play internationally - they all have full time jobs.

Same with basketball, South Africa's basketball is considered amateurs when compared to those from European teams - both in terms of level and income.
Most "amateur" national team sports, do not earn income playing the sport, and would need some sponsor/donation or to get a full time/part time job to get the sport going or even self fund.

Case study for consideration - who is the pro and who is not:
A player in 3rd bundesliga in Germany, plays table tennis full time, is a decent high level, has not play international, but earns income playing table tennis.
Compared to a South African national player or New Zealand national player, that play some internationals (in Africa or Oceania, or commonwealth games etc) but does not earn any income for playing. At most, only earning tournament prize monies - but most of the time, the prize money is not even close to the minimal income bracket.

So how would you define a table tennis pro, that are not of those elites we know of?

A) some one who plays internationally?
B) some one who has played in the Olympics?
C) some one who is are very high level (note, playing at the olympics does not mean you are automatically a high level)?
D) some one who makes an income playing the sport (salary)?

I am not sure if there is a E or F, but please do add on if you feel there should be more to the above 4.
and then of those, which do you think is a fair definition of a "pro" in your own view.

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

Supporting information from ChatGBT on pro, semi pro and amateur pro (very interesting read)


A professional sports person (or professional athlete) is an individual who engages in sports as their primary occupation and earns a living through participation in competitions, endorsements, sponsorships, or related activities. Unlike amateurs, professional athletes typically receive financial compensation for their performance, training, and participation in events.

Key characteristics of a professional sports person include:

1. Monetary Compensation – Earns income from salary, prize money, sponsorships, or endorsements.
2. High-Level Competition – Competes in elite leagues, tournaments, or events.
3. Training & Commitment – Dedicates significant time to training, coaching, and physical conditioning.
4. Regulatory Compliance – Follows the rules and guidelines set by governing sports organizations.
5. Recognition & Rankings – Often ranked or classified based on performance at national or international levels.

A semi-pro (semi-professional) athlete is a sportsperson who competes at a high level but does not rely entirely on sports for their income. Unlike fully professional athletes, semi-pros often have other jobs or sources of income while still receiving some financial compensation for their participation in sports.

Key Characteristics of Semi-Pro Athletes:

1. Partial Financial Compensation – They may earn money from competitions, sponsorships, or clubs, but not enough to make it their sole livelihood.
2. High-Level Competition – They compete in structured leagues, tournaments, or events, but typically at a level below full-time professionals.
3. Balancing Work & Sports – Many semi-pro athletes have other jobs, businesses, or careers outside of sports.
4. Varied Commitment Levels – While they train seriously, their schedules may not be as demanding as full-time professionals.
5. Pathway to Professionalism – Some semi-pro athletes aim to transition into full-time professional sports, while others participate for passion and supplemental income.

The term "amateur pro" is not a widely recognized classification in sports, but it can sometimes refer to athletes who compete at a high level while maintaining an amateur status. It can also describe someone transitioning from amateur to professional status.

Possible Meanings of "Amateur Pro":​

1. Highly Skilled Amateur – An athlete who competes at a near-professional level but does not accept prize money or sponsorships to maintain amateur status.
2. Transitioning to Professional – An athlete who is on the verge of turning professional but has not yet fully committed or signed contracts.
3. Competes Like a Pro but Unpaid – Someone who trains and competes as seriously as professionals but does not receive financial compensation.
4. Limited Compensation Rules – In some sports (e.g., Olympic sports), certain athletes may receive sponsorships or stipends while still being classified as amateurs.

 

[avi3230]

As Mr. Quadri Aruna says "Hobby player" most of us are 😆

 

[Gozo Aruna]

A pro is a person who is engaged in that activity / sports with commercial gain ( read: monetary ). He could be a coach ( e.g. Wang Hao ), a player ( e.g. Ma Long ), a spoke person ( Adam Bobrow ) or a brand ambassador ( Waldner ). He derives his aggregate income primarily or wholly or the largest portion of it from such engagement.

Me ( Hobby Player )? I am in for the IG / Tik-Tok / YT posing like this dude below:

This is a win for me.

 

[PenHoldSandro]

Anyone who plays internationally, consistently.

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

Anyone who plays internationally, consistently.

Consistently - I guess that is indeed important, but if you are rich, and of very low level and have a national federation that is happy to enter you into international tournaments and you can fly overseas with your parents money and loose every single match as your level can't match those overseas.
would that still count as a Pro in your example?

 

[PenHoldSandro]

Consistently - I guess that is indeed important, but if you are rich, and of very low level and have a national federation that is happy to enter you into international tournaments and you can fly overseas with your parents money and loose every single match as your level can't match those overseas.
would that still count as a Pro in your example?

Huh... I never thought of that.

Anyone who plays internationally, consistently and the government isn't corrupted

 

[pong99]

Huh... I never thought of that.

Anyone who plays internationally, consistently and the government isn't corrupted

Wally Green, I think he was around 2300 or so and played in many ittf events. Interesting guy who had enough money to travel the world and have fun. Not a pro.

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

Wally Green, I think he was around 2300 or so and played in many ittf events. Interesting guy who had enough money to travel the world and have fun. Not a pro.

I forgot about Wally Green.
My TPE national team friends (coaches) asked me how is it possible when they ran into Wally in some of the ITTF World Tours as they called it back then.

I said, every federation is different, haha.
some federation, if you ask them to enter for you, then you a globe trotter.
so I personally don't regard those who play internationally, a pro.

 

[longle]

A) some one who plays internationally?
B) some one who has played in the Olympics?

I think A and B are not necessary, since in poor country like us, players don't have many chances to participate internationally (only some competitions in Asia, yes)

C) some one who is are very high level (note, playing at the olympics does not mean you are automatically a high level)?
D) some one who makes an income playing the sport (salary)?
Regulatory Compliance – Follows the rules and guidelines set by governing sports organizations.
Recognition & Rankings – Often ranked or classified based on performance at national or international levels.

Those 4 points are the keys of being a pro IMO

 

[latej]

I am not sure if there is a E or F, but please do add on if you feel there should be more to the above 4.
and then of those, which do you think is a fair definition of a "pro" in your own view.

@Tony's Table Tennis would you say Shi Heng Yi is a PRO? Cheers...

EDIT: I know you asked about TT players. I've expanded... Forgive me...

 

[Takkyu_wa_inochi]

I guess I'm a semi-pro, the other day i got 1000 yens (7$) finishing 2nd of a tournament

 

[Gozo Aruna]

I guess I'm a semi-pro, the other day i got 1000 yens (7$) finishing 2nd of a tournament

no, not even enough to buy a sheet of used Rozena. Pathetic!

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

I guess I'm a semi-pro, the other day i got 1000 yens (7$) finishing 2nd of a tournament

how much was the food?

 

[Takkyu_wa_inochi]

how much was the food?

even for the guy who finishes first in this particular tournament, it doesn't cover the participation fees... lol...

food is quite cheap in Japan ! for 1000 yens you still can get a good rice bowl or noodle bowl in Central Tokyo and even have come change (depending on the place)

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

even for the guy who finishes first in this particular tournament, it doesn't cover the participation fees... lol...

food is quite cheap in Japan ! for 1000 yens you still can get a good rice bowl or noodle bowl in Central Tokyo and even have come change (depending on the place)

at least you had something to feed the tummy haha

 

[thisisit]

a pro is someone who practices their profession(some field in which they had training) in exchange for remuneration. it has nothing to do with skill, place, time, duration or anything else.

because most pros are better at their profession than most non pros that try out doing activities that make up the before mentioned profession and the vast majority of the best practitioners of an activity are pros, most people wrongly concluded that a pro means someone who is good or very good at something.

so next time you call the plumber and he does a bad job and you realized you could have diy-ed your plumbing problem much better than him while at the same time cheaper, don't think of him as not being pro. he is a pro, just a bad one.

 

[Zezima]

not sure why this is worth discussing instead of keeping it very simple. Anyone who makes a living out of it basically. There is just many different kinds of pros depending on the level and where they play.

 

[NetProphet]

When we talk about pros, we normally think of the elites.
But what about if we go to the border line - those that are border pros, like a semi pro or maybe even amateurs.
This is similar in all sports, so not unique to table tennis.

Give you an example - South Africa's rugby national team, they are all pros, they have a high level, and they earn good money playing the sport. Taiwan's rugby national team is considered amateurs, despite, they are national team and play internationally - they all have full time jobs.

Same with basketball, South Africa's basketball is considered amateurs when compared to those from European teams - both in terms of level and income.
Most "amateur" national team sports, do not earn income playing the sport, and would need some sponsor/donation or to get a full time/part time job to get the sport going or even self fund.

Case study for consideration - who is the pro and who is not:
A player in 3rd bundesliga in Germany, plays table tennis full time, is a decent high level, has not play international, but earns income playing table tennis.
Compared to a South African national player or New Zealand national player, that play some internationals (in Africa or Oceania, or commonwealth games etc) but does not earn any income for playing. At most, only earning tournament prize monies - but most of the time, the prize money is not even close to the minimal income bracket.

So how would you define a table tennis pro, that are not of those elites we know of?

A) some one who plays internationally?
B) some one who has played in the Olympics?
C) some one who is are very high level (note, playing at the olympics does not mean you are automatically a high level)?
D) some one who makes an income playing the sport (salary)?

I am not sure if there is a E or F, but please do add on if you feel there should be more to the above 4.
and then of those, which do you think is a fair definition of a "pro" in your own view.

Professional athlete: to be engaged in your specified activity as one's main paid occupation rather than as a pastime.

Wall Green or the Taiwan Rugby team wouldn't fit this.
I assume the Taiwan Rugby team are part time, as were all rugby teams before the 90's (except NZ maybe..)
Which brings about another category, part time professional.

But full time pro is pretty clear to me.

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

not sure why this is worth discussing instead of keeping it very simple. Anyone who makes a living out of it basically. There is just many different kinds of pros depending on the level and where they play.

I think it is important to have a neutral understanding of what is Pro
since we all have an idea on what is beginner, and what is intermediate
In fields like teacher, doctor, lawyer, we all have an idea that they are in that profession and should have correct training + remuneration.
but table tennis pro? well, I personally think many are confused on how to classify it.

Some people say they are Pros, but in all reality, are they Elite, or Pro, or Semi Pro, or Amateur Pro.

I personally feel playing level (skills) + full time job (remuneration) should be the 2 main checklist to determine a pro.
normally with such playing level, remuneration is possible - ie playing professional in Europe and the higher the level, the higher the remuneration