Impressions from my club: How badly do you want to win?

[doppelmoral]

Let me share a recent story from my club with you. I am curious what you all think about it.

I am playing in a team and the season is almost over. Our standing is good so it looks like we will climb up a division if we keep up our performance, but its gonna be close.
Purely by chance, a really skilled player joined our club last week. He is easily top2 in our club, and he has a TTR score of 0, since his country doesnt use TTR system.

So, my club had the chance to put him into any team since he had 0 TTR. Of course they didnt put him into the first team, but in my team, the third one. That way, he has the possibility to play for the 1. , 2. and 3. team every week, where he will win every game easily (its 1500-1800 TTR). This is already destroying the integrity of the sport and competition entirely, and we are all amateurs playing for fun , but who cares right?

Now, an interesting situation has arised. The 2. and 3. team (my team) will play on the same day soon. Our team leader suggested that we have to reschedule, so that the new guy can carry the 2. team, and our team on another day. That basically means that if the new guy is not available, we will immediately reschedule and our former 6th player (a team consists of 6 players) will never have any chance to play again. He has been with us for the entire year, entire season, and now he is basically kicked out. The new guy has been with us for less than a week. This also means that the 6th player of the 2nd team, and the 6th player of the first team are being kicked so that he can play every game for every team

This is being justified by it all being for a 'greater cause', and being a 'good team member means to only care about teams perfomance'. To be honest, I am fuming. I would get it if this was about money,sponsoring, anything. But we are hobby players . Btw, I think my favourite part is once we climb to the next division, he will leave the club so we will play with the former team setup again and we will probably get completly farmed.

Also, even if we make it to the next division, it feels completely undeserved, pointless and unrewarding since we got carried. We actually have a shot to make it by ourselves but got denied so I dont even feel any motivation anymore to play LOL

Basically, my club is just abusing the system. The system is flawed so these kind of things are possible.

So, how badly do you want to win? Do you agree with this approach?
Imo, it would have been better to put him into the first team, atleast he has to try there a bit. Also, he would be allowed to only play for the first team then aswell.

 

[Tyce]

What a bunch of asshats. I'd find a better club

 

[NetProphet]

That is truly unfortunate.
I fully understand your annoyance at it all, I don't think I'd be able to stand for that without saying something.
I would ask the other team members of they feel the same and if any of them have the balls to approach the coach with you to talk about this. Hopefully some of them will and 3 or 4 of you can take it to him.
I'd also tell the new guys that he's not welcome to just arrive into your team to play leagues beneath his level and if he's agreeing to this nonsense then he needs to boost his ego somewhere else.
That would be my approach anyway...

 

[ThePongCommenter]

Are you sure there are no financial or other incentives for why your club would want to win the league or move up a division?

 

[latej]

I don't see it is a problem at all. In fact, I'd be happy to be in such situation. Now I hardly make the team together, and e.g. on Sunday we gonna play in 3 instead of 4...

Similarly, getting to a higher league - whatever the means - even if this strong player helps - may be good for you, you'll play a year/season with stronger players, have good matches...

It's just a viewpoint... There doesn't have to be anything immoral... Cheers.

 

[jk1980]

Basically, my club is just abusing the system. The system is flawed so these kind of things are possible.

So, how badly do you want to win? Do you agree with this approach?

The german system and regulations are stupid and broken, tbh.
This short term "we can get all our teams promoted" is not really "fair play" to the others and indeed using the "cheat" to field a non-classified player until his QTTR is fixed and demanding you to place him in the correct team (if no SPV is used).

I have just been made aware of an even worse situation also due to the stupid german regulation.
There is a club that has 6 teams. 5th and 6th team both play in the lowest league possible which has players ranging from 850 to 1150 TTR. Now what did the club do ? they fielded a player with 1700 TTR and 1400 TTR in the 5th team. They can do it by using something like a "Sperrvermerk" (SPV) which means that player can be placed in that team circumventing the need to field players based on their rating. Usually you are not allowed to field a player with 1700 TTR in team 5 if team 4 (which should be better/higher) has players with only 1200 TTR in them. So this SPV basically enables you to put that player in the lowest league. The only "downside" for that player is that he is not allowed to "help out"in the higher teams.

It is obvious to anybody in the league that this undermines the "fair play" aspect of the game totally. The other teams can not win against this team, because they play in a competation where only 4 players are needed. They play two doubles (where they split up the 1700 and the 1400 TTR) so they have one doubles team with 1700 and 1150 TTR players and the other team with 1400 and 1200 TTR which they virtuall all win obviously. So it is already to points they win automatically every match. Then add to the 2 solo matches each of the two top players play and you have another 4 points already. So they have an automatic 6 points lead already. they basically can not lose like that.

now you could say "hey, just endure that one season and this team will get promoted", but i was told that the league that they play in does not promote the first team, so they will stay in that league.

This regulation is really stupid but there are obviously older players trying to justify it with stories from yesteryear.
Somebody told me "back in the day the league games for higher league XY were only played on the weekend and if the player could not play on weekends then he would have stopped to play totally". Tough luck, if you can't play league games when they are set to be played, this is on you.

The reasoning why this 1700TTR guy is playing in that lower league is because he wants to play with his son who is now at about 1200 TTR. That is all fine and well and of course a father would like to play with his child, but what is the self esteem of the child if he only won the league with his father being 5 classes higher than the rest of the league.

If we would say everything that the regulation allows is fair game then i could just change my official gender entry to woman and play in the lowest soccer league with my daughter and score 10 goals every game. I bet that would be a very special experience for the other female players in that league trying their best and my daughter would be very proud of that achievement.

 

[z0uLess]

Yea, there is a lot of dumb situations out there. I play in three leagues and in one of them there is a player that is playing three divisions below his level, which is the only team we are not able to beat (two seasons now), because of him, and so we are not allowed to advance. We have four league matches with 10-0 so far this season.

 

[SofaChamp]

In our amateur leagues we ask clubs to put new players in what they think are the correct teams. If a player is placed in a low team he is not allowed to play up until his playing strength is known.

 

[NetProphet]

These stories are so annoying and it seems there are lots of them.....
It always amazes me how people will do this, both the coaches and the infringing player, to play in a league that they are clearly far too strong for, and think it is fine.
You can meet selfish and narcissist types without remorse everywhere and usually it is that type of person who dies it because anyone with a shred of decency just wouldn't do it.
It's unjust and you'd have to be morally bankrupt to even suggest it.
So I often see it as a duty to stand up to that type of behaviour because it thrives on the silence of the people who know better.

I want to play with my Son is the worst one.
What a shitty father he is, teaching his son that the rules don't apply to them.
Recipie for disaster in life. Best thing for that kid would be to see his old man called out on it, called a cheat and kicked out of the league. That would be a great lesson for him and everyone else.

Our club 'accidentally' did it in a lower league this year. I almost left when I heard about it but I was assured it was a mistake as they didnt know how good the new player was. While I found this almost impossible to believe I just let it go.
But weeks later I heard the same player had played again. 😔
Players from the other club team he played against were asking me questions about it the following week, I just told them I knew nothing about it (which was true). Am halfway through my own league so I'll keep going but I won't be at that club nxt yr.
It's embarrassing to be associated with...

 

[yamagata]

Are people paying to watch the best team play? If so, the coach has a point to field the best team possible. If no one pays or expect to see this high level player, I would say it is crooked behaviour. The players that started the season and agreed to play in that team should finish the season. If someone is unavailable, somebody from the lower level should be promoted temporarily, if no such one exist, someone from higher level can fill in.

We have to challenge the thought that the higher skilled player should play, which is common in all sports regardless of level. Why cannot the most loyal ones be selected first? Or the ones that think it is most fun? Or the ones that are in need of development? Or the best team mate? Or any other criteria that does not involve skill.

 

[latej]

We have to challenge the thought that the higher skilled player should play, which is common in all sports regardless of level. Why cannot the most loyal ones be selected first? Or the ones that think it is most fun? Or the ones that are in need of development? Or the best team mate? Or any other criteria that does not involve skill.

So the higher skilled guy happens to play a match against me and I say: "He's polishing his ego.".

WTF.

That is the thought I want to challenge. If someone does it, I call it a bad choice. If I do it, I call it a weakness. Cheers ;-)

 

[TackyForehand]

He needs to be ranked to play. If not by the TTR system, then by an approximate rating by the club. Placing him in the wrong division destroys enjoyment for everyone. It also wastes his time from his short stay, forcing him to play weaker players.

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

I really can't imagine being the player forced to play people that many levels lower. To me, it is absolutely boring to try and play competitively against players I should be able to beat with my left hand. It makes no sense to me why someone would let themselves be used like that. I'd rather not play if I was playing vs people where there was absolutely no challenge involved in ALL the matchups.