Is body type giving any form of advantage?

[SleepyMaster]

I am not that strong a player, but anyone who says I am average is revealing their experience with table tennis.

For me good level of play starts

Without getting too personal, this is the moment you showed yourself to be very inexperienced in table tennis.

You may be an experienced sportsman, fitness person, athlete - Whatever else you may have done…..

But as far as table tennis is concerned, you’ve just shown that you are either here to troll, or you are incredibly deluded.

Just some things to point out…..

* Lack of video of you or your “coach” - Despite playing as much as you claim?

* If your coach is beating you easily with his wrong hand, that says a lot about your level rather than the coaches.

* Watching NL’s videos and thinking the play is “average” is a very clear sign you’ve not been around table tennis long.

Most match play (even to a high level) doesn’t look great on camera. It’s being able to spot the subtle things like spin, touch that allow you to see what sort of level a player may be at.

It’s not about the crazy highlights or super fast forehand to forehands that people “think” is a high level……

Forums like this are very inclusive to those who respect the sport and members who post.

But they are also quite unforgiving to those who are just hear to stir up trouble.

I’d encourage you to post video of your level, as I’m sure you’d be an inspiration to us all if you have achieved a very high level after just 1 year of training.

Oh, sure, tell me more about this game please. I have trained side by side with youth national team. I trained with Pesotskaya, she is a pro player and bronze Euro medalist. My coach name is Oleksii Kim, you can find the games on YouTube of his son - Petro Kim, he is an ex national level player and now full time coach in Abu-Dhabi. Of course what can i know about the unbelievable level of you guys have. Otherwise, actually the one, who didn’t have the respect is you. What makes your opinion more important, the thing that you wrote 10000 posts? Why i need to prove something to a guy, that are playing in 3d league of their country and looking like a donut? I have higher standards to what i will call “strong game” I never said that i achieved that “higher level”, but i will. And for now, my level would be enough to get a win over the person, which upload the video and that’s it.
As i already told, i will upload some training footage and a game, if i want to do so. Not because you are asking me

 

[NDH]

For me good level of play starts

Oh, sure, tell me more about this game please. I have trained side by side by youth national team. I trained with Pesotskaya, she is a pro player and bronze Euro medalist. My coach name is Oleksii Kim, you can find the games on YouTube of his son - Pavel Kim, he is an ex national level player and now fool time coach in Abu-Dhabi. Of course what can i know about the unbelievable level of you guys have. Otherwise, actually the one, who didn’t have the respect is you. What makes your opinion more important, the thing that you wrote 10000 posts? Why i need to prove something to a guy, that are playing in 3d league of their country and looking like a donut? I have higher standards to what i will call “strong game” I never said that i achieved that “higher level”, but i will. And for now, my level would be enough to get a win over the person, which upload the video and that’s it.
As i already told, i will upload some training footage and a game, if i want to do so. Not because you are asking me

You are missing the point entirely.

No one will believe you until you can prove your claims.

Did you know I beat Ma Long when he was a junior? And that I’ve trained with Shaolin Monks to perfect the art of the running forehand topspin?

That’s how ridiculous this all sounds…..

But you do you mate, if you don’t really want to contribute positively to the forum, you’ll just get ignored…..

Either way, good luck with the table tennis in future.

 

[SleepyMaster]

You are missing the point entirely.

No one will believe you until you can prove your claims.

Did you know I beat Ma Long when he was a junior? And that I’ve trained with Shaolin Monks to perfect the art of the running forehand topspin?

That’s how ridiculous this all sounds…..

But you do you mate, if you don’t really want to contribute positively to the forum, you’ll just get ignored…..

Either way, good luck with the table tennis in future.

How Tibetian or Shaolin monks correlate to real pro players, national players that i have mentioned? Where there connection is?

I do contribute positively only, but you “well known members” of this forum acting too arrogant, as for the regular TT players that you are, while you even didn’t see me playing. Liking each other posts, back and forth - it’s so funny actually. If you would be more polite to new members, it would be better for the perceiving of a “positivity”, that you wish another members should represent.
Anyway, have a good day and good luck on the table 🏓🙂

 

[NDH]

How Tibetian or Shaolin monks correlate to real pro players, national players that i have mentioned? Where there connection is?

The connection is that both my statement and your statement are incredibly unlikely, and people won’t believe them unless evidence can be provided.

I think you’re missing the point about how useful it would be to the entire community if you could provide evidence of your ability, and how quickly you’ve managed to learn…..

Learning TT as an adult is very hard, so I’m sure people would be appreciative of your input…..

If you decide not to, which is absolutely your choice, just don’t expect people to believe you in future - I’m not saying that in a mean spirited way, it’s just a fact.

As for the “liking” of posts - I personally like a comment if it’s useful to the conversation.

It’s a way to show others (at a quick glance), which comments are useful and worth reading.

I couldn’t care less who wrote them - NL had provided valuable information to this thread, with context, explanation and videos.

If you did the same, I’d like your posts as well.

 

[NextLevel]

How Tibetian or Shaolin monks correlate to real pro players, national players that i have mentioned? Where there connection is?

I do contribute positively only, but you “well known members” of this forum acting too arrogant, as for the regular TT players that you are, while you even didn’t see me playing. Liking each other posts, back and forth - it’s so funny actually. If you would be more polite to new members, it would be better for the perceiving of a “positivity”, that you wish another members should represent.
Anyway, have a good day and good luck on the table 🏓🙂

It is entirely understandable that if you train with national level players that you don't think there is anything special in the above average amateur level. Hopefully you will share some of your training so we can put your comments in proper context.

For the original post, I have provided multiple examples of big guys playing good table tennis and we could add some ladies as well. Table tennis is aerobic activity so it isn't easy to train many hours and gain weight or muscle. But some people do when they stop training or exercising and they don't lose all their skills, many remain really good. I think that is the experience of everyone here.

Most people have to put in significant training hours with the off hand to get really good at it, very few players can reach a good level with their off hand, usually it is a major injury that forced training with that hand that built it up. Even Timo Boll can't really play with his off hand. So your coach will be an interesting exception.

 

[SleepyMaster]

It is entirely understandable that if you train with national level players that you don't think there is anything special in the above average amateur level. Hopefully you will share some of your training so we can put your comments in proper context.

For the original post, I have provided multiple examples of big guys playing good table tennis and we could add some ladies as well. Table tennis is aerobic activity so it isn't easy to train many hours and gain weight or muscle. But some people do when they stop training or exercising and they don't lose all their skills, many remain really good. I think that is the experience of everyone here.

Most people have to put in significant training hours with the off hand to get really good at it, very few players can reach a good level with their off hand, usually it is a major injury that forced training with that hand that built it up. Even Timo Boll can't really play with his off hand. So your coach will be an interesting exception.

Yeah, i see big guys, and woman’s that are playing on a good level, in my gym everyday. I have respect for them. Actually half of our youth national womens team, little bit overweighted. And all the guys are pretty fit. My humble opinion, is that they will perform better, with lesser weight.
As for the left hand of my coach, believe me, it’s ridiculously how good he can play with it some times. He surprised many players with it, since when they get an invitation to play with a left hand - they taking it like some kind of a joke. But his left hand is no joke, really. He can serve all the serves with it: sidespin, downspin, no spin, short/long. Pendulum/backhand/tomahawk. He can do very good hooking sidespin loop, when you giving a ball to his left, good smash as well. He can block, pretty stable, giving you back 4-5 balls after good quality topspin’s. Very stable serve receive. Most guys, can’t even serve one type of a serve with good level of spin, or doing quality loop with other hand. Plus he is very good at changing pace, and spin on the balls. All it in one - makes his left hell of a task sometimes. Good serving leftie is always not an easy task.
But of course it’s beatable. Since it not that fast or powerful as his right hand. You just need make no mistakes on receives, and execute very good third balls, and be able to continue your attack with more than one or two/three balls. Because they will comeback with stability

 

[Manto76]

One of the things I most enjoy about TT is that people of all shapes and sizes can play, have fun, and potentially be very good.

I played at a very high junior level when I was a teenager (I think there are quite a number of people on this forum who have a similar history), and now I play very casually in the 1st division of my local league. I can say from experience of both situations that body shape makes very little difference.

I remember players that I competed with as a youngster (some of whom went on to play at Olympics, World Champs, Commonwealth Games, etc.) and some of them were visibly "athletic" in their natural build/condition. Others looked more like rugby players than TT players. You would not have been able to guess their TT abilities by comparing body shape/type/condition.

Same now in my local league (which includes some of the highest ranked veterans in the UK). Some look like natural athletes, some look like potatoes, and others somewhere in between. I assure you, you would not be able to guess which are the better TT players based on body type.

One player I know well is probably the strongest TT player ever to play the game. He used to be in the top 3 powerlifters in the world in his weight category, and has broken several strength records. Looking at him, you would not guess he'd be any good at TT at all, but he also happens to be quick as a rabbit, and has superb hand-eye coordination. Even though he's well past his prime now, he's still a very good TT player even though he's built like a brick - lying on its side!

 

[Dominikk85]

I think generally not being fat is an advantage. Most top players are anywhere from very thin to athletic build, probably like 65 to 80 kilograms or so.

However I think it matters mostly at the highest level. In Germany there is (was?) An extremely overweight player (not like 20 kilos overweight but like over 150 kilos) and he played in the third highest German league (probably like 2200 points or so). His weight certainly made him a worse player but he still was able to beat like 99% of all players.

It's better to be fit but biggest factor is technique and playing ability

 

[NextLevel]

I think generally not being fat is an advantage. Most top players are anywhere from very thin to athletic build, probably like 65 to 80 kilograms or so.

However I think it matters mostly at the highest level. In Germany there is (was?) An extremely overweight player (not like 20 kilos overweight but like over 150 kilos) and he played in the third highest German league (probably like 2200 points or so). His weight certainly made him a worse player but he still was able to beat like 99% of all players.

It's better to be fit but biggest factor is technique and playing ability

Being fit is a factor in chess as well. Very few here would argue that it is necessary to be fit to play good chess. Being fit just helps with a log of things, from breathing to stamina and sometimes strength. But the fitness demands of table tennis are very different from those of soccer or tennis. Serve return and the block can take you reasonably far even if you are not athletic and you cant say the same in football or tennis (though of course, one must be careful not to conflate adiposity with fitness).

 

[SleepyMaster]

L

Being fit is a factor in chess as well. Very few here would argue that it is necessary to be fit to play good chess. Being fit just helps with a log of things, from breathing to stamina and sometimes strength. But the fitness demands of table tennis are very different from those of soccer or tennis. Serve return and the block can take you reasonably far even if you are not athletic and you cant say the same in football or tennis (though of course, one must be careful not to conflate adiposity with fitness).

Usually people that play flat, and mostly from block, didnt have good serve receive. Especially they bad on heavy sidespin/topsins ones, or shirt no spin servers. Because they either trying to cut it, or receiving it with some sort of blocking move - that leads ball to pop up high or out of the table. For receiving such serve you need to have decent feeling on brushing, and working with a rubber. But there are an exceptions, among such type of player as well - like national level defensive players with pips, for some example. One guy, really good defender who played with pips, from our gym, almost beat Andrej Gacina, and he mostly played flat. So it depends 😁

 

[NextLevel]

Usually people that play flat, and mostly from block, didnt have good serve receive. Especially they bad on heavy sidespin topsins or shirt no spin ones. Because they either trying to cut it, or receiving it with some sort of blocking move - that leads ball to pop up high or out of the table. For receiving such serve you need to have decent feeling on brushing, and working with a rubber. But there are an exceptions, besides such type of player as well

Everything is relative to level, even Ma Long and Waldner don't topspin all the time. So someone who plays flat will not play flat all the time, but they will use it to make their lives easier. You don't have that blocking option in tennis. Even He Zhi When doesn't block all the time.

 

[SleepyMaster]

 

[SleepyMaster]

Everything is relative to level, even Ma Long and Waldner don't topspin all the time. So someone who plays flat will not play flat all the time, but they will use it to make their lives easier. You don't have that blocking option in tennis. Even He Zhi When doesn't block all the time.

Perfectly - you need to have all strokes in your arsenal. But in reality everyone playing and improving from his stronger, gifted by nature abilities. Some one better with two wing looping, and some blocking. Another one fast, and hard blocking, chopping with pips, or going antispin. TT can be so different, and this is cool 😎

 

[SleepyMaster]

Everything is relative to level, even Ma Long and Waldner don't topspin all the time. So someone who plays flat will not play flat all the time, but they will use it to make their lives easier. You don't have that blocking option in tennis. Even He Zhi When doesn't block all the time.

If we taking bout pros and very strong players, they can do everything. But amateurs are more often stiking to one strategy. Blockers just blocking almost with no spin all the time, and mixing it with cutting. But they are good one of a partners, that making you work on stability and accuracy of a topspin, since sometimes giving you back a lot of balls

 

[NextLevel]

If we taking bout pros and very strong players, they can do everything. But amateurs are more often stiking to one strategy. Blockers just blocking almost with no spin all the time, and mixing it with cutting. But they are good one of a partners that makes you work on stability and accuracy of a topspin, since sometimes giving you back a lot of balls

Even pros don't do everything, but this is going away from the main question. Topspin is the dominant style but the main thing that the pros do is win matches. What you need is solutions and solutions at one level may or may not work at another level but it is rarely about doing everything.

The main point is that people who aren't very athletic can play good table tennis if they can do things *that score points* well.

 

[brokenball]

(un?)fortunately you can even play high level if you are quite unathletic it seems

this is a german with TTR of >2100

The big guy has a powerful BH, covers his pocket well and has a good enough FH. He gets low enough. He just wouldn't make a good chopper but then he has found his niche and plays it well.

People curse my reach. However, I have trouble covering my pocket like the guy in the video because I get to tired to get low.

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

.... I saw how you play, you will be the one who loses to the left hand of my coach too. Actually i see that i can get win over you as well. .....

I am not going to get in the middle of the discussion. I have not seen you play. I have seen NDH play. I know what his level is. I have seen and played vs NextLevel. I know his level. I also know his play is deceptive because when his ball hits your racket you can't believe how much spin it has on it and how heavy the ball feels, like a baseball is hitting your racket instead of a TT ball.

Sometimes there are things that are more than meets the eye in table tennis. It is different than a lot of sports that way because of how much spin and touch, how you touch the ball, is such a determining factor.

Now, I have not seen you play and you are newer to the forum. But I will say, if you are going to say things like the quotes above, about how you can beat someone you have never played in person, then, you actually need to go out and get footage of you playing a match and post it.

You really can't be saying stuff like that on the forum without showing your level of play.

There is a reason for that.

But I am looking forward to seeing you post footage of you playing a competitive match.

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

I still don't want to get in the middle of the conversation. I think there are two sides and I think it is complicated.
This is the WTTC Finals in 2013 between Zhang Jike and Wang Hao. The winners are placed as #1 and #2 in that years World Table Tennis Championships. So, not top 10....top 2:

Wang Hao struggled through a decent amount of his career with his weight. And in 2013, he gained a bit. I would say, he lost about 20-30 lbs in the 2 months before this tournament. Because a few months earlier, he was notably heavier and still winning. But, even in the WTTC finals that year, he was quite a bit out of shape.

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

I think, two points:

1) Everyone seems to be in agreement that, no matter what level you are at, being in better physical condition is a good thing.

2) Where it seems the contention is coming from is that some of you guys are emphasizing that one of the complex things about table tennis is, that, because spin plays such an outsized role in the sport, that someone who is not in such great shape can still end up playing at quite a high level despite the fact that he/she is not in such great shape, regardless of how that happened. That, the skill aspect of the game is such a large factor that, someone who could never be a good level 5 tennis player (my understanding is that a level 5 tennis player is equivalent to a 2200-2300 USATT Rating player in table tennis), could be a 2200-2400 level player in Table Tennis. Because of how much, the way you touch the ball and the subtlety of the skill of touching the ball is a factor in TT, someone who is in fairly bad shape can still be quite high level.

Is that right? Does everyone agree on #1?

Is number 2 a point of contention? Is it not the case that someone who is not in good shape but has very good touch and feel for the ball can be quite a good table tennis player? Is that not the case?

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

Here are two videos I like to show about how table tennis can be deceptive.

These two guys really don't look very good if you don't know what you are looking at:

Neither player looks that good to the untrained eye. But at the time, both of these players had a rating of approximately 2300.

Here is Richard playing someone else at the same tournament:

At the time Adam was about 2500. I think at his highest he may have gotten up to 2700 but he definitely got to 2600+. Rich may not look good but man, he has amazing touch and is good at driving good players nuts.

Would he be better if he was in good shape? Most definitely. I believe, when he was younger and went to Sweden to train for a year, not only was he in good shape, but he was, at that time, a two winged looper. I could be wrong about this. But, I remember being told that. So, yes he would be better if he was in better shape. But man he is still outrageously good especially for the fact that he really does not move too well.