Is body type giving any form of advantage?

[UpSideDownCarl]

What is the point, Table Tennis can be deceptive.

Sorry, I did not want to be in the middle of this. Hopefully I did not get in the middle and just was trying to cut the baby in half like King Solomon.

There are good points on both sides. But it is impressive how good someone can be even when they don't have the physical skills.

 

[NDH]

Is that right? Does everyone agree on #1?

Is number 2 a point of contention? Is it not the case that someone who is not in good shape but has very good touch and feel for the ball can be quite a good table tennis player? Is that not the case?

I didn’t want to say anything else on this really, because the whole topic has had WAY more conversation than it really deserves.

From my POV, yes, fitness helps.

But it’s only at the very top end where it really has a tangible advantage.

2 players can be of equal skill level, with one being very unfit, and the other being extremely fit.

The unfit person may benefit their TT by becoming fitter, but I would argue that it’s relative to the level they play at.

A very bad player becoming fitter would still be a very bad player, and I don’t think they’d see an improvement in their table tennis, just because they were now fitter.

A very good player becoming fitter would potentially improve their ability due to the increased fitness, and the fact their skill level is already high.

The videos that have been shared are great examples of the different shapes and sizes that TT players can be, whilst still playing at a high level.

 

[NextLevel]

I think, two points:

1) Everyone seems to be in agreement that, no matter what level you are at, being in better physical condition is a good thing.

2) Where it seems the contention is coming from is that some of you guys are emphasizing that one of the complex things about table tennis is, that, because spin plays such an outsized role in the sport, that someone who is not in such great shape can still end up playing at quite a high level despite the fact that he/she is not in such great shape, regardless of how that happened. That, the skill aspect of the game is such a large factor that, someone who could never be a good level 5 tennis player (my understanding is that a level 5 tennis player is equivalent to a 2200-2300 USATT Rating player in table tennis), could be a 2200-2400 level player in Table Tennis. Because of how much, the way you touch the ball and the subtlety of the skill of touching the ball is a factor in TT, someone who is in fairly bad shape can still be quite high level.

Is that right? Does everyone agree on #1?

Is number 2 a point of contention? Is it not the case that someone who is not in good shape but has very good touch and feel for the ball can be quite a good table tennis player? Is that not the case?

We all agree more than we disagree. It just became an ego battle because the goalposts changed as someone had argued you had to be fit to be a top ranked player and confused that with that you had to be fit to play high level table tennis. That's partly why I posted the Doran video, the role of fitness in TT is not always about single match performance but about being able to play many matches and trainings at a high level. But lots of unfit (looking) guys have single match performance levels that can be interesting.

Rich is a case in point, he is not a top player player but he has beaten Damien Provost in an unrated match. So do we say he is incapable of top play or more likely that his lack of athleticism makes it harder for him to be consistent?

In any case we all agree more than we disagree

 

[Dominikk85]

How Tibetian or Shaolin monks correlate to real pro players, national players that i have mentioned? Where there connection is?

I do contribute positively only, but you “well known members” of this forum acting too arrogant, as for the regular TT players that you are, while you even didn’t see me playing. Liking each other posts, back and forth - it’s so funny actually. If you would be more polite to new members, it would be better for the perceiving of a “positivity”, that you wish another members should represent.
Anyway, have a good day and good luck on the table 🏓🙂

I understand how you feel about older members sometimes being a bit snarky but I also understand they are put off by a guy playing for one year explaining them the game of table tennis.

I also have played a lot of other sports before table tennis but really that doesn't mean much in the world of table.


If you have played for one year you are treated like an advanced beginner even if you put in more effort and you have more athletic talent than other beginners.the exception to this would be posting videos of you but otherwise you are just seen as a beginner.

I can actually understand how you feel here. I have coached very good players in another sport and that can make you think you can transfer that skill to the sport of table tennis but I think table tennis is kinda different.

I think Table tennis is kinda in between a classic sport and a skill game like pool billard or darts.

I mean most pros at the very top are fit but that is such a small group, if you look at the sub pro level there are very different guys having success and most people don't understand how good those semi pro guys are as they might look pedestrian on video but if you face them they look very impressive.

That doesn't mean it isn't a good idea to get fit and healthy, it certainly is

 

[NextLevel]

I understand how you feel about older members sometimes being a bit snarky but I also understand they are put off by a guy playing for one year explaining them the game of table tennis.

I also have played a lot of other sports before table tennis but really that doesn't mean much in the world of table.


If you have played for one year you are treated like an advanced beginner even if you put in more effort and you have more athletic talent than other beginners.the exception to this would be posting videos of you but otherwise you are just seen as a beginner.

I can actually understand how you feel here. I have coached very good players in another sport and that can make you think you can transfer that skill to the sport of table tennis but I think table tennis is kinda different.

I think Table tennis is kinda in between a classic sport and a skill game like pool billard or darts.

I mean most pros at the very top are fit but that is such a small group, if you look at the sub pro level there are very different guys having success and most people don't understand how good those semi pro guys are as they might look pedestrian on video but if you face them they look very impressive.

That doesn't mean it isn't a good idea to get fit and healthy, it certainly is

I can fully accept that he might be the odd exception to the adult learner curve. After all, he claims he has been able to train with high level players almost full time for a year. But I have seen enough people troll and lie about such stuff on the internet that it is best to allow them to demonstrate it. I know the players he is talking about, Pesotska has played Lily Zhang a lot. She has a big traditional backhand, and good backhand serves.

But a lot of TT wisdom and humility comes from experience. One example - it is easier to learn to loop backspin with a slower blade and softer rubber (especially if not sticky) or sticky rubber so you have time to hold the ball if you use fast arm action. So it is always funny to see someone using a faster blade with fast rubber afraid to loop backspin. In fact it was one reason why I stubbornly refused to use a carbon blade consistently. But I decided one day that I was good enough it didn't matter so much but I am facing some pips players again and thinking about it. It is the players who give you balls you need to spin that make you think about whether tou should be using fast equipment.

So when I see someone struggling to loop backspin and using a fast blade, I recommend that they slow the equipment down. They may not listen but I am sharing my experience. Someone may have a completely different experience. And that is okay. But some people make up their experiences and then do not explain where they came from.

All the advices I gave you on forehand counterhit and topspin were many of the things I had to relearn when I cleaned up my technique in 2015. I wasn't telling you stuff that i saw Ma Long doing, I was telling you stuff i had tried and some things that worked and didn't work for me. You didn't have to listen you could have gone your own way. Or you could go copy someone who is telling you to hit how Ma Long hits who has no experience fixing their stroke.

Be careful who you follow - it has consequences. The least you can do is ask someone to explain why you should listen to him and to give some proof of success.

 

[blahness]

Zhu Yi is well known as one of the highest level amateur and he is fat and unfit lol

 

[brokenball]

One example - it is easier to learn to loop backspin with a slower blade and softer rubber (especially if not sticky) or sticky rubber so you have time to hold the ball if you use fast arm action.

How do you "hold" a ball?
When the ball is in contact with the rubber it doesn't just sit there.
I know how but it isn't practical or legal in a game.

 

[Kopp]

Zhu Yi .. he is fat and unfit lol

IDK. He has a triangle or oval-shaped of body, but I think he's neither fat nor unfit. How could someone play like that & beat a world top 10 if he's unfit?

IMHO.

 

[Gozo Aruna]

I didn't know that having a not so ideal athletic body type is a hindrance to Playing good TT. I need to inform my body that.

Btw I met a badminton player in my contingent and she said she has no idea how to play TT and she is what you would say is having the ideal athletics body built. So, having a awesome body and you can still sucks at TT and vice-versa.

 

[NextLevel]

How do you "hold" a ball?
When the ball is in contact with the rubber it doesn't just sit there.
I know how but it isn't practical or legal in a game.

The fact that you put "hold" in quotes tells me you know this is a trolling question. Post video of your loops vs backspin and then we can have this discussion. Otherwise, understand that language is full of metaphors and learn from this video (if you ask the video creator questions about physics, you have lost the point):

 

[NextLevel]

IDK. He has a triangle or oval-shaped of body, but I think he's neither fat nor unfit. How could someone play like that & beat a world top 10 if he's unfit?

IMHO.

While I agree that signs of adiposity or even looking thick without adiposity is not the same as being unfit, he might be heavier than coaches would ideally like him to play at. But in one match, he can beat good players because playing at the top in ranked tournament play is more than just about beating top players. You have to enjoy the training and the pressure as well and keep yourself immune to losses from the upcoming players.

 

[blahness]

IDK. He has a triangle or oval-shaped of body, but I think he's neither fat nor unfit. How could someone play like that & beat a world top 10 if he's unfit?

IMHO.

He has just incredible ball feeling and technique especially the spin generation, momentum control (he knows how to make fast shots slow, slow shots fast, etc... in a way that maximizes landing percentages) and his placement is just insane.

He frequently beats CNT provincial level players which is actually quite crazy if you think about it - he's higher level than many countries' pro players.

 

[SleepyMaster]

Guys, let me tell you the whole story.
When i first came in my club and had a few training with my coach, i saw there was an group of an amateurs playing with average experience of 4 to 10+ years, all of them are his students, plus some other players occasionally cames, sometimes national or pro level, but only because coach is asking them. I have asked can i join to them? The coach said - no, you are too weak. I told him, that I’m master of sport, but in different ones. He told me - this is not a boxing, not mixed atrial arts, so my progression would take long time. Several years, maybe even more. I said him, that i would be playing in this group much faster, and will be one of the best in a year. He just kindly smiled on such a quotes from newbie, and repeat - no, you wouldn’t. So for me understandable, why you so sceptical about it.

Most of amateurs from those group training was about: two times a week with coach for an hour, some sparring games, and one tourney at the end of the week. No serve practise at all.
I did 5 times week 3+ hour with coach, practice matches, some time two times a day. And a lot of serving practise (almost every day) and a tourney as a 6th day of my training week. And it’s about for a year. Other than that i did two strength training in a week as well. As i said to my coach - than i should keep my promise.

If to be honest, I played TT when i was really young kid too, friends of my family, was a TT family where all playing this sport. Father and his older son was on a pretty good national level and much older than me, daughter were not so good and about my age, but again with good technique and everything. I played a lot with here when i was a boy. Maybe it takes some part in the question of my progression.

But as i said, coach invited me to a group in month, and after 8 months, i was among best players of it and constantly winning on them. Does it was an easy to do? No, absolutely. Sometimes when i woke up at 6am at Saturday, the day of a tourney, after whole week of a drained trainings, my body and mind telling me - dude, just stay in bed with your wife. But i still getting up, and going to it. Because i have feeling like i should, if i want to prove my own words that was given to a coach.

To summarise it, there is no direct answer to what exactly was the reason of me improving. Maybe my dedication to trainings, maybe playing with technically correct players when i was a boy, maybe my athletic coordination given by other sports that i did for whole life. But the point is, there is always an exception, and hard work plus good fitness is always pays off and helping you to progress. I’m not a troll, or some kind of an idiot. I have respect for all of a members for this forum, and i will upload some games for the reason, of you can be seeing the whole picture. Wish you all have a nice day, my internet TT buddies 🏓💪

 

[SleepyMaster]

Even pros don't do everything, but this is going away from the main question. Topspin is the dominant style but the main thing that the pros do is win matches. What you need is solutions and solutions at one level may or may not work at another level but it is rarely about doing everything.

The main point is that people who aren't very athletic can play good table tennis if they can do things *that score points* well.

They maybe don’t do in the game, but they can do almost everything in training. While playing they doing that, what needed to be done to win a point

 

[NDH]

Guys, let me tell you the whole story.
When i first came in my club and had a few training with my coach, i saw there was an group of an amateurs playing with average experience of 4 to 10+ years, all of them are his students, plus some other players occasionally cames, sometimes national or pro level, but only because coach is asking them. I have asked can i join to them? The coach said - no, you are too weak. I told him, that I’m master of sport, but in different ones. He told me - this is not a boxing, not mixed atrial arts, so my progression would take long time. Several years, maybe even more. I said him, that i would be playing in this group much faster, and will be one of the best in a year. He just kindly smiled on such a quotes from newbie, and repeat - no, you wouldn’t. So for me understandable, why you so sceptical about it.
Most of amateurs from those group training was about: two times a week with coach for an hour, some sparring games, and one tourney at the end of the week. No serve practise at all.
I did 5 times week 3+ hour with coach, practice matches, some time two times a day. And a lot of serving practise (almost every day) and a tourney as a 6th day of my training week. And it’s about for a year. Other than that i did two strength training in a week as well. As i said to my coach - than i should keep my promise.
If to be honest, I played TT when i was really young kid too, friends of my family, was a TT family where all playing this sport. Father and his older son was on a pretty good national level and much older than me, daughter were not so good and about my age, but again with good technique and everything. I played a lot with here when i was a boy. Maybe it takes some part in the question of my progression.
But as i said, coach invited me to a group in month, and after 8 months, i was among best players of it and constantly winning on them. Does it was an easy to do? No, absolutely. Sometimes when i woke up at 6am at Saturday, the day of a tourney, after whole week of a drained trainings, my body and mind telling me - dude, just stay in bed with your wife. But i still getting up, and going to it. Because i have feeling like i should, if i want to prove my own words that was given to a coach.
To summarise it, there is no direct answer to what exactly was the reason of me improving. Maybe my dedication to trainings, maybe playing with good players when i was boy, maybe my athletic coordination given by other sports that i did for whole life. But the point is, there is always an exception, and hard work plus good fitness is always pays off and helping you to progress. I’m not a troll, or some kind of an idiot. I have respect for all of a members for this forum, and i will upload some games for the reason, of you can be seeing the whole picture. Wish you all have nice day, my internet TT buddies 🏓💪

The thing is, I don’t think anyone would disagree with a lot of what you say.

But there is much more context to it than it would seem.

I know MANY amateur players who have been playing for 20+ years, and still play in the lower divisions of the sport.

A Junior (or even an adult who trains 6 times a week and has multiple coaching sessions), would surpass their level in a very short time frame - Likely much less than a year.

So it’s impossible for us to know the level of those amateur players you are talking about, and descriptions are just impossible to comprehend unfortunately.

Given your background in TT, I think it’s far more understandable that you’d improve quickly, especially given how much you said you played.

It’s a shame we can’t see what you were like before, because then we’d really see what an improvement you’d made which would have been very cool!

Either way, anyone playing as much as you is 100% going to improve quickly.

I would say your athletic ability and fitness was only a help in allowing you to play as much as you did. A less fit person probably wouldn’t have been able to.

Which is clearly a very good argument to get fitter! 😊

Looking forward to seeing your videos!

I will say that practice makes people look MUCH better than they are in a game.

Gameplay for most people just looks a bit slow and poor, even when the standard is VERY high.

I’ve seen some players who look like Ma Long when practicing, but as soon as the game starts, their standard is MUCH worse!

I’m sure you’ve seen the video safe thread, so feel free to post it in there to stop stupid comments! 😊

 

[SleepyMaster]

The thing is, I don’t think anyone would disagree with a lot of what you say.

But there is much more context to it than it would seem.

I know MANY amateur players who have been playing for 20+ years, and still play in the lower divisions of the sport.

A Junior (or even an adult who trains 6 times a week and has multiple coaching sessions), would surpass their level in a very short time frame - Likely much less than a year.

So it’s impossible for us to know the level of those amateur players you are talking about, and descriptions are just impossible to comprehend unfortunately.

Given your background in TT, I think it’s far more understandable that you’d improve quickly, especially given how much you said you played.

It’s a shame we can’t see what you were like before, because then we’d really see what an improvement you’d made which would have been very cool!

Either way, anyone playing as much as you is 100% going to improve quickly.

I would say your athletic ability and fitness was only a help in allowing you to play as much as you did. A less fit person probably wouldn’t have been able to.

Which is clearly a very good argument to get fitter! 😊

Looking forward to seeing your videos!

I will say that practice makes people look MUCH better than they are in a game.

Gameplay for most people just looks a bit slow and poor, even when the standard is VERY high.

I’ve seen some players who look like Ma Long when practicing, but as soon as the game starts, their standard is MUCH worse!

I’m sure you’ve seen the video safe thread, so feel free to post it in there to stop stupid comments! 😊

Yes, there are a lot of guys, that playing 10+ years and their barely can win a match from me. Usually they are little bit on the older side, and playing more flat blocking, cut every serve oriented tennis.

My style is a two wing looper, with a good variations of serve. I can do pendulum, reverse pendulum, backhand serves. Mostly prefer to serve side/top and heavy under for setup a third ball. And i have quality topspin’s, both wings. At my level, the main thing that I’m trying to improve now - is ability to continuously attack after third ball with stability. Because for now for mostly it’s like: one, two, three, and then mistake occur if the ball keep comeback. It depends on opponent for someone’s even one is enough, but those are not so well coordinated or experienced. Also im focusing on not too hit very hard, since it’s a nice feeling to get a straight winner but i get that spin, placement and stability is the key to improve further and will giving me abilities to win over stronger players.

The term of an advanced amateurs - this one girl that playing pro in Germany calling our squad, after playing session with us. But again when the pro coming, they just working on some stuff, serve receive and not giving like 110% of their abilities.

I saw the thread where people posting their game videos, and will take an eye on that. I hope i will be able to post something, since i didn’t have special equipment for recording, besides my iPhone 😁

 

[NDH]

Yes, there are a lot of guys, that playing 10+ years and their barely can win a match from me. Usually they are little bit on the older side, and playing more flat blocking, cut every serve oriented tennis.

My style is a two wing looper, with a good variations of serve. I can do pendulum, reverse pendulum, backhand serves. Mostly prefer to serve side/top and heavy under for setup a third ball. And i have quality topspin’s, both wings. At my level, the main thing that I’m trying to improve now - is ability to continuously attack after third ball with stability. Because for know for mostly it’s like: one, two, three, and then mistake occur if the ball keep comeback. It depends on opponent for someone’s even one is enough, but those are not so well coordinated or experienced. Also im focusing on not too hit very hard, since it’s a nice feeling to get a straight winner but i get that spin, placement and stability is the key to improve further and will giving me abilities to win over stronger players.

The term of an advanced amateurs - this one girl that playing pro in Germany calling our squad, after playing session with us. But again when the pro coming, they just working on some stuff, serve receive and not giving like 110% of their abilities.

I saw the thread where people posting their game videos, and will take an eye on that. I hope i will be able to post something, since i didn’t have special equipment for recording, besides my iPhone 😁

I think an iPhone is all you need (it’s certainly all I’ve ever used!) 😃

A cheap stand/tripod from Amazon helps as well.

One thing I think we’ve all ignored is the actual desire to improve.

Of the 100’s of players I know, I would say less than 50% actually want to improve.

Of those who do, the vast majority are already good players.

It seems the vast majority of lower level players are simply happy to play - They don’t care about equipment, or training, or improving/coaching.

They just enjoy the social and competitive side of playing the game at their own pace.

If you have the desire to improve, you’ll already have a huge advantage over these players!

As for what you are looking to improve, I think that consistency is something that most good players are constantly trying to get better at.

There’s an ex commonwealth games player who plays in my league.

He isn’t powerful, he’s not exceptionally quick, he’s not got crazy un-returnable serves.

But he’s extremely consistent, topspin’s the ball well on both wings, has good tactics and can produce a lot of spin.

You don’t need crazy power and speed to be very good at table tennis.

Control, consistency, spin, touch and tactics are so much more important!

 

[tomahawk11]

(un?)fortunately you can even play high level if you are quite unathletic it seems

this is a german with TTR of >2100

Thanks for sharing this video, somehow it is really inspiring to watch even as a pretty skinny guy.
This makes table tennis looks so effortless and calm.

 

[Gozo Aruna]

All these talk to & fro and still no visual. Come on man, we're at Page 4 already.

This is like dating a good looking gal / boy and all he she / he wants is talk and talk and talk, forever in friendzone.

Come on show us some skin, errrr... I mean some videos.

 

[SleepyMaster]

All these talk to & fro and still no visual. Come on man, we're at Page 4 already.

This is like dating a good looking gal / boy and all he she / he wants is talk and talk and talk, forever in friendzone.

Come on show us some skin, errrr... I mean some videos.

Amigo, i was played whole week, and yesterday for 3 hours, today is a rest day😏 plus i didn’t have any kind of tripod, because never had a reason to recording my matches. I have coach, training partners, and my own experience to analyze my gameplay. So it would take some time from me, to get a proper videos. We have a war in our country, so sometimes i can’t even train because, ruzzians destroying civilian electricity stations, and my gym didn’t have light. It is what it is 🫡