Is Harimoto's screams disrespectful to the opponent?

Is Harimoto's screaming disrespectful to the sport and to his opponents?


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Pre lockdown, I went and watched a tournament, there was about 16 tables in use, that’s 32 people playing at one time. So if both players were ‘chooing’ at the top of their voice for every point won, let’s say one ‘choo’ every 10 to 15 seconds per table the shouts of Cho, etc would be continuous!!!;););)

This is exactly how it is in Japan.
 
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I dont think anyone here is saying anything about what kind of a person he is. he can be the nicest person outside of the match for all i care. But for example if someone comes up to me during a match and punches me in the face thats bad, even if he is very humble after the match. So yes i do see his yelling as a negative. And simply the fact that the opponent isnt saying anything about it doesnt say anything. I know from myself if im irritated by something the opponent does and i say something about it im more focussed on that part instead of the match, therefore i dont say anything, doesnt mean i condone said action.

I don't understand how someone punching you in the face during a match and someone hyping themselves up by choing and otherwise acting respectful in the match is in any way comparable.

I think it matters a lot what kind of person one is both outside and in the match. If we know the reasons behind his choing (that they are not of bad intent), then it's easier to understand and accept it. If someone punched you in the face during a match, the reason behind it matters, right? In that case though, there better have been a damn good reason.

That the choing is annoying is another question. But the OP believed Harimoto shouts in order to intimidate and irritate his opponents. I don't think this is true.

I think things are a bit more complex than saying that some actions are bad without any context.
 
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Harimoto is undoubtedly an excellent player and fun to watch...his game is exciting and his talent is immense. Having someone like him in the sport is a very good thing.

Nobody can say for sure what his intentions are with his loud and constant "cho-ing". Nobody knows. Some players "cho" in order to have some sort of influence on the opponents state of mind. Others do it almost involuntarily. His intentions do not matter nor can we pretend to know what they are.

What we do know is that he is a role model for many youngsters in the TT world, whether he wants to be or not. The same can be said about other players like Timo Boll or Ma Long. Do we really want to have a whole generation of players "cho-ing" like Harimoto does? Or do we want players to behave more like Timo Boll, who is clearly respected by everyone with very good reason? If Harimoto is allowed to "cho" like he does, then every player at every different level at every tournament and league match should be allowed to do that.

I am not making judgements here. I am asking, what do we want for the future of this wonderful sport? In behavioural terms, there is a saying: "permitting is promoting". What do we want to promote? I am not a fan of censorship, but we need to think about this issue in terms of the big picture.
 
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Choing is simply a psychological release mechanism. Plus it forces you to take a deep breath afterwards. That's all there is to it - and players are doing it because this has obvious benefits which have nothing to do with being disrespectful to the opponent.


I bet the people who moan about choing in this and countless previous threads are the same people who moan about choing in local leagues/amateur tournaments/etc. Same people who get easily distracted by something happening on another table, by spectators purportedly talking too loudly or walking in their line of sight, etc.


Basically, all this is doing is giving a loud and clear signal to your opponent that you're easily distractable (in other words - mentally weak) and they will use it to their advantage. And so my advice to you - if you're serious about competitive table tennis - learn to ignore it.
 
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says toooooo much choice!!
says toooooo much choice!!
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Choing is simply a psychological release mechanism. Plus it forces you to take a deep breath afterwards. That's all there is to it - and players are doing it because this has obvious benefits which have nothing to do with being disrespectful to the opponent.


I bet the people who moan about choing in this and countless previous threads are the same people who moan about choing in local leagues/amateur tournaments/etc. Same people who get easily distracted by something happening on another table, by spectators purportedly talking too loudly or walking in their line of sight, etc.


Basically, all this is doing is giving a loud and clear signal to your opponent that you're easily distractable (in other words - mentally weak) and they will use it to their advantage. And so my advice to you - if you're serious about competitive table tennis - learn to ignore it.

PsyCHOlogical release!!!;);) This can be done without the volume being turned up!!

if you talked too loudly, kept walking about during play at a Professional match you’d be thrown out !!! Laughable !!!

Do you need to shout out ?? Is it really necessary??

Obviously for some it is. So is it correct to restrict the shouting? Or would this be against the players ‘Right’ to make a noise, and stopping this would adversely effect the player?? You could argue ‘LEARN’ to be a little less noisy!!!

The ‘grunting’ that players use during tennis, badminton and table tennis generally for hard / powerful strokes, I’ve been told has something to do with tensioning the core muscles?? And sometimes it just happens. The volume level can be an issue aka Sharapova.

I just think it’s being taken to extremes, and needs pulling back somewhat!!!
 
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If top athletes are so easily manipulated that an opponent celebrating points won causes them to be intimidated, I think we need to worry about the state of table tennis as an international sport.

Is being a social justice warrior snowflake about a kid revving himself up between points disrespectful to the sport and its top athletes? Is the manhood of our sport in jeopardy? I want to make a poll. :)
 
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Lol this thread and poll is not going the way the OP was trying to push it.

Some questions, if we are going to limit celebrations, then:

  • what is the punishment for excessive celebration?
  • how do you determine what is deserving of a yellow card?
  • how many decibels are acceptable?
  • what duration of the celebration is acceptable? 3 seconds? 5 seconds?
  • what frequency of cho-ing is acceptable?
  • what sort of points are considered worthy and acceptable of cho-ing on?
  • do we leave this all to a ref's judgment call if those above questions can't be answered, and end up with cho legality threads the way that we end up with serve legality threads?
 
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If top athletes are so easily manipulated that an opponent celebrating points won causes them to be intimidated, I think we need to worry about the state of table tennis as an international sport.

Is being a social justice warrior snowflake about a kid revving himself up between points disrespectful to the sport and its top athletes? Is the manhood of our sport in jeopardy? I want to make a poll. :)


You're missing the point: It doesn't really matter if the opponents are actually intimidated/irritated or not.
In fact it's not only about players only.

It's about fans as well and the sport in general. It's really annoying and disrespectful watching a player screaming and bending every single moment, like he's the possessed girl in the Exorcist...
 
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1. Most players shout "cho-le" after they've won a good rally, after they've won a critical point, after they've done a good serve that the opponent misread etc. So basically, there are only certain moments that plyers shout "cho-le".

Harimoto on the other hand, shouts IN EVERY SINGLE POINT right from the first point,regardless if he won the point or it was an opponent's unforced error.
That completely refutes the argument that "Harimoto shouts in order to hype himself". A player needs hyping in certain moments of tension, not all the time. If you do it all the time, it completely loses its meaning. It's like drinking Red Bull all day long instead of water, all day long... At some point it will have no effect....

Counterpoint: every point he wins is one step closer to winning the match. One could argue that is always worthy of celebrating. He does not cho on missed opponent's serves as far as I have seen, nor on lucky edges or nets for himself, and in fact he always apologizes for those.

2. Some people claim that Harimoto "is just a 16-17 year old kid" that goes up against "giants" and we should go easy on him.
I disagree. Harimoto is not just a kid and does not have the life of the average 17 year old kid. He is a professional athlete of the highest level, that has been trained from a very early age. he should respect the sport and his fellow athletes.

Fellow pro players and coaches around him are not very worried about it as has already been mentioned. You don't get to that level by being bothered and affected by such inconsequential things. So he isn't disrespecting his colleagues as you assert here. Unless you think he should listen to and follow the sugestions of online commenters?

3. I've heard the argument that "Since it is allowed by the rules, even if it is irritating for his opponents, why shouldn't he do it if it helps him"?
Well I'll tell you what: There are things that are allowed, but we don't do them out of respect for the others and for ourselves.

Everybody does it, it is just to different degrees. So you are really arguing over a very grey area of what is and isn't acceptable. A better question is how much would you let it affect you personally if someone on the other side of the world, who you don't know and have never met, and only can see videos of, does a thing that you don't like?
 
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I think that Harimoto is probably the only table tennis player who despite having such a illustrious career already is hated so much. He might be winning tournaments but he certainly seem to be not winning hearts. Reminds me of the scene from the Gladiator movie where the trainer tells Maximus to win the crowd and other things will follow.
 
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I think he is not disrespectful at all. I hated the screaming in the beginning, but noticed that he has toned it down. Now I only find it only mildly annoying - rather whatever. I actually find Ovtcharov's moaning during play much more annoying - to a degree that it is sometimes almost unwatchable.

As already mentioned in the thread, Harimoto seems very humble about everything he does. He is also very careful to not scream at his opponent, but turns away when doing this. A practice commonly seen in games like Tennis, where the players also are very careful to turn away when celebrating or looking at your coach etc.
 
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Harimoto:
  • Apologises for literally everything. He could hit a winner 10 meters clear of the opponent - never a chance he could get to it - and catch the slightest edge, won't scream, will apologise.
  • Actually looks like he's sorry every time he apologises. Can not say the same about a lot of players no one complains about on the forums.
  • Good solid handshakes after every game, regardless of the importance of the match and the opponent's behavior.
  • Never screams into the opponent's face. Never even makes eye contact, just turns away and screams his head off.
  • Is a teenager competing on par with some of the best players ever, has every right to be as hyped as possible.

Meanwhile, Harimoto haters:
  • Very often clueless about the manners themselves, rude, ignorant, classless. Will happily complain about Harimoto's supposed lack of respect and call him names in the same sentence. Absolutely unaware of the irony of the said situation.
  • Very sure that the etiquette they've been taught by some older bloke at a local club is universal and has anything to do at all with professional game. Spoiler: it's not.
  • Never reached 5% the success of Harimoto when they were teenagers nor ever after. Something tells me this explains a lot of the hate he gets, regular jealousy. People are annoyed that someone can be that good at 14, 15, 17 years of age while they can't land a forehand at 35.

In the end? Harimoto 11:0 Silly Haters :rolleyes:

Up to last year or so, I had heard SO MUCH noise about Harimoto and CHO that I had to check it out for myself.

Once I checked it out (saw a few of his matches), all I could think about is WHAT ARE THE HATERS HATING ON? My position quickly became one like Atlas Newton's.

Harimoto shapes up to me like a fiesty, respectful warrior. On hte scale of annying or disrespectful, you couldn't even put him in the middle of the pack, he is more respectful.
 
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Should Sharapova be disciplined also due to her screaming in tennis if we follow the same line of thinking??

They decided to address it at the junior level. They thought about how to do it at the senior level but couldn't separate the grunters like Serena Williams from the singers like Azarenka and Sharapova.
 
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