Japanese team are paper tigers?

This user has no status.
This user has no status.
Member
Dec 2019
20
18
45
2022 World Team Table Tennis Championships, Semi Final China 3-2 Japan, Harimoto won Fan Zhendong Wang Chuqin

When the Japanese team plays, especially the new generation, they are very strong at the second ball. They approach the table quickly and have great damage. If a new player meets them for the first time, they will certainly be psychologically disturbed and scared. This is like a tiger rushing at you, but you unconsciously avoid it. But when you really get to know them, you will see that most of this new generation are paper tigers, you can look at the way Shunsuke Togami played in his matches. But paper tigers are not scary, what's scary is that sometimes paper tigers turn into real tigers.

This match, the real tiger was Tomokazu Harimoto.

So how to distinguish between paper tigers and real tigers? That depends on the technical's depth of the player, A bit abstract but it is not difficult to understand. When comparing the characteristics of Shunsuke Togami and Tomokazu Harimoto, what they have in common is that they start fast, like to hit hard, and their contact points are quite forward. This is the reason why two players (Wang Chuqin and Fan Zhendong) do not dominate in the middle and long distances. You move away and want to use force but your opponent keeps sticking close to the table, he (Harimoto) takes a good position and hits you at every corners, you slow down, try to switch and push away from the table. jerk, but the opponent doesn't give you a chance to switch and continues to attack so there are only two outcomes: you lost or he lost.

Tomokazu Harimoto had the "first three ball" very well, leaving the Chinese team unable to do anything. His parents are Chinese, they have a deep understanding of this. So, after these first three balls, the Chinese team only has a 60-40 chance of scoring against him at most, but usually it's 50-50. You don't have much of a tactical advantage against Harimoto, like Xu Xin, Wang Chuqin and Fan Zhendong, their previous victories against Harimoto were rarely directly resolved in the first three balls. Basically, they have to be resilient and have to play very well to win.


View attachment 30797
 
This user has no status.
This user has no status.
Well-Known Member
Sep 2013
10,072
9,618
24,749
Read 3 reviews
TH is good, no doubt. The best non Chinese for the past 10 years.

But I think there is a few other pointers to add,

1) this is the weakest CNT for the past 20 years too
2) the expectation for FZD/WCQ/LSD is set too high, as the previous leaders - Ma Long, Zhang Jike (and even Wang Hao, Ma Lin, WLQ) are super stars and it is impossible to match.
3) the game has changed to 11 point / best of 5s, which has all reduce the gap of strength, and with current "draw" system, element of luck has also been more important.
4) Chinese TT resources scattered to all parts of the world - especially Japan, the biggest beneficiary of Chinese TT resources for over 30 years and counting. Japan also boosted by Tokyo 2020 budget boost for 15 players, given to 15 kids from the ages of 11~13 year olds.... this is unheard of)

So, while the world is improving a great deal, we can't forget CNT has weakened, not just by players, but also rule changes.

Is HT a tiger?
during 2022, yes for sure.
but also, FZD and WCQ showed vulnerability, of which we saw a lot more of it, in recent times.

the new WTT, has also fatigue players.
With CNT's "training style", this fatigues is still unknown on who "get hurts the most", we have seen fatigue with CNT, JNT, Taiwan, among others these few months.

It is known that Chinese players life span is shorter - ie over 30 years old, due to the hardship incurred in the younger years.
So, there is a chance, the new mandatory participation, among others, could fatigue CNT more than any country.

Never the less, the days of beating the Chinese, is getting nearer and nearer.
Can HT continue - i'm not sure, but the end of CNT dominance is clearer than ever before. or not?
 
This user has no status.
This user has no status.
Member
Dec 2019
20
18
45
TH is good, no doubt. The best non Chinese for the past 10 years.

But I think there is a few other pointers to add,

1) this is the weakest CNT for the past 20 years too
2) the expectation for FZD/WCQ/LSD is set too high, as the previous leaders - Ma Long, Zhang Jike (and even Wang Hao, Ma Lin, WLQ) are super stars and it is impossible to match.
3) the game has changed to 11 point / best of 5s, which has all reduce the gap of strength, and with current "draw" system, element of luck has also been more important.
4) Chinese TT resources scattered to all parts of the world - especially Japan, the biggest beneficiary of Chinese TT resources for over 30 years and counting. Japan also boosted by Tokyo 2020 budget boost for 15 players, given to 15 kids from the ages of 11~13 year olds.... this is unheard of)

So, while the world is improving a great deal, we can't forget CNT has weakened, not just by players, but also rule changes.

Is HT a tiger?
during 2022, yes for sure.
but also, FZD and WCQ showed vulnerability, of which we saw a lot more of it, in recent times.

the new WTT, has also fatigue players.
With CNT's "training style", this fatigues is still unknown on who "get hurts the most", we have seen fatigue with CNT, JNT, Taiwan, among others these few months.

It is known that Chinese players life span is shorter - ie over 30 years old, due to the hardship incurred in the younger years.
So, there is a chance, the new mandatory participation, among others, could fatigue CNT more than any country.

Never the less, the days of beating the Chinese, is getting nearer and nearer.
Can HT continue - i'm not sure, but the end of CNT dominance is clearer than ever before. or not?
Haha you have great understanding of CNT...
 
This user has no status.
This user has no status.
Active Member
Jul 2019
540
444
2,040
I used to think that the current japanese team might emulate Singapore but Sun Yang She and Wang Man Yu are supporting Chen Meng wel. Maybe Hayata or Harimoto may snatch a world or Olympic title, but team event seems safe for China for another generation.
For the men I think France are unfortunately going to fall short on Physical fitness unless the French introduce a fitness regime for the Lebruns
 
  • Like
Reactions: Hoàng Chinh Trump
This user has no status.
This user has no status.
Well-Known Member
Sep 2013
10,072
9,618
24,749
Read 3 reviews
I used to think that the current japanese team might emulate Singapore but Sun Yang She and Wang Man Yu are supporting Chen Meng wel. Maybe Hayata or Harimoto may snatch a world or Olympic title, but team event seems safe for China for another generation.
well, 2024, China women's almost lost, so i'm not sure how safe you think the ice they standing on is.
1720196456814-png.30808

imo, Miwa was still 1 or 2 years too early. So the question is, when Miwa is ready, would the others still be "there".

the next "young" ones from China.... seems to be KM. The rest maybe still not 100%....so it is interesting to see 2028~2032.
SYS is only 23,
CM should be gone after Paris (heading 30+ now)
WMY should step up.... (obviously not in her control) as she is only 25.


1720196456814.png


best of 5s, there is still a chance (teams)
best of 7s, the chance will be slimmer (wttc/og)
OG maybe higher chance than wttc due to the amount of entries.
that is my opinion
 
  • Like
Reactions: pingpongpaddy
This user has no status.
This user has no status.
Well-Known Member
Sep 2013
10,072
9,618
24,749
Read 3 reviews
Haha you have great understanding of CNT...
i don' think the post you tag, is considered "great understanding" of CNT
it should be pretty general knowledge for any one that has followed table tennis for the past 20 years. the trend is just too clear to miss.
of course certain parts of my post can be debatable, but at least that is my view.
 
This user has no status.
This user has no status.
Active Member
Jul 2017
831
435
1,376
I think the world is getting closer but the Chinese still have 2 big advantages:

1) better coaching and resources to study opponents than anyone else

2) they are less tied in leagues and tournaments and thus have more time to train and practice compared to other players who are very involved in their league and don't have so much time to train.

Chinese players have league and tournament matches too but if they struggle they can always take two months off and just do intense training. That means they have more complete games and can adjust better.

The WTT circuit is eating away some of that advantage and I believe it is intentional to reduce Chinese advantage, WTT is supposed to tie Chinese players up so they can't just dissappear for 3 months and show up as a revamped, new player and also expose them to the other players so they can adjust too.

That has reduced the Chinese advantage some compared to 15 years ago when the stars where kinda "hidden away" just focusing on training and then destroying anyone in the majors but the advantage is still there to some degree because the WTT calender has eaten up some of that advantage but there still is more league involvement for the non Chinese players.
 
Top