Joola using different sponges for Red and Black Dynaryz ZGR

[riversquirrel]

Just received two new sheets of Joola Dynaryz ZGR, and much to my surprise, they are using notably different sponges. As you can see below, the red (left) has much smaller pores than the black (right). The more porous black sponge looks the same as my old black sheet. I purchased both from TableTennis11, so it seems very unlikely one would be a counterfeit.

By touch, they seem similar, although the black rubber does curl a bit more, in a way that implies heavier factory boosting. I will play with them tomorrow and update this thread, but does anyone else have experience with one or both colors of this rubber?

 

[TensorBackhand]

That seems strange. Maybe contact joola.

But cool sponge color though

 

[riversquirrel]

Maybe contact joola.

Not a bad idea.

I also forgot to mention but the black was 1 gram heavier than the red, 78.3 vs 77.2 uncut, although I'm pretty sure that would be within normal sheet-to-sheet variance of any rubber.

 

[TensorBackhand]

Not a bad idea.

I also forgot to mention but the black was 1 gram heavier than the red, 78.3 vs 77.2 uncut, although I'm pretty sure that would be within normal sheet-to-sheet variance of any rubber.

maybe don't open and play with it yet. Joola might offer to replace it for you

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

@Matt Hetherington

 

[Airoc]

although I'm pretty sure that would be within normal sheet-to-sheet variance of any rubber.

Absolutely.

 

[TheProfessor]

ff this thread

 

[riversquirrel]

Alright, contacted both Joola and TT11 support. Joola confirmed that the Red rubber's sponge is incorrect, but told me TT11 must replace it. TT11 has refunded the rubber, rather than ship a potentially identical replacement or have me return a rubber overseas, and I have encouraged them to check the rest of their batch.

I have now also played with it, and to be honest it seems pretty darn close. The smaller pored sponge of the red rubber seems mildly more hard/dead (less catapult) when compared to the black rubber and its larger pored sponge. I'll probably continue to use it, even though it's not quite right. Hopefully this thread can be of use if anyone else receives a ZGR like this.

 

[TensorBackhand]

Alright, contacted both Joola and TT11 support. Joola confirmed that the Red rubber's sponge is incorrect, but told me TT11 must replace it. TT11 has refunded the rubber, rather than ship a potentially identical replacement or have me return a rubber overseas, and I have encouraged them to check the rest of their batch.

I have now also played with it, and to be honest it seems pretty darn close. The smaller pored sponge of the red rubber seems mildly more hard/dead (less catapult) when compared to the black rubber and its larger pored sponge. I'll probably continue to use it, even though it's not quite right. Hopefully this thread can be of use if anyone else receives a ZGR like this.

Nice for you. You get 2 different versions of ZGR, lol.

Do you have any other hybrid rubbers to compare the ZGR to?

 

[riversquirrel]

Nice for you. You get 2 different versions of ZGR, lol.

Do you have any other hybrid rubbers to compare the ZGR to?

Ya lol, I might be the only player that can officially blame their equipment when they hit a bad backhand. Confirmed from the manufacturer themselves, it's clearly an equipment issue, not skill.


And ya, I've tried a handful. I have been using Rakza Z on BH (and sometimes FH) for a couple years now. I still think it's a good rubber, when I was less consistent it helped give me the confidence to go for tougher shots in games. The high arc and good grip make it feel almost trivial to lift heavy backspin or counter a loop. I have also recently used Victas V20, which I find to be a more aggressive version of RZ, much better on the forehand. ZGR is a different animal from those two, but somehow it still feels like a natural progression as my form has improved. Where RZ and V20 feel safe with pretty much any shot, ZGR rewards well hit shots like no other rubber. It has a very thin topsheet with hurricane-esque pimple structure, giving it a low dwell time and high speed on flat hits, but if you hit a proper brush loop or serve, the grip is ridiculous. It's a step behind a good boosted H3 blue sponge for pure forehand looping, but it's certainly more versatile for everything else. I have not tried anything else that offers both this level of speed and spin, while retaining touch in the short game. I have played briefly with Dignics 09c, but don't like it. It seems to deaden the ball on soft shots, hurting touch, but it doesn't offer enough speed or spin to compensate for it IMO.

A friend of mine also just got a sheet of the step-down Joola Rhyzen ZGR, and I have to say it feels nearly identical, the top sheet is definitely the same, and the sponge is just a little harder and less reactive/catapult-y. It will be interesting to see how they age, my old sheet of ZGR definitely softened up a bit after breaking in.

 

[TensorBackhand]

Ya lol, I might be the only player that can officially blame their equipment when they hit a bad backhand. Confirmed from the manufacturer themselves, it's clearly an equipment issue, not skill.


And ya, I've tried a handful. I have been using Rakza Z on BH (and sometimes FH) for a couple years now. I still think it's a good rubber, when I was less consistent it helped give me the confidence to go for tougher shots in games. The high arc and good grip make it feel almost trivial to lift heavy backspin or counter a loop. I have also recently used Victas V20, which I find to be a more aggressive version of RZ, much better on the forehand. ZGR is a different animal from those two, but somehow it still feels like a natural progression as my form has improved. Where RZ and V20 feel safe with pretty much any shot, ZGR rewards well hit shots like no other rubber. It has a very thin topsheet with hurricane-esque pimple structure, giving it a low dwell time and high speed on flat hits, but if you hit a proper brush loop or serve, the grip is ridiculous. It's a step behind a good boosted H3 blue sponge for pure forehand looping, but it's certainly more versatile for everything else. I have not tried anything else that offers both this level of speed and spin, while retaining touch in the short game. I have played briefly with Dignics 09c, but don't like it. It seems to deaden the ball on soft shots, hurting touch, but it doesn't offer enough speed or spin to compensate for it IMO.

A friend of mine also just got a sheet of the step-down Joola Rhyzen ZGR, and I have to say it feels nearly identical, the top sheet is definitely the same, and the sponge is just a little harder and less reactive/catapult-y. It will be interesting to see how they age, my old sheet of ZGR definitely softened up a bit after breaking in.

Is the Dynarz ZGR faster than both Rakza Z and D09c?

Isnt the Rhyzen ZGR non-tacky? So its not really a hybrid is it?

 

[riversquirrel]

The Ryzen and Dynaryz ZGR share a top sheet. Joola says as much in their descriptions, and they play identically in that regard, only difference is the sponge. Both are significantly faster than Rakza Z, the sponges are much harder/bouncier, and the top sheet thinner and more reactive. I haven't played with 09c in a while, but from what I remember it's definitely faster than RZ but not as fast as ZGR.

I would say the speed/catapult from the ZGR sponges feels similar to that of Rasanter R50 or R53. That makes sense, since they have that same type of factory tuned large pore ESN sponge, while 09c/RZ/V20 use the more solid looking Japanese style sponges.


As far as tackiness goes, it's less tacky than RZ or Victas V20, but comparable to 09c. It won't pick up and hold a ball for long, although that may partly be due to the thinness compared to RZ but it's still reasonably tacky and definitely plays like it in the short game.

 

[TensorBackhand]

The Ryzen and Dynaryz ZGR share a top sheet. Joola says as much in their descriptions, and they play identically in that regard, only difference is the sponge. Both are significantly faster than Rakza Z, the sponges are much harder/bouncier, and the top sheet thinner and more reactive. I haven't played with 09c in a while, but from what I remember it's definitely faster than RZ but not as fast as ZGR.

I would say the speed/catapult from the ZGR sponges feels similar to that of Rasanter R50 or R53. That makes sense, since they have that same type of factory tuned large pore ESN sponge, while 09c/RZ/V20 use the more solid looking Japanese style sponges.


As far as tackiness goes, it's less tacky than RZ or Victas V20, but comparable to 09c. It won't pick up and hold a ball for long, although that may partly be due to the thinness compared to RZ but it's still reasonably tacky and definitely plays like it in the short game.

It sounds like a really good rubber if its faster than both d09c and Rakza Z.

Why does it seem to fly under the radar compared to the other ESN hybrids like K3 or Bluegrip or Rakza Z?

 

[riversquirrel]

It sounds like a really good rubber if its faster than both d09c and Rakza Z.

Why does it seem to fly under the radar compared to the other ESN hybrids like K3 or Bluegrip or Rakza Z?

Not entirely sure, to be honest. I myself almost wrote it off after the first time I played with it. Coming from RZ, it just seemed too fast and out of control, but once I came back to it and gave myself a chance to adapt, my results improved significantly. Throw in the fact that everyone and their mother uses the fastest carbon blade they can find, and I can understand why it might not have an amazing first impression with some people.

Joola also definitely has not had a lot of the rubber market-share in a while, unlike Tibhar/Donic/Yasaka, which have very successful euro/jap rubber lines. It seems like people just buy what their coaches or higher rated friends use, or what they can borrow from a friend to try, as there isn't any outlet that consistently publishes quality reviews. In my group, I'm the dumb one that buys stuff nearly blindly and lets others try it out, and I've definitely wasted money on some clunkers.

I do think it's a good rubber, although I will say Rakza Z especially has the advantage of being super durable. It seems to play nearly the same even after months of use, and I can't say the same for at least the Dynaryz ZGR. That's why my friend got the Rhyzen, we thought it may be less heavily tuned and more likely to last longer.

 

[Matt Hetherington]

Hey, thanks for this. It got back to me from here and from JOOLA CS so your response was indirectly from me. I sent the pictures back to the production side and the German team to look into. Glad you were able to get a refund from TT11 and hopefully we can find out more about the inconsistency.

What I would say in relation to the later comment about why more people aren't playing with JOOLA, honestly I can say confidently as a previously sponsored player and now an employee (I know some will assume bias, but bear with me), that in earlier years JOOLA was a fairly prominent brand - in the mid 90s. Whatever went on back then I'm not sure of, but I can say that in recent years things have really improved a lot.

We are taking a lot of feedback from our professional players on rubber development, and have more input on blades as well especially from players like Zhou Qihao, Lily Zhang, Vitor Ishiy etc.

What I can say is that it is difficult to convince people to TRY something when it has a prior reputation or when they have already chosen what they deem to be better.

For us we really want to figure out ways to get more JOOLA into players' hands and try and get them to give it a fair chance, it will take time, but I think once people try it out they will see that the value for money and the performance is actually pretty good!

Anyway that's my 10 cents. Keep an eye out because more new things are coming soon

 

[TensorBackhand]

Hey, thanks for this. It got back to me from here and from JOOLA CS so your response was indirectly from me. I sent the pictures back to the production side and the German team to look into. Glad you were able to get a refund from TT11 and hopefully we can find out more about the inconsistency.

What I would say in relation to the later comment about why more people aren't playing with JOOLA, honestly I can say confidently as a previously sponsored player and now an employee (I know some will assume bias, but bear with me), that in earlier years JOOLA was a fairly prominent brand - in the mid 90s. Whatever went on back then I'm not sure of, but I can say that in recent years things have really improved a lot.

We are taking a lot of feedback from our professional players on rubber development, and have more input on blades as well especially from players like Zhou Qihao, Lily Zhang, Vitor Ishiy etc.

What I can say is that it is difficult to convince people to TRY something when it has a prior reputation or when they have already chosen what they deem to be better.

For us we really want to figure out ways to get more JOOLA into players' hands and try and get them to give it a fair chance, it will take time, but I think once people try it out they will see that the value for money and the performance is actually pretty good!

Anyway that's my 10 cents. Keep an eye out because more new things are coming soon

Very curious what the production side says in response to the sponge inconsistency.

Can you drop any hints at what new things are coming soon?

Would Joola ever release a rubber series based on Japanese production instead of German? I believe Stiga and Nittaku have both German and Japanese lines.

 

[DukeGaGa]

Hey, thanks for this. It got back to me from here and from JOOLA CS so your response was indirectly from me. I sent the pictures back to the production side and the German team to look into. Glad you were able to get a refund from TT11 and hopefully we can find out more about the inconsistency.

What I would say in relation to the later comment about why more people aren't playing with JOOLA, honestly I can say confidently as a previously sponsored player and now an employee (I know some will assume bias, but bear with me), that in earlier years JOOLA was a fairly prominent brand - in the mid 90s. Whatever went on back then I'm not sure of, but I can say that in recent years things have really improved a lot.

We are taking a lot of feedback from our professional players on rubber development, and have more input on blades as well especially from players like Zhou Qihao, Lily Zhang, Vitor Ishiy etc.

What I can say is that it is difficult to convince people to TRY something when it has a prior reputation or when they have already chosen what they deem to be better.

For us we really want to figure out ways to get more JOOLA into players' hands and try and get them to give it a fair chance, it will take time, but I think once people try it out they will see that the value for money and the performance is actually pretty good!

Anyway that's my 10 cents. Keep an eye out because more new things are coming soon

I think Joola is going in the right direction with the new blades and rubbers ever since Vyzaryz Trinity, and recently the Warrior is quite a nice surprise IMO, I personally got two of those.

 

[NextLevel]

I agree 100% on the Trinity, for price point and comps, it is an extremely well priced and well made blade.

 

[SlowPower]

I had a similar story with joola.
Found MY FH rubber in the Joola Golden Tango PS.
Had a red one in the past, very tacky, but some minor holes in the top sheet, no problem but i wrote an Email to Joola because i was curious about the QC.
Another black sheet, very tacky, everything ok, but worn out some day (very durable ).
Then ordered another black sheet at the local store. Lots of dust particles under the protection sheet and no tackiness!
Wrote an E Mail again and got a new sheet.
Again dust under the protection sheet and only slightly tacky.
I play that sheet now, but i am not sure if to stay with the GT PS or look for another rubber once it is worn out.
Another user in a german forum just switched to another rubber as his last 2 sheets havent been tacky at all.
I think there might have been some changes in the production process?

 

[Airoc]

What I can say is that it is difficult to convince people to TRY something when it has a prior reputation or when they have already chosen what they deem to be better.

Absolutely. The new JOOLA blades from Korea (as new XIOM, KOKUTAKU, ANDRO SYNTELIAC) are of outstanding quality, AT LEAST on the level of BTY.
But tell someone this and they´ll go "Yeah, but 180 Euro for a JOOLA, I dunno..."
And if you give it to them to play with it they will still "feel" that their BTY is better ;-)