Looking For Feedback On 3rd Ball Attack

[Novarac23]

Allright folks, need your help / feedback:

That's me trying to practice serve -> 3rd ball attack. FIrst is push to BH, then push to FH, then last 3 or 4 balls were random. What I'm specifically working on here is making sure I am in the "ready" position after the serve and that I am not staring at my own side of the court like I often do but rather at the oponent so that I could move towards where the ball is. What ends up happenig a lot of time is that I am either not in the ready position after the serve or I forget to watch the oponent after I perform the stroke and then I hit the ball in panick (or both).

More broadly what I'm trying to work on is finding my "rhytm". Meaning practice this sequence of events: perform the stroke -> "reset" feet -> watch the oponent and his paddle -> move the body in a good position for the stroke (hardest part for me) -> watch the ball until it hits your paddle then repeat.

In the video I have some pretty good BH loops but I generally struggle with concept mentioned above. Also in my FH loop I tend to go too much up as opposed to forward, which actually does not happen if I practice my FH loop on its own in one spot, but it does happen in real world because I don't place my feet at the right position.

 

[ThePongCommenter]

1) You need a wider court lol

2) Every single one of your backhand open ups went to the middle of the table

3) Don't record with the camera behind yourself

 

[ThePongCommenter]

In the video I have some pretty good BH loops but I generally struggle with concept mentioned above. Also in my FH loop I tend to go too much up as opposed to forward, which actually does not happen if I practice my FH loop on its own in one spot, but it does happen in real world because I don't place my feet at the right position.

It may be the feet position, there were only a few forehand loops you did in this video so need to see more to come to a conclusion, but it looks like the bigger issue is that you are pushing your weight far too much to your right leg and right side. Look at 1:30. This makes it nearly impossible to turn forwards and leaves you only the option of pushing upwards.

 

[Novarac23]

Yeah fair point re bad angle, will do better next time. And re court width, they temporarily relocated to a smaller space so its a bit cramped 😂 agreed that its small.

Also fair point on the bh going middle, should try to adjust my position so that the ball lands on either BH or FH. For FH yeah I think all kinds of wrong things are happening, what you mentioned + my right foot is not planted while I do the stroke which probably leads to this weird feet motion at the end that I do.

Thank you for feedback! 🙌

 

[jk1980]

i think it is hard to judge if the ball contact is not shown.
you seem to properly go down before the stroke. i dont think it is an issue to target the middle/elbow on the open up, if it is deliberate of course.
funnily had a similar session today and placed the camera at the right side corner and its better visible how the contact is.

my issues are obviously very different from yours. Mine are primarily a "weak" wrist where i dont fully "swing back" with it and i would intuitively do more of a clockwise movement and not a straight stroke.

my coach showed an odd exercise to me which i should do 5 minutes every training to get a good wrist in 4 month, but gotta get a training partner to play precise balls first

 

[TensorBackhand]

Allright folks, need your help / feedback:

That's me trying to practice serve -> 3rd ball attack. FIrst is push to BH, then push to FH, then last 3 or 4 balls were random. What I'm specifically working on here is making sure I am in the "ready" position after the serve and that I am not staring at my own side of the court like I often do but rather at the oponent so that I could move towards where the ball is. What ends up happenig a lot of time is that I am either not in the ready position after the serve or I forget to watch the oponent after I perform the stroke and then I hit the ball in panick (or both).

More broadly what I'm trying to work on is finding my "rhytm". Meaning practice this sequence of events: perform the stroke -> "reset" feet -> watch the oponent and his paddle -> move the body in a good position for the stroke (hardest part for me) -> watch the ball until it hits your paddle then repeat.

In the video I have some pretty good BH loops but I generally struggle with concept mentioned above. Also in my FH loop I tend to go too much up as opposed to forward, which actually does not happen if I practice my FH loop on its own in one spot, but it does happen in real world because I don't place my feet at the right position.

Looks ok to me and I think you need more reps, but I think you should build up to this practice.

Step 1: Do 100 balls where you loop bh just from a underspin feed
Step 2: Do 100 balls looping bh from underspin feed but at a quicker feed rate
Step 3: Do the bh looping on 3rd ball

 

[Novarac23]

i think it is hard to judge if the ball contact is not shown.
you seem to properly go down before the stroke. i dont think it is an issue to target the middle/elbow on the open up, if it is deliberate of course.
funnily had a similar session today and placed the camera at the right side corner and its better visible how the contact is.

my issues are obviously very different from yours. Mine are primarily a "weak" wrist where i dont fully "swing back" with it and i would intuitively do more of a clockwise movement and not a straight stroke.

my coach showed an odd exercise to me which i should do 5 minutes every training to get a good wrist in 4 month, but gotta get a training partner to play precise balls first

Wow this camera angle is so much better. I'll try and use it if the space allows. I'm curious how it will turn out.

Looks ok to me and I think you need more reps, but I think you should build up to this practice.

Step 1: Do 100 balls where you loop bh just from a underspin feed
Step 2: Do 100 balls looping bh from underspin feed but at a quicker feed rate
Step 3: Do the bh looping on 3rd ball

Thank you for feedback! Yeah I just purchased a robot (nova s pro and I'm in love with it, it's amazing) because I need to practice more and I'm going to club only twice a week. With the robot I can double the practice sessions I do in a week so I'm excited about that! (of course one can use a robot in a bad way too, that's why I'm still going to practice with humans and checking my technique along the way!

 

[NextLevel]

Conceptually, you are overcomplicating it a bit. While the details are important to improve, conceptually, all you are trying to do is get into position to play a backhand or a forehand depending on where the ball goes and how the ball is returned. Your preparation might not be textbook optimal, but as long as you are reasonably ready by the time the ball gets to the other side, you are fine, the rest is execution. How exactly you do it depends on a few things, but more important than anything else is the quality of execution of the serve and its ability to limit the options of typical opponents at your level.

While practicing against pushes is important, it is just as important to find an opponent who can flick or attack the serves even if very softly so that you are not caught always expecting a push and then looping the ball off the table or popping the ball skyhigh when the ball is not a backspin ball. As long as you do a good serve and practice against good returns and some random returning, you will get decent. Just be careful locking yourself into practicing eternally against one spin all the time in practice as it will create the bad habit of always playing against that spin even when it is wrong in matches. That is where a good coach can help.

 

[blahness]

First thing, the weight transfer during service + the recovery looks excellent!

With the BH loop, I think you are also loading on your left hip very well, but you seem to be a little stuck there, and the power is not really transferred to the ball efficiently. What will really make a big difference is transferring your weight to your right foot during contact. In the beginning you can even straighten your right leg and step on your right foot during contact to feel it more. You can even lift up your left foot off the ground to feel the weight transfer, but that is undesirable due to worse balance, but it is a good way to learn it. At the same time use this to power your hip rotation where the power then goes straight to your arm stroke. Ideally you should do this for every single BH.

For forehand dont go with your right foot forward after the stroke, just transfer weight to left foot and then immediately use the body rotation to bring your arm back close to the body to get ready for the next shot. If your shot is blocked with your right foot forward you simply are not in good position to loop the next ball.

 

[PoppaChubby]

Change your racket please... you don't have enough control to get consistency, what I've seen is you get a 3rd ball done the right way only 5 times over the first 10 attempts, I mean here it lands on the oppponent's side only 50% of the time, the rest being down the net or way too long.

I've done that pratice too ... with a FFTT 1700 guy, means 2100/2200 USATT. I'm a natural BH player so he forced me to play FH only 3rd balls. And those receives came back with über backspin, not the gentle return you get here on your video. This is why I slowed down my equipment: wrong percentage. He wanted me to have a consistent FH loaded with a lot of topspin even if it was a tad slower. Same as you: only 50%. I had a slower racket, I took it and baaam: 80% ! and now I use only this racket. My BH didn't changed: I'm a kind of ripping it all down the middle where it's the most difficult for any player, targetting his elbow. Now I have a really decent down the line FH 3rd ball attack, not that fast but well placed with a ton of top spins. When I can kill, same as the BH: down the middle line, elbow's opponent. The risk with diagonal kills is that it can come back faster than you threw it before, never underestimate the power of middle table tactics.

 

[PoppaChubby]

i think it is hard to judge if the ball contact is not shown.
you seem to properly go down before the stroke. i dont think it is an issue to target the middle/elbow on the open up, if it is deliberate of course.
funnily had a similar session today and placed the camera at the right side corner and its better visible how the contact is.

my issues are obviously very different from yours. Mine are primarily a "weak" wrist where i dont fully "swing back" with it and i would intuitively do more of a clockwise movement and not a straight stroke.

my coach showed an odd exercise to me which i should do 5 minutes every training to get a good wrist in 4 month, but gotta get a training partner to play precise balls first

Perfect example of what I said: slower racket = better percentage and better placement, consistency all the way ! Good job dude

 

[Novarac23]

Thank y’all for the feedback, much appreciated! I always learn a bunch when I post vids and ask for feedback from this forum

Conceptually, you are overcomplicating it a bit. While the details are important to improve, conceptually, all you are trying to do is get into position to play a backhand or a forehand depending on where the ball goes and how the ball is returned. Your preparation might not be textbook optimal, but as long as you are reasonably ready by the time the ball gets to the other side, you are fine, the rest is execution. How exactly you do it depends on a few things, but more important than anything else is the quality of execution of the serve and its ability to limit the options of typical opponents at your level.

While practicing against pushes is important, it is just as important to find an opponent who can flick or attack the serves even if very softly so that you are not caught always expecting a push and then looping the ball off the table or popping the ball skyhigh when the ball is not a backspin ball. As long as you do a good serve and practice against good returns and some random returning, you will get decent. Just be careful locking yourself into practicing eternally against one spin all the time in practice as it will create the bad habit of always playing against that spin even when it is wrong in matches. That is where a good coach can help.

Yeah agreed on all the points. Here I’m focused on heavy underspin serves and a push because at my level when I do a heavy underspin pauh 95% of the time I will get a push back (and likely push to my BH) the only variation really is quality of the push. But yea agreed need to practice other returns / serve combos!

First thing, the weight transfer during service + the recovery looks excellent!

With the BH loop, I think you are also loading on your left hip very well, but you seem to be a little stuck there, and the power is not really transferred to the ball efficiently. What will really make a big difference is transferring your weight to your right foot during contact. In the beginning you can even straighten your right leg and step on your right foot during contact to feel it more. You can even lift up your left foot off the ground to feel the weight transfer, but that is undesirable due to worse balance, but it is a good way to learn it. At the same time use this to power your hip rotation where the power then goes straight to your arm stroke. Ideally you should do this for every single BH.

For forehand dont go with your right foot forward after the stroke, just transfer weight to left foot and then immediately use the body rotation to bring your arm back close to the body to get ready for the next shot. If your shot is blocked with your right foot forward you simply are not in good position to loop the next ball.

Again all great points and agreed. I will work more on my weight transfer for my BH and the FH thing is something I have been trying practice since I posted this vid it became painfully apparent when I watched the vid and you folks mentioned jt! Also thank you for kind words!

Change your racket please... you don't have enough control to get consistency, what I've seen is you get a 3rd ball done the right way only 5 times over the first 10 attempts, I mean here it lands on the oppponent's side only 50% of the time, the rest being down the net or way too long.

I've done that pratice too ... with a FFTT 1700 guy, means 2100/2200 USATT. I'm a natural BH player so he forced me to play FH only 3rd balls. And those receives came back with über backspin, not the gentle return you get here on your video. This is why I slowed down my equipment: wrong percentage. He wanted me to have a consistent FH loaded with a lot of topspin even if it was a tad slower. Same as you: only 50%. I had a slower racket, I took it and baaam: 80% ! and now I use only this racket. My BH didn't changed: I'm a kind of ripping it all down the middle where it's the most difficult for any player, targetting his elbow. Now I have a really decent down the line FH 3rd ball attack, not that fast but well placed with a ton of top spins. When I can kill, same as the BH: down the middle line, elbow's opponent. The risk with diagonal kills is that it can come back faster than you threw it before, never underestimate the power of middle table tactics.

Thank you for feesback! I somewhat recently switched to an all wood blade and this footage is with that blade! It really was a big difference when I went from my alc blade to all wood when it comes to consistency etc. My bad I didn’t upload it on my profile here haha I think in my case I missed the shots on the vid because of bad footwork / court awarness not necessarily blade. But yeah agreed slower blade better for my level!

 

[Gozo Aruna]

Classic 3rd ball attack:
1. serve long, fast & furious
2. Half step back, racquet up.
3. FH Hulk Smash(tm)
4. Result not always guaranteed. Your milage may differ.

 

[Gozo Aruna]

Another classic 3rd ball attack strategy:
1. Serve long underspin.
2 Wait for a long push.
3. Pivot to get into position for a FH Loop / open up and prepare to rally.

 

[Doralikesmath]

The quality of your 3rd balls on FH side are better than the BH side, but you need to recover faster to get ready for the 5th balls. On the BH, your 3rd balls lack power, consistency, and placement to be effective during match play. Nice spin, though. You may want to work more on the fundamentals of your BH loops, and/or practice the footwork to switch to FH loops on your 5th balls after an opening BH. Keep practicing and improving

 

[Novarac23]

The quality of your 3rd balls on FH side are better than the BH side, but you need to recover faster to get ready for the 5th balls. On the BH, your 3rd balls lack power, consistency, and placement to be effective during match play. Nice spin, though. You may want to work more on the fundamentals of your BH loops, and/or practice the footwork to switch to FH loops on your 5th balls after an opening BH. Keep practicing and improving

Thank you for your feedback, greatly appreciated!

 

[Novarac23]

Hello friends, it's me gain asking for feedback!

I know this is not 3rd ball attack related but it's related in a way because here I'm also working on "rhytm". I recently bought a robot and have practice more in the last two and a half weeks then I did in the last 4 months, which is awesome. I am trying to practice the sequence of: perform the stroke -> small reset -> move body -> perform stroke -> repeat (this is what I meant by "rhytm")

In the video I'm doing 1 BH and 1 FH at the beginning then same drill but random. Main goal is again footwork and teaching my body how to move and pay attention to where the ball is coming. I know my FH still leaves a lot to be desired (for example on some of the strokes right foot is moving backwards while left is moving forward) but given the goal in hand I feel like I'm getting better. Basically working on this skill:

Curious to hear what you think!

Oh and I know you can't see the other side of the table but a fairly high % of shots landed on the table which I'm happy about. I also know that the speed is slower then in real life, I will add more speed later just wanted to get the movement right.

 

[NextLevel]

Hello friends, it's me gain asking for feedback!

I know this is not 3rd ball attack related but it's related in a way because here I'm also working on "rhytm". I recently bought a robot and have practice more in the last two and a half weeks then I did in the last 4 months, which is awesome. I am trying to practice the sequence of: perform the stroke -> small reset -> move body -> perform stroke -> repeat (this is what I meant by "rhytm")

In the video I'm doing 1 BH and 1 FH at the beginning then same drill but random. Main goal is again footwork and teaching my body how to move and pay attention to where the ball is coming. I know my FH still leaves a lot to be desired (for example on some of the strokes right foot is moving backwards while left is moving forward) but given the goal in hand I feel like I'm getting better. Basically working on this skill:

Curious to hear what you think!

Oh and I know you can't see the other side of the table but a fairly high % of shots landed on the table which I'm happy about. I also know that the speed is slower then in real life, I will add more speed later just wanted to get the movement right.

Adding speed to the preparation is not as important as making sure that your backswing is being done while you move so that your end up in a position ready to take the shot (backswing complete) when you land. It actually looks good, but I would encourage you to be aggressive about the preparation of the body and the legs on backswing while moving into position. Sometimes, in cross and semi-cross footwork, you have to feel able to swing at the ball while moving so sometimes your backswing is actually done before or while moving so that the swing can be executed in the air if necessary. There are some nuances, but that is the broad concept.

 

[Novarac23]

As always awesome feedback! Thank you @NextLevel !

Oh and I think this is the first time you said something looked good on my video so I am going to take that as a W! 😂 on a serious note, thank you again for the feedback, makes sense and much appreciated!

 

[NextLevel]

As always awesome feedback! Thank you @NextLevel !

Oh and I think this is the first time you said something looked good on my video so I am going to take that as a W! 😂 on a serious note, thank you again for the feedback, makes sense and much appreciated!

Well, if you want criticism, there is always something wrong. The good thing is that you are getting into a position that enables you to play the ball with some backswing from the body. The forehand stroke itself is arguably incorrect, but again, that is not why you posted this lol. In addition to preparing the lower body more aggressively on the forehand, you should wrap the ball (hit from the outside in, even when going down the line) as well.