Moment for hitting the ball

[LHDuy]

Hi guys, I keep receiving different answers about this when receiving serves or loop, touch the ball. Some people says that they should hit the ball as soon as it just bounce off; others says that when the ball is at the highest and then fall off, the ball itself has the least spin so it will be easy to counter, return serves. The later statement, I feel it's not really right because if the ball has spin, it will varies its pathway on the air make it difficult to counter( sometimes people loop side-spin).
So my question is: when is the time that the ball has the least spin? I specially using this information for returning serves and flicking.
And when is the moment for counter loop or block?
You guys can bring some physics perspective, it's even better.

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

Its relative to playing level.
with proper training, the new technique all encourages earlier contact.

if you talking amateur space, it doesn't really matter, as long as you can get the ball on, that is more important.

yester years Euro styles would all do while it drops, while Asians are more on the bounce.

 

[latej]

So my question is: when is the time that the ball has the least spin? I specially using this information for returning serves and flicking.
And when is the moment for counter loop or block?
You guys can bring some physics perspective, it's even better.

In my exp. it is like a "luxury" question to have. I'd frame it differently. It is not about when the ball has the ideal spin to be hit by me, it is more about about me being in an ideal position to hit the ball. You could say, well, it is the same, and you may be right. But what differs is the angle how we look at it.

So for example, someone serves short back-spin to FH, you can't attack, ideally you are there soon, and there's been whole video by FangBo I think how to get under that ball sort of using the feet. My point here is the specificity of this particular ball.

Sometimes someone serves a little longer ball to FH, which makes it attackable. But there is so little space that there is effectively only 1 point where you can hit, otherwise you'd hit the table by the motion. So here the position is forced on you by the ball, you don't have much choice.

Or someone serves long into my pocket, and I am glad to make a space to hit it at all. Here I don't worry that much about the ball getting its optimal spin for me, but rather about being able to make that extra little step by the left foot (right-hander) and going down to make space for the motion, to do something half-sensible.

To sum it, I'd worry more about standing wide and low, moving well, being able to hit with the right motion, and make sure this motion feels well and natural to you. That gives good satisfaction. (And the question vanishes or becomes "side-track" question.)

And regarding serve receive, one point - if you tend to attack what is attackable, it (at least until certain level) creates extra pressure on the server, and may make them do serve errors.

 

[Der_Echte]

...
So my question is: when is the time that the ball has the least spin? I specially using this information for returning serves and flicking.
And when is the moment for counter loop or block?...

Hi LHD,

In every shot in TT, you have to see the opponent's impact and discern what he or she did, and to immediately know where the ball is going when with what going in what 3d vector when... that is a lot of data to process !

This allows you to decide what you want to do to the ball, so you can move to the position where you expect the ball so you can establish the STRIKE ZONE.

When you start getting this done better, it will revolutionize how you see table tennis.

When you learn where in the effective strike zone you can hit the ball to make it do what, it will be another moment of epic discovery.

Your questions are directly related to this and your discernment and judgement.

As for the physics, when you take the ball early right of the bounce, it has maximum vertical energy, so you do not need to hit up as much to get it over the net. You also have more horizontal angles to work with. When blocking or soft wrist off the bounce countering when you get it right off the bounce, it is easy to control with a loose grip.

You take the ball later, the more you have to account for the spin and you have less angles... but you have more time.

ONLY YOU can know this and only you can prevent forest fires.

 

[pingpongpaddy]

Hi guys, I keep receiving different answers about this when receiving serves or loop, touch the ball. Some people says that they should hit the ball as soon as it just bounce off; others says that when the ball is at the highest and then fall off, the ball itself has the least spin so it will be easy to counter, return serves. The later statement, I feel it's not really right because if the ball has spin, it will varies its pathway on the air make it difficult to counter( sometimes people loop side-spin).
So my question is: when is the time that the ball has the least spin? I specially using this information for returning serves and flicking.
And when is the moment for counter loop or block?
You guys can bring some physics perspective, it's even better.

Hi LHD
I think we need to separate 2 questions:-

1. what stage of a ball's flight Is the best for a successful return?
   It's obvious I think if the ball is struck at the earliest possible moment, then the opponent has less time to deal with your shot. However strokes played close to the bounce have less capacity for variation than strokes played later. Both chops and loops from near the floor and lobs from the.back of the court using an infinite varietytopspin/sidespin or chop/sidespin and even super powerful flat shots. The downside is that the opponent has more time to react against strokes from the deep. Conversely shots played very early such as loops or blocks give very little time for opponent to react.
   I contend that it all depends on the relative skills of the competing player. Some players love to have their opponent early attack because they have fast reflexes and are at an advantage. Defensive players on the other hand can allow their opponent time to attack strongly because they are equipped to deal with the physical challenge of a drawn out attack defence contest
2. at what stage of a balls's flight is the spin the least?
   I am afraid I consider this not such a rewarding question to ask. If you consider how much time is taken up by the average table tennis shot (from a fraction of a second to maybe a couple of seconds) and try experimenting with perhaps a simple pendulum serve: You'll soon see that a well spun sidespin serve can be spinning quite vigorously after several seconds and so trying to gain an advantage by taking the ball later doesn't benefit you much in terms of a less spinny shot to deal with.

However while a rotating tt ball flying through the air does not lose rotational velocity very readily, the pure velocity of the ball travelling from point a to point B does depreciate quite significantly because the ball is very light.
Thus I would suggest that benefits or otherwise receiving the ball late or early have more to do with the speed changes and also the scope for variety of shots which vary for shots over the table or outside the table

So maybe the optimum moment for contacting the ball depends on your style:-
are you a whiz at
blocking
or
chopping or lobbing
or
do you have a variety of skills in your toolbox?

 

[Lazer]

Hi LHD
I think we need to separate 2 questions:-

1. what stage of a ball's flight Is the best for a successful return?
   It's obvious I think if the ball is struck at the earliest possible moment, then the opponent has less time to deal with your shot. However strokes played close to the bounce have less capacity for variation than strokes played later. Both chops and loops from near the floor and lobs from the.back of the court using an infinite varietytopspin/sidespin or chop/sidespin and even super powerful flat shots. The downside is that the opponent has more time to react against strokes from the deep. Conversely shots played very early such as loops or blocks give very little time for opponent to react.
   I contend that it all depends on the relative skills of the competing player. Some players love to have their opponent early attack because they have fast reflexes and are at an advantage. Defensive players on the other hand can allow their opponent time to attack strongly because they are equipped to deal with the physical challenge of a drawn out attack defence contest
2. at what stage of a balls's flight is the spin the least?
   I am afraid I consider this not such a rewarding question to ask. If you consider how much time is taken up by the average table tennis shot (from a fraction of a second to maybe a couple of seconds) and try experimenting with perhaps a simple pendulum serve: You'll soon see that a well spun sidespin serve can be spinning quite vigorously after several seconds and so trying to gain an advantage by taking the ball later benefit you much in terms of a less skinny shot to deal with.

However while a rotating tt ball flying through the air does not lose rotational velocity very readily, the pure velocity of the ball travelling from a to point B does depreciate quite significantly because the ball is very light.
Thus I would suggest that benefits or otherwise receiving the ball late or early have more to do the speed changes and also the scope for variety of shots which vary for shots over the table or outside the table

So maybe the optimum moment for contacting the ball depends on your style:-
are you a whiz at
blocking
or
chopping or lobbing
or
do you have a variety of skills in your toolbox?

I have never played at a high altitude over the sea where the air is thinner. That would be interesting. That would be quite different right?

Cheers
L-zr

 

[latej]

I have never played at a high altitude over the sea where the air is thinner. That would be interesting. That would be quite different right?

Ball moves faster, and so must we, we exhaustedly grasp for air, and the worst, no MAGNUS. A nightmare, the hell!

 

[Lazer]

Ball moves faster, and so must we, we exhaustedly grasp for air, and the worst, no MAGNUS. A nightmare, the hell!!!

Yep that would be my guess we all like Magnus, don’t we ☹️

Cheers
L-zr