move from TimoBoll ALC to innerfoce blade

[Arlo]

Hi, I think I need your advice before spending some money. After taking a 30 year break from tabletennis I picked it up a couple of years ago. Still find myself struggling with the new ball every now and then as it reacts differently than the old celluloid one but competition is going well. From my restart I've been trying frames and rubbers that suit me and the new ball best (not yet an EJ I think...) as all my old references are no longer valid (shriver). My current setup is the T05-fx on a TB alc blade. I'm quite happy with it. I've also had the T05 but found it way to jumpy on the blade with lack of feel. In my club as soon as the ball goes a bit higher over the net in the shortgame, you;ve basically lost the point already, so keeping it low is important. Although I'm happy with the blade, I'm considering moving to an innerforce ZLC blade as rubbers are wearing out and need replacement (great opportunity), hoping to end up with about the same speed (zlc being faster, but on the inside compensating), but with more feeling, as also the TB-ALC with t05fx can be bouncy or has me overshooting the table on an active block from time to time. Would you guys agree this is a good move?
I've tried the rakza 7/10 as alternative on the blade, but after the tenergies I think I've become a bit spoiled or used to the active nature. Rakza is good for shortgame but I lack power/spin when away from the table.

happy to provide more details

 

[NetProphet]

Although I'm happy with the blade, I'm considering moving to an innerforce ZLC blade as rubbers are wearing out and need replacement (great opportunity),

I don't understand. You say you're happy with the blade but want a new blade because the rubbers are wearing out...
Surely this is the time to try a new rubber if the blade is good.

05fx is a difficult rubber to play short/careful game with as it very springy...blocks too can be more difficult to control for same reason. Not impossible of course but I find it it easier with a mid hard rubber like Rakza 7 than with soft versions.

If R7 or X on your ALC isn't providing enough when back a bit from the table I can almost guarantee the issue is your technique. I know players who use these exact rubbers and they can loop from feet back, no issue. I myself used these rubbers last year also and can't really see they should be an issue.

I'd agree that the springy nature of 05fx has likely made you lazy and led to bad habits that need to be corrected.
I'd recommend Rozena and $250 on coaching instead of a new blade tbh.
Innerforce anything is unlikely to fix your issues.

 

[Lazer]

I think you are playing with too fast equipment.

You get the best short game with a hard tacky Chinese rubber. The draw back is that you will need to hit hard when attacking. Once you get used to it there is no way back…

Cheers
L-zr

 

[Tyce]

What do they say at the club? Do you have a certified trainer session at some point in the week?
30 years is a lot, sure, but if you were used to Sriver speed glued to a Viscaria, then your current setup isn't all too weird.
Bit more context might help (also where do you play?)

 

[Arlo]

thanks. . yes but then you enter the store for just new rubbers and you see all these goodies and end up with the blade because the opportunity presented itself. Also because I did a short training with an innerforce blade last year but decided to go with the ALC (mostly price). You're right. some of the guys I train with have no issue looping far away from the table (woth rakza soft) and I'll probably adjust to the Rakza when playing longer with it. It just doesn't hit my sweet spot yet (but perhaps will after some time).
But it leaves the question open. Would the innerforce would be easier to play with for the shortgame? compared to the TB ALC I can always swap to rakza or rozena.

 

[Tyce]

Yes, outer fiber plus bouncy rubber is the hardest combination for short game. But you can get used to it, and/or just eliminate short game as much as possible

 

[Arlo]

What do they say at the club? Do you have a certified trainer session at some point in the week?
30 years is a lot, sure, but if you were used to Sriver speed glued to a Viscaria, then your current setup isn't all too weird.
Bit more context might help (also where do you play?)

We play in the Netherlands, regional competition. We don't have a trainer anymore unfortunately but working on that, but we have some very highly skilled players who share their views. We train twice and play weekly competition. In the old days I reached (lowest) national youth league, but then decided to play with senior competition and lost my fun for the game. I'm gradually growing again. I don't really get comments on technique pertaining the above. I think it has become better and adjusted to the ball, but I also lost some speed during the years But the overshooting, especially in competiton when everything is a bit more tense, led me to the move from 05 to 05fx. Now considering something with more feeling touch. so either innerforce....or a rakza/xiom rubber.

I do like the 3rd ball attack game but I regularly end up with a bit longer pushing rallies and win quite some points with that as I can give it quite a lot of backspin leading to net errors (unless, it bounces too much and...it gets spinned, flicked)

 

[Arlo]

I think you are playing with too fast equipment.

You get the best short game with a hard tacky Chinese rubber. The draw back is that you will need to hit hard when attacking. Once you get used to it there is no way back…

Cheers
L-zr

yes. can very well be. that would indeed need a lot of adjustment. We don't have any on the club that uses hurricane/rakzaZ or something, so hard to practise/check. thanks!

 

[Tyce]

I'm in NL too, and a few other regulars here as well feel free to pm me

 

[joshmak10]

Imo, getting H3N for your FH will help tame the speed down of the TB while giving you great spin and good control. It will help you get a great technique since it’s rather unforgiving, but because of that you may hate the first 3 or 4 months of playing with it. But once you do get used to it, you can’t switch away.

If you find T05 FX too bouncy for BH, I would recommend D05 if you are an intermediate player or above, or Vega X if you are a beginner or low intermediate. These two rubbers give you great speed and spin, and are easy to control, especially for blocking. You will definitely find blocking with these two rubbers to be easier than T05 FX.

 

[NetProphet]

thanks. . yes but then you enter the store for just new rubbers and you see all these goodies and end up with the blade because the opportunity presented itself. Also because I did a short training with an innerforce blade last year but decided to go with the ALC (mostly price). You're right. some of the guys I train with have no issue looping far away from the table (woth rakza soft) and I'll probably adjust to the Rakza when playing longer with it. It just doesn't hit my sweet spot yet (but perhaps will after some time).
But it leaves the question open. Would the innerforce would be easier to play with for the shortgame? compared to the TB ALC I can always swap to rakza or rozena.

If the blade is the issue then yes, an innerforce might help you. I didn't go there though cos you said you were happy with the blade and had rubbers that needed replacing.
Whatever you do from here, getting the right rubbers is important anyway.
And although ALC is a relatively fast blade that can be difficult to play with, it's also worth knowing that anything can be mastered with the right coaching/training and a bit of dedication so I wouldn't make an expensive blade change unless I was advised to do so by the person coaching me.
On the other hand if you find for certain that the blade is too fast then you'll have to change it but I think training with it with the right rubbers is the only way to really know that. 🤷‍♂️
Rozena and R7 or similar are very good rubbers to spend a year with learning and retraining your basics.
If you want a beginner blade you can get a Korbel or Primorac for ~$40 so it's an inexpensive change rather than the ~$200 that innerforce tend to cost.

 

[Arlo]

If the blade is the issue then yes, an innerforce might help you. I didn't go there though cos you said you were happy with the blade and had rubbers that needed replacing.
Whatever you do from here, getting the right rubbers is important anyway.
And although ALC is a relatively fast blade that can be difficult to play with, it's also worth knowing that anything can be mastered with the right coaching/training and a bit of dedication so I wouldn't make an expensive blade change unless I was advised to do so by the person coaching me.
On the other hand if you find for certain that the blade is too then you'll have to change it but I think training with it with the right rubbers is the only way to really know that. 🤷‍♂️

too many options thanks, much appreciated and to think about.

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

Changing the blade as a result of needing new rubbers....I get that, then you have the old setup as something you could always switch to and you could change the rubbers on it if you ever are needing to use it.

If you have tried an Inner ZLC and like it, it probably would be fine. Inner ALC is good too. Either would likely be fine blades. Would they be good for you? We can't tell without seeing footage. But, you can get to decide whether the blade is good for you or not. An Inner ZLC would play differently than the TB ALC. But you will be able to adjust. More control on short game and touch shots and similar power on bigger shots.

Tell us how the blade works for you when you get it. that blade with new T05fx (the same rubbers you have been using) will have a lot of nice feeling. Go for it!

 

[schrodingerskoalabear]

Imo, getting H3N for your FH will help tame the speed down of the TB while giving you great spin and good control. It will help you get a great technique since it’s rather unforgiving, but because of that you may hate the first 3 or 4 months of playing with it. But once you do get used to it, you can’t switch away.

If you find T05 FX too bouncy for BH, I would recommend D05 if you are an intermediate player or above, or Vega X if you are a beginner or low intermediate. These two rubbers give you great speed and spin, and are easy to control, especially for blocking. You will definitely find blocking with these two rubbers to be easier than T05 FX.

Do you recommend boosting H3 Neo (I have the commercial 39 OS to try out) when trying the same time?

I am transitioning from Big Dipper 39

 

[Airoc]

zlc being faster, but on the inside compensating

This is a bit theoretical and about the fibre only. Don´t forget to consider the blade´s weight, thickness and its top veneer.

If you are satisfied with the setup in general and overshoot on blocks "from time to time" I am not so sure that a different blade is necessary and even less sure it would change the problem.

 

[Airoc]

I'd recommend Rozena and $250 on coaching instead of a new blade tbh.
Innerforce anything is unlikely to fix your issues.

Other words for what I mean ;-)

 

[Airoc]

If you want a beginner blade you can get a Korbel or Primorac for ~$40 so it's an inexpensive change rather than the ~$200 that innerforce tend to cost.

Or take a look at the new Outerforce range, if it has to be Butterfly. They´re targeted at people who find regular outer fibre blades too fast, and they´re also competitively priced.

 

[joshmak10]

Do you recommend boosting H3 Neo (I have the commercial 39 OS to try out) when trying the same time?

I am transitioning from Big Dipper 39

Yes I would. Just one layer tho

 

[Amayzde]

You have several options.

Timo Boll ZLF
I personally found the Boll Spirit (basically a Boll ALC) a tad too hard and fast. For me the Boll ZLF was a great alternative. Its the same composition but the ZL fiber instead of the ALC makes it a tad softer and slower. For me this was the ultimate solution. Also, the balance is slightly more towards the handle which instantly improved my backhand. A drawback is that you have to lift slightly more then average when you step off the table.

Innerforce ZLC
I actually own this blade as well. Compared to the Boll ZLF this has similair speed, but slightly softer feel, higher throw, and less bouncy. So the IF ZLC better then the Boll ZLF if you want an extra edge in over the table play. As well for the short game as attacking half long balls. Its also better when playing away from the table.

Outerforce ALC
This is a new blade I havent played with, but it is supposed to be slower then the outer ALC blades (Boll ALC/Viscaria). Its also relatively 'cheap' compared to other Butterfly carbon blades: €120.

Outerforce CAF
I also havent played with this blade. But what I have heard from the few people that have tried it is that it reminded them of the ZLF. And its half the price of the Bol ZLF: €90


So If I didnt find my alternative yet, I would have tried 1 of the Outerforce blades. Like I said, they are relatively cheap compare to other fiber blades from Butterfly. And you can buy both of these for the same price as the IF ZLC.

If you want the same kind of feel as the Boll ALC but everything slightly less in terms of speed, bouncyness and reactivity then the Outerforce ALC is probably best for you.

If you want even less speed, bounce, etc. then the Outerforce CAF might be better. The Boll ZLF is also great, but it will probably become obsolete in the near future and is also very expensive given the Outerforce CAF might be not so different for half the price.

The IF ZLC could still be a great option, but its more of a gamble because the composition is completely different compared to the other options listed. So depending on your feeling with that composition, it might be a hit or miss. So if possible, try this blade before you buy it.

 

[TackyForehand]

You should probably hit the gym. More and stronger muscles enhances stability and speed for all shots. You are already fairly happy with your setup, there's no need to search again. The grass is not greener on the other side.