Need Help with a New Fast Butterfly Blade

[Muhammad Saim]

Hello, I need some help regarding a new blade I'm looking for a new blade. Right now, I'm using the normal Viscaria. The current blades under consideration are:
1. Jun Mizutani ZLC
2. Jun Mizutani Super ZLC
3. Viscaria Super ALC
4. Primorac Carbon

Currently, interested in the Jun Mizutani Super ZLC, however, the only concerns I have with the blade is the weight, as I like my blades to be at most 90 grams.

So, I'm looking for a comparison between Viscaria Super ALC and Jun Mizutani series blades to know how they differ in speed, dwell time, spin potential etc.

Also what advantages the first three blades have over the primorac carbon because of there are no significant benefits to those and they're just "fast", might as well get the primorac for half the price.

P.S weight is of significant concern to me as I prefer my blades to be 86-90g range.

Please experts help me make an educated decision.


Thank you.

 

[Zezima]

Blade is just about feeling. Even buying the same blade twice won´t give you that same feeling. So all you can do is get one and try it out. Best you can do is not buying a blade based off of some internet opinions but actually getting to test it yourself through teammates or testcases?,
"Also what advantages the first three blades have over the primorac carbon be.."
Why are those blades under consideration? - would be my question to you.

 

[Muhammad Saim]

Blade is just about feeling. Even buying the same blade twice won´t give you that same feeling. So all you can do is get one and try it out. Best you can do is not buying a blade based off of some internet opinions but actually getting to test it yourself through teammates or testcases?,
"Also what advantages the first three blades have over the primorac carbon be.."
Why are those blades under consideration? - would be my question to you.

Can't really test any of the others except primorac carbon as no one in my country has any of the first three blades. I can only import one of the first three blades or buy a primorac carbon locally.

I don't really feel I get enough dwell time with primorac carbon.

From reviews, I have seen that the viscaria super ALC has similar dwell time to the original viscaria, although a little bit less and Jun Mizutani blades have dwell time due to the out limba layer.

 

[Zezima]

sorry to say but buying any of those blades will be just not beneficial for you. Stick to a more known blade that is not carbon if you like more dwell time.

 

[Wrighty67]

I found Mizutani ZLC to be significantly faster and harder to control than Viscaria - it felt good but I didn’t play well with it.

 

[NextLevel]

If you are primarily a spin based player, the best option is the Viscaria SALC - it is closest to a Viscaria, but slightly harder to control, but it can be mastered with a lot of practice.

The Primorac Carbon is an extremely powerful blade, but one will struggle with the short touch on a lot of balls, it is for all out offense.

The Mizutani blades are great blades, I think the SZLC is too fast for most players who like to use their own power, but it is definitely playable, I know 2200+ players who use it to make their life easy, and it has more arc than T5000 blades like the Primorac, though the Primorac Carbon has the advantage of a really soft outer ply. That said, the weight is real, the SZLC is almost always well over 90g, sometimes even at 95g. Mine is at 91g I believe.

Just about everyone I know in person other than me who tried the SZLC dropped down to the ZLC after - it is a good blade but it doesn't hold the ball on hard hits like most Butterfly blades do, so it is fast and linear, but for players who like to loop hard and are used to other Butterfly looping blades, it needs some retraining to master its special properties which are broadly unlike the more popular ALC and even Koto ZLC blades. Those who master it love it and get lots of powerful shots from it.

So my recommendation is the SALC based on what you are coming from.

 

[Muhammad Saim]

Thank you NextLevel always appreciate your feedback and your knowledgeable responses. So from what I understand if I were to rank the speed of these blades it would be like:

Speed: Primorac>JM SZLC>JM ZLC>SALC ?

And dwell time the inverse of that?

So if we just leave the super ZLC for now.

How would you differentiate and compare the JM ZLC (not super) and the Vis SALC.

Thank you NextLevel

 

[NextLevel]

Thank you NextLevel always appreciate your feedback and your knowledgeable responses. So from what I understand if I were to rank the speed of these blades it would be like:

Speed: Primorac>JM SZLC>JM ZLC>SALC ?

And dwell time the inverse of that?

So if we just leave the super ZLC for now.

How would you differentiate and compare the JM ZLC (not super) and the Vis SALC.

Thank you NextLevel

The SALC is likely faster than the Mizutani even though it has more "feeling" and "ball holding".

Basically the SALC is for someone who wants a faster Viscaria. ZLC has more of a trampoline feeling effect while ALC has more of a dampening effect in my practice. When I play with ALC, I always feel like I am biting the ball and I find that most spin based players will feel more comfortable with it than ZLC but with ZLC it feels like the ball is being kicked out so to speak though some designs can reduce that. That said, while being very powerful, the Mizutani is very linear and all round, it just isn't going to feel good in the hands of someone who is used to ball holding ALC blades without some adjustment, though someone who hasn't investigated ball hold ALC blades vs ZLC blades and really would like the feel of something much more linear or with some kick could try it and be pleasantly surprised. But it is a different animal for sure, Mizutani liked to play all the strokes and score with power topspins from distance, he wasn't a spin focused player like say Boll. If you want something that feels closer to an ALC blade.with ZLC, you are better off with innerforce design usually even though that is also different.

 

[Gozo Aruna]

Hello, I need some help regarding a new blade I'm looking for a new blade. Right now, I'm using the normal Viscaria. The current blades under consideration are:
1. Jun Mizutani ZLC
2. Jun Mizutani Super ZLC
3. Viscaria Super ALC
4. Primorac Carbon

Currently, interested in the Jun Mizutani Super ZLC, however, the only concerns I have with the blade is the weight, as I like my blades to be at most 90 grams.

So, I'm looking for a comparison between Viscaria Super ALC and Jun Mizutani series blades to know how they differ in speed, dwell time, spin potential etc.

Also what advantages the first three blades have over the primorac carbon because of there are no significant benefits to those and they're just "fast", might as well get the primorac for half the price.

P.S weight is of significant concern to me as I prefer my blades to be 86-90g range.

Please experts help me make an educated decision.


Thank you.

Last Sat I had the good fortune of testing two set-up that belongs to fellow club-mates.

1. Mizutani ALC + Donic Bluefire M2 on FH / Donic Bluestorm M3 on BH.
Super super smooth, easy to play. Ball magically land on the other side with beautiful rainbow arc without any effort.

2. So called Clipper clone ( made by some unknown Chinese company ) with Dignics 09C.
Yuck! Horrendous, horrid. Ball cannot go forward, need effort for each and every stroke. Very tiring. Dignic 09C is just made for non-human.

NB: Since Mizutani is a variant of Viscaria, I suspect The Messiah ( @scrubplayer ) assertion about Golden / Super Viscaria has a certain merit.

 

[Muhammad Saim]

The SALC is likely faster than the Mizutani even though it has more "feeling" and "ball holding".

Basically the SALC is for someone who wants a faster Viscaria. ZLC has more of a trampoline feeling effect while ALC has more of a dampening effect in my practice. When I play with ALC, I always feel like I am biting the ball and I find that most spin based players will feel more comfortable with it than ZLC but with ZLC it feels like the ball is being kicked out so to speak though some designs can reduce that. That said, while being very powerful, the Mizutani is very linear and all round, it just isn't going to feel good in the hands of someone who is used to ball holding ALC blades without some adjustment, though someone who hasn't investigated ball hold ALC blades vs ZLC blades and really would like the feel of something much more linear or with some kick could try it and be pleasantly surprised. But it is a different animal for sure, Mizutani liked to play all the strokes and score with power topspins from distance, he wasn't a spin focused player like say Boll. If you want something that feels closer to an ALC blade.with ZLC, you are better off with innerforce design usually even though that is also different.

Thank you so much for the insight NextLevel. I would like to trouble you for one last thing. I'm sorry.

Can you do the same comparison you did with the JM ZLC and the SALC, now with the Primorac and JM SZLC?

Thank you

 

[amitmnagarwal]

Last Sat I had the good fortune of testing two set-up that belongs to fellow club-mates.

1. Mizutani ALC + Donic Bluefire M2 on FH / Donic Bluestorm M3 on BH.
Super super smooth, easy to play. Ball magically land on the other side with beautiful rainbow arc without any effort.

2. So called Clipper clone ( made by some unknown Chinese company ) with Dignics 09C.
Yuck! Horrendous, horrid. Ball cannot go forward, need effort for each and every stroke. Very tiring. Dignic 09C is just made for non-human.

NB: Since Mizutani is a variant of Viscaria, I suspect The Messiah ( @scrubplayer ) assertion about Golden / Super Viscaria has a certain merit.

so u liked Mizutani ZLC ? will it go with T05 ?

How is feel compared to FZD ALC and is it easy to control or too fast?

 

[Gozo Aruna]

so u liked Mizutani ZLC ? will it go with T05 ?

How is feel compared to FZD ALC and is it easy to control or too fast?

T05 should be fine.

In my club I have yet to see anyone use FZD so I have never play with it before. Nonetheless, I suspect FZD would play similar to Viscaria type blade, Mizutani included.

 

[HyperBlow]

Did not play with Mizutani blades but the Viscaria SALC feels good with my kind of playstyle - close to the table, loops and flat hits, active blocking. Blocking with this blade is really amazing imo. Fast for an intermediate player, so I now pair it with Vega Korea FH and Acuda S2 backhand rubbers but I first glued FastArc G-1 Max and 2.0 mm - too fast for me but working great. One player at my club has SALC with T05 on both sides and he likes it very much.