Need help with 'beginner' setup

[iDEaXANA]

Hi Everyone!

I'll get straight to the point. I used to play for my school club when I was 15 whilst also competing but only played for a good part of a year. I've now started playing again at 26 and have been for the past 3 months. I intend to stick to it and perhaps play competitively again if life allows.

Over the past week (3+ Hours a day) I've been doing ground up research and apart from the 70% extra chance I might now become an EJ I found a few rubbers and specifically two blades that I am considering.

First off I'm glad I did do my research as I was certain I wanted to get the Troels Stiga Cybershape for the sake of it but when I re-developed my passion for TT but realised how stupid an idea that was. No chance to develop if I just get that. Also these ads on both sides of my screen don't help ROFLMAO

I also have a good idea of an intermediate step after this but will refrain from including it so we're more focused on helping me get my journey going again.
On that note It is worth mentioning that I see myself similar to Otto from Pongfinity and Mattias Falck in playstyle (obviously no where near as good as them), which got me thinking about short pips and Chinese vs European rubbers and which route I should take. My setup when I was 15 was a XRay blade (no idea which type) with Palio Emperor Dragon rubbers (Please see images)

Having said that, I would appreciate advice on the following:

Potential Equipment:
Blades:
Yasaka Sweden Extra (clearly a top pick but....)
Andro Timber 5 OFF (I saw a post on TTD forums of a beginner, from what it looks like more beginner than I am, using it and he said he noticed a significant improvement in his game. Some reviews of the YSE said that the blade felt more towards the ALL+/OFF- category, so not a solid OFF-, which is the least I'm looking for)

Rubbers:
This was more difficult,
Rakza 7 for the BH (My BH far outperforms my FH; sometimes so much that I play BH on the right side of my body and hit suprisingly good shots. This is probably due to my footwork being bad and so I find it easier to move my hand than move my body)

XIOM Vega Europe for FH due to its softer nature. I was also thinking of getting the R7 Soft.
OR: The Friendship Battle II as apparently it is good for mid game play and is also offensive, but also performs very well close to the table. There's also more dwell time due to its tacky nature which will allow me to feel my shots and really develop my FH. I understand it's a Chinese rubber which contrasts the previous rubbers but I feel like it'll help my footwork/movement development, which I need as I'm tall and very offensive in my play, right?
It's also durable and cheap.

Ultimately what I'm thinking is:
Andro Timber 5 OFF
Friendship Battle II (FH)
Rakza 7 (BH)

I did also want opinions on some other equipment/accessories:

• I'm looking at getting a double bat aluminium hardcase, the ones that look like briefcases that fit 3 balls and two bats. Currently looking at Joola and Tibhar.
• As for the balls I've settled on the Double Fish V40+ 3 (DHS DJ40+ 3 and Nittaku were on my list)
• As for maintenance I'm going to use a mild soap solution with water in a spray bottle with car detailing sponges (soft ones) and Acetate film to cover the bat once finished. Apparently TT films just don't last and gets costly over time. So do sponges.

Anyway I hope you guys have the time to help me out here. Really appreciate it.

P.S. Yes I know I overthought this and I lost hair researching this stuff. I promise I'll take it easy from now on haha.

 

[Crillo]

Yazaka Sweden Extra with Rakza 7 on both sides. You think your forehand sucks, but in month or so you will get the hang of it! R7 is not hard and its a great rubber to learn the fine art of looping with.

 

[riemsesy]

that's it.. answer given, close this topic before ej-ing gets out of control and he can't afford a coach

 

[mocker88]

As you have played before, start up with a 5-ply Allround+/Offensive- blade like Haitian - Y-I, 729 - Dragon S1 or Yinhe - U-2 Spin, and something like 729 - Focus III Snipe, 729 - Aurora Max or perhaps Yinhe - Moon Speed 53 Euro for a little harder and faster feel.

 

[Sims]

Hi
Either of those blades will be good, whichever you choose you'll get used to it pretty quickly.

I'm a fan of Rakza 7, I currently use it on my BH.
I also like the RZ soft for BH.
Vega Europe (a regular euro Tensor rubber) also a great choice imo.
You'd be well set with those.

I haven't tried Battle II but have used Big Dipper and Jupiter Asia III which are similar(ish) I believe. Chinese technique is different and this rubber likely compliments that style.
Depends on the arc of Battle II (I don't know it) and also if it will suit your play style. It might also be something that most ppl play boosted.
Just a few things to consider before buying.

If you do want a sticky FH rubber I'll throw Rakza Z into the mix, it may be easier to use.
It's a hybrid rubber, sticky like Chinese, Battle II etc but Tensor style sponge.
It's not too fast, is great for looping and gives good control in the short game.
Worth considering imo.

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

iDEaXANA: the important thing to know about equipment is, as long as you are looking for equipment in the right class for where you are at, every brand has something that would be suitable and good.

Crillo's recommendation would be excellent. What you are thinking would also be right in line with what will be good for you to work with to develop your skills.

The main thing you are looking for is middle of the road equipment: a middle of the road blade and middle of the road rubbers that let you swing fairly strongly and land the ball on the table.

Choose one and start working with the new setup. Expect that it will take a few weeks to get fully used to new, modern equipment and have fun with that process of getting used to the new setup.

 

[Pe-ter]

As someone who lost so much time sucking at darts than playing TT, I know your struggle OP.
Anyways, few weeks back I did the very same...research, being lost in all the available blades and rubbers etc. Finally in a hurry (to have my racket ASAP) I ordered a Yasaka Sweden Extra with Rakza 7 2.0 on both sides and I can assure you, you will get your FH sorted and will become a better player. That setup is awesome in terms of control (it took me bit more time to adapt to the catapult effect as I only played pre-made rackets before), but now I feel comfortable with the setup.
HOWEVER...in competitive matches sometimes I feel lack of spin (probably my technique just sucks) and speed (which is obvious with this setup). Still, at this stage of your (and mine) learning curve, having a good control is more important. Bottom line, it is a great setup for advancing and getting better.

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

As someone who lost so much time sucking at darts than playing TT, I know your struggle OP.
Anyways, few weeks back I did the very same...research, being lost in all the available blades and rubbers etc. Finally in a hurry (to have my racket ASAP) I ordered a Yasaka Sweden Extra with Rakza 7 2.0 on both sides and I can assure you, you will get your FH sorted and will become a better player. That setup is awesome in terms of control (it took me bit more time to adapt to the catapult effect as I only played pre-made rackets before), but now I feel comfortable with the setup.
HOWEVER...in competitive matches sometimes I feel lack of spin (probably my technique just sucks) and speed (which is obvious with this setup). Still, at this stage of your (and mine) learning curve, having a good control is more important. Bottom line, it is a great setup for advancing and getting better.

Part of why you want the slight lack of speed is so you can take a fuller swing: that, in the long run causes your stroke mechanics to improve more (and more quickly) and as your stroke mechanics and contact (how your rubbber contacts the ball) improves, you start getting A LOT more spin.

What happens with faster setups is you have to cut your stroke down to get the ball on the table. And so you never get the slightly larger stroke, (and more importantly) the faster racket speeds. The faster racket speed with good tangential contact (spin contact) is what gets you to start getting a lot of spin. If you have to make the stroke smaller and slower to keep the ball on the table, you don't learn to spin the ball anywhere near as fully.

Spin Contact: you want to contact the ball so that the rubber contacts only a small part of the edge of the ball (with topspin: on top or side/top part of the ball), as the blade moves past the ball. The ball should sink into the topsheet and sponge to a small degree. But, to spin the ball, you usually are not contacting the back of the ball. For topspin it would be top or side/top. For sidespin it would be side. Backspin it would be bottom or bottom/side. Usually people are doing a combination of sidespin and top or backspin in different shots. But the idea is, the rubber and bladeface contact the ball tangentially, the ball only sinks part way into the sponge and rubber (thinner for slower spinny shots; deeper for faster spinny shots) while you pull the racket past the ball.

With a very fast blade or rubbers, it makes it harder to learn how to do that while taking a full swing. And if you are cutting your stroke off to get the ball to land on the table, and don't feel comfortable adding full force to your stroke, you end up doing funny things in your stroke that give you bad habits and inefficient stroke mechanics (a lot of wasted effort and not transferring your power into the ball well). If the bad habits start early, they are harder to change.

That is why, for newer players, All+, and Off- blades can be good for developing your technique. These days a 5 ply Off rated blade is just as useful though because of the 40+ Poly ball.

 

[ViperTableTennis]

Hi Everyone!

I'll get straight to the point. I used to play for my school club when I was 15 whilst also competing but only played for a good part of a year. I've now started playing again at 26 and have been for the past 3 months. I intend to stick to it and perhaps play competitively again if life allows.

Over the past week (3+ Hours a day) I've been doing ground up research and apart from the 70% extra chance I might now become an EJ I found a few rubbers and specifically two blades that I am considering.

First off I'm glad I did do my research as I was certain I wanted to get the Troels Stiga Cybershape for the sake of it but when I re-developed my passion for TT but realised how stupid an idea that was. No chance to develop if I just get that. Also these ads on both sides of my screen don't help ROFLMAO

I also have a good idea of an intermediate step after this but will refrain from including it so we're more focused on helping me get my journey going again.
On that note It is worth mentioning that I see myself similar to Otto from Pongfinity and Mattias Falck in playstyle (obviously no where near as good as them), which got me thinking about short pips and Chinese vs European rubbers and which route I should take. My setup when I was 15 was a XRay blade (no idea which type) with Palio Emperor Dragon rubbers (Please see images)

Having said that, I would appreciate advice on the following:

Potential Equipment:
Blades:
Yasaka Sweden Extra (clearly a top pick but....)
Andro Timber 5 OFF (I saw a post on TTD forums of a beginner, from what it looks like more beginner than I am, using it and he said he noticed a significant improvement in his game. Some reviews of the YSE said that the blade felt more towards the ALL+/OFF- category, so not a solid OFF-, which is the least I'm looking for)

Rubbers:
This was more difficult,
Rakza 7 for the BH (My BH far outperforms my FH; sometimes so much that I play BH on the right side of my body and hit suprisingly good shots. This is probably due to my footwork being bad and so I find it easier to move my hand than move my body)

XIOM Vega Europe for FH due to its softer nature. I was also thinking of getting the R7 Soft.
OR: The Friendship Battle II as apparently it is good for mid game play and is also offensive, but also performs very well close to the table. There's also more dwell time due to its tacky nature which will allow me to feel my shots and really develop my FH. I understand it's a Chinese rubber which contrasts the previous rubbers but I feel like it'll help my footwork/movement development, which I need as I'm tall and very offensive in my play, right?
It's also durable and cheap.

Ultimately what I'm thinking is:
Andro Timber 5 OFF
Friendship Battle II (FH)
Rakza 7 (BH)

I did also want opinions on some other equipment/accessories:

• I'm looking at getting a double bat aluminium hardcase, the ones that look like briefcases that fit 3 balls and two bats. Currently looking at Joola and Tibhar.
• As for the balls I've settled on the Double Fish V40+ 3 (DHS DJ40+ 3 and Nittaku were on my list)
• As for maintenance I'm going to use a mild soap solution with water in a spray bottle with car detailing sponges (soft ones) and Acetate film to cover the bat once finished. Apparently TT films just don't last and gets costly over time. So do sponges.

Anyway I hope you guys have the time to help me out here. Really appreciate it.

P.S. Yes I know I overthought this and I lost hair researching this stuff. I promise I'll take it easy from now on haha.

I'm a big fan of Spinlord Tiger as a beginners rubber. It's cheap and has very good control and is fast enough to develop an attacking style game but is a couple of notches down in speed from things like Tenergy etc. To be honest, it's fast enough that you might never want to upgrade!

 

[iDEaXANA]

How did you arive at the solution that you are capable of using a double inverted racket ?

I didn't really take the high level categories of rubber types into account. My research process was find out what were recommended to beginner+ and 1.) filter out based on number of negative reviews or comments 2.) filter out comments alluding to above beginner+ capabilities.

I'm more curious as to why you asked this question. Isn't double inverted standard?

 

[iDEaXANA]

I'm heavily leaning towards a Rakza Z for FH now, with the rest being the same. Will sleep on this for the moment.

 

[\_Kairos_/]

I didn't really take the high level categories of rubber types into account. My research process was find out what were recommended to beginner+ and 1.) filter out based on number of negative reviews or comments 2.) filter out comments alluding to above beginner+ capabilities.

I'm more curious as to why you asked this question. Isn't double inverted standard?

"Bloke" is actually a troll named Sjan. Don't waste your time with him...

 

[Sherpa]

Yasaka Sweden with R7 soft on BH and Rakza Z on forehand, so easy to play with and improve your technique as well

 

[riemsesy]

I'm a big fan of Spinlord Tiger as a beginners rubber. It's cheap and has very good control and is fast enough to develop an attacking style game but is a couple of notches down in speed from things like Tenergy etc. To be honest, it's fast enough that you might never want to upgrade!

What thickness would you advise and can you compare it with Xiom Vega Intro or Europe maybe?

 

[Ultravisitor]

What thickness wouldn’t advise and can you compare it with Xiom Vega Intro or Europe maybe?

Spinlord Tiger plays like a classic rubber (mark v). Wouldn't bother with it, unless you want to tame a fast blade.

Xiom vega intro and europe are tensor rubbers and both faster and spinnier. But not unreasonable choices for beginners.

If you think YSE plus rakza 7 is too fast, you could choose nittaku factive instead. I advise against playing with rubbers thinner than 2mm if you want to play offensive and rather choose a slower rubber than a thinner one.

Nittaku Factive is 45 degree hardness and sits between vega europe 42 and intro 47.

 

[Pe-ter]

Part of why you want the slight lack of speed is so you can take a fuller swing: that, in the long run causes your stroke mechanics to improve more (and more quickly) and as your stroke mechanics and contact (how your rubber contacts the ball) improves, you start getting A LOT more spin.

What happens with faster setups is you have to cut your stroke down to get the ball on the table. And so you never get the slightly larger stroke, (and more importantly) the faster racket speeds. The faster racket speed with good tangential contact (spin contact) is what gets you to start getting a lot of spin. If you have to make the stroke smaller and slower to keep the ball on the table, you don't learn to spin the ball anywhere near as fully.

Spin Contact: you want to contact the ball so that the rubber contacts only a small part of the edge of the ball (with topspin: on top or side/top part of the ball), as the blade moves past the ball. The ball should sink into the topsheet and sponge to a small degree. But, to spin the ball, you usually are not contacting the back of the ball. For topspin it would be top or side/top. For sidespin it would be side. Backspin it would be bottom or bottom/side. Usually people are doing a combination of sidespin and top or backspin in different shots. But the idea is, the rubber and bladeface contact the ball tangentially, the ball only sinks part way into the sponge and rubber (thinner for slower spinny shots; deeper for faster spinny shots) while you pull the racket past the ball.

With a very fast blade or rubbers, it makes it harder to learn how to do that while taking a full swing. And if you are cutting your stroke off to get the ball to land on the table, and don't feel comfortable adding full force to your stroke, you end up doing funny things in your stroke that give you bad habits and inefficient stroke mechanics (a lot of wasted effort and not transferring your power into the ball well). If the bad habits start early, they are harder to change.

That is why, for newer players, All+, and Off- blades can be good for developing your technique. These days a 5 ply Off rated blade is just as useful though because of the 40+ Poly ball.

Thank you, you're 100% right, it is better to have a slightly slower racket with the ability to learn a full swing and still get the ball on the table.
Regarding the lack of spin, it was my mistake that I did not put enough information here. I can create a decent amount of spin when looping, but I'm struggling with the spin on the serve. Especially putting back spin/side spin with the Rakza 7. Tried my son's blade (he got a pair of MX-P from his trainer) and I was able to put way more spin on the serve.

 

[Tyce]

I think Rakza 7 is a weird rubber. Some say it's easy, versatile, spin insensitive, but others find it very bouncy and unpredictable.
I've tried it on different blades and once you reach a certain level of hardness and/or stiffness, the rubber changes properties completely.
On flexy limba 5-ply blades it's very spinny and easy to engage. On koto the feeling and feedback gets muted immensely, and on carbon it's as if the rubber itself becomes stiff and hard.
Haven't had this strong of an experience with anything else yet

 

[d3nium]

Yasaka Sweden Extra.

Vega Pro on FH, Vega Europe on BH.

The classic beginner setup!

 

[FunZhendong]

A table tennis 11 seller had recommended a combination on a forum: Neottec Revolution + Vega Europe as something very good at a lower cost for beginners with a lot of control. I'll post the original link here ( In French but you can translate ) :

Les "bonnes surprises" de Tabletennis11 - Tennis de Table.com

Les "bonnes surprises" de Tabletennis11 - Tennis de Table.com

archive.tennis-de-table.com

 

[iDEaXANA]

I think Rakza 7 is a weird rubber. Some say it's easy, versatile, spin insensitive, but others find it very bouncy and unpredictable.
I've tried it on different blades and once you reach a certain level of hardness and/or stiffness, the rubber changes properties completely.
On flexy limba 5-ply blades it's very spinny and easy to engage. On koto the feeling and feedback gets muted immensely, and on carbon it's as if the rubber itself becomes stiff and hard.
Haven't had this strong of an experience with anything else yet

Very interesting. Will be noting that down