Need to re glue handle to blade - what adhesive do you recommend?

[zentt]

Hi Folks....I need to re glue a handle on a Nittaku Blade.
Normal PVA Wood glue is "stronger than the wood itself" as they say and totally permanent which will be ok
but I am wondering if there is an alternative which will be strong but would come apart again in case ever needed.
Any recommendations appreciated, cheers.....

 

[lodro]

you could purchase a sheet of double sided sticky glue that is sold to attach the rubbers to the blade.
They are very thin and , well very sticky. Then you could get the handle off anytime you want

XVT Professional Table Tennis Glue Sheet - AliExpress

 

[Nate4s]

PVA glue would be just fine. If you have access to liquid hide-glue (made from animal parts and connective tissues), then you'd have a glue that would allow for easier disassembly (with heat and a little moisture). In the US, Titebond makes a liquid hide-glue but I'm not sure what major glue brands look like outside the US.

 

[WingTT]

Just curious, why would you want the handle to ever come apart again?

 

[yogi_bear]

you could purchase a sheet of double sided sticky glue that is sold to attach the rubbers to the blade.
They are very thin and , well very sticky. Then you could get the handle off anytime you want

XVT Professional Table Tennis Glue Sheet - AliExpress

Wouldn't this be too fragile?

 

[lodro]

Wouldn't this be too fragile?

Not at all, stick like shit to a blanket.
Actually i have stopped using them to glue the rubbers on to the blades because it became too hard to get the rubbers off.

 

[zentt]

I dont want to take it apart in the future, but the finality of PVA seemed a bit much
for my mind somehow, considering its original manufacture. Silly really.
Didnt realise those glue sheets were that strong!
Wonder if Hide Glue may transmit more feeling in the hand than PVA as its used
for musical instruments?. Saying that tongue in cheek, but its quite plausible on reflection.

I confess with a red face to a shameful accident ocurring to effect this post.
I couldnt bring myself to say about it when I first made it.
I have been practising during lockdown at a sheltered outdoor table with my family
near where we live. In a hurry to get away when rain came down the bat got left on
the table and was only discovered to our horror on returning 3 days later with a lot of rain
in between. I hope the TT Deities and forum members will forgive this dreadful
oversight, which caused the handle to swell and part separate.
I had originally sealed the blade with Nittaku's own blade sealant with a couple of
coats before attaching the rubbers. I think it protected it well.
Interestingly the rubbers which looked terrible - the red fastarc G1 had turned to a milky
pallor and the black mantra looked pretty suspect - now look absolutely fine!.
I am hoping that some semi natural boosting from chemicals in the rainwater may have occurred!

 

[lodro]

I dont want to take it apart in the future, but the finality of PVA seemed a bit much
for my mind somehow, considering its original manufacture. Silly really.
Didnt realise those glue sheets were that strong!
Wonder if Hide Glue may transmit more feeling in the hand than PVA as its used
for musical instruments?. Saying that tongue in cheek, but its quite plausible on reflection.

While I know that the XVT glue sheets will do the job , I would say : ""Just glue the handles back on with PVA"". You can also soak it later ant take it off again , you gots the technique now

As for the feeling difference using different glues, I think this is more important with the laminate itself rather than with the handle.

 

[thomas.pong]

PVA glue would be just fine. If you have access to liquid hide-glue (made from animal parts and connective tissues), then you'd have a glue that would allow for easier disassembly (with heat and a little moisture). In the US, Titebond makes a liquid hide-glue but I'm not sure what major glue brands look like outside the US.

Hi Nate, I think I remember reading that you use PVA for gluing the handles of the blades you make.

Do you know what large manufacturers like Butterfly, Nittaku etc. typically use? I'm guessing hide-glue since people who have removed them (like Der_Echte during his beast mods) have managed to do so using a heat gun.

What is typically used to remove handles glued with PVA?

 

[Nate4s]

Hi Nate, I think I remember reading that you use PVA for gluing the handles of the blades you make.

Do you know what large manufacturers like Butterfly, Nittaku etc. typically use? I'm guessing hide-glue since people who have removed them (like Der_Echte during his beast mods) have managed to do so using a heat gun.

What is typically used to remove handles glued with PVA?

Good questions (part of my response is to you directly, the rest is in general toward other commenters in this thread).

I don't know exactly what manufacturers use to glue them on (e.g., I even asked Oscar from Nexy for details about the epoxy used for composite layers and he wouldn't give up his trade-secret), but I suspect they use whatever makes the most sense for building blades in large quantities and at reasonable costs. I've read that they typically use thermosetting/radio-setting plastic resins for their laminate layers since they can harden them in a few seconds once they hit them with the curing frequency. I highly doubt companies use hide-glue to attach handles, as it's much more of a process to work with and it takes days to cure. OSP, known for using hide-glue in their blades, posted a video a few years back for how they make their handles, and it looked liked they used regular white PVA wood glue to attach them.

As Lodro mentioned, even handles attached with regular wood glues can be removed by soaking them and applying a little heat (they just take a little more work than hide-glue, which is renown for this characteristic).

I use PVA glue to attach my handles because: 1) it's easy to work with and it cooperates nicely (I've used Poly glue on a few occasions but it has a tendency to expand, so handles need to be clamped down with an appropriate amount of force - and fresh glue tends to be slippery, so they don't want to stay where you ask them to.), 2) handles are typically intended to be "permanent" - you don't want them moving in response to moisture, vibration, or falling off over time, and 3) the vibration transfer between blade and handle is important and PVA does great job - I would not trust a double-side tape to excel at this.

Everything I've said above is personal opinion and comes from experience, so of course there might be better options given time, money, access to specific technologies, and opinions.

 

[thomas.pong]

Good questions (part of my response is to you directly, the rest is in general toward other commenters in this thread).

I don't know exactly what manufacturers use to glue them on (e.g., I even asked Oscar from Nexy for details about the epoxy used for composite layers and he wouldn't give up his trade-secret), but I suspect they use whatever makes the most sense for building blades in large quantities and at reasonable costs. I've read that they typically use thermosetting/radio-setting plastic resins for their laminate layers since they can harden them in a few seconds once they hit them with the curing frequency. I highly doubt companies use hide-glue to attach handles, as it's much more of a process to work with and it takes days to cure. OSP, known for using hide-glue in their blades, posted a video a few years back for how they make their handles, and it looked liked they used regular white PVA wood glue to attach them.

As Lodro mentioned, even handles attached with regular wood glues can be removed by soaking them and applying a little heat (they just take a little more work than hide-glue, which is renown for this characteristic).

I use PVA glue to attach my handles because: 1) it's easy to work with and it cooperates nicely (I've used Poly glue on a few occasions but it has a tendency to expand, so handles need to be clamped down with an appropriate amount of force - and fresh glue tends to be slippery, so they don't want to stay where you ask them to.), 2) handles are typically intended to be "permanent" - you don't want them moving in response to moisture, vibration, or falling off over time, and 3) the vibration transfer between blade and handle is important and PVA does great job - I would not trust a double-side tape to excel at this.

Everything I've said above is personal opinion and comes from experience, so of course there might be better options given time, money, access to specific technologies, and opinions.

Thank you for your detailed response and the valuable info Nate!

 

[lodro]

the vibration transfer between blade and handle is important and PVA does great job - I would not trust a double-side tape to excel at this.


Of course I agree with you on this and I only suggested the use of this material because there was the question of something that could be removed easily again in the future.
Now, I got some of those sheets left, they really are too sticky for the rubbers. They are very thin and have no center- film, so glue is all there is. I just scored some old blades and as an occupational therapy I shall rip some of the handles off and will try the glue sheet trick.

P.S I just remembered that the first blade i bought 3 years ago, when i re-started playing TT, was a JOOLA Rossi Attack. Now that blade has a 1mm thick foam layer glued between the paddle and the handle -halves. Looks like not all manufacturers desire a very solid connection between handle and blade.

 

[Nate4s]

the vibration transfer between blade and handle is important and PVA does great job - I would not trust a double-side tape to excel at this.


Of course I agree with you on this and I only suggested the use of this material because there was the question of something that could be removed easily again in the future.
Now, I got some of those sheets left, they really are too sticky for the rubbers. They are very thin and have no center- film, so glue is all there is. I just scored some old blades and as an occupational therapy I shall rip some of the handles off and will try the glue sheet trick.

P.S I just remembered that the first blade i bought 3 years ago, when i re-started playing TT, was a JOOLA Rossi Attack. Now that blade has a 1mm thick foam layer glued between the paddle and the handle -halves. Looks like not all manufacturers desire a very solid connection between handle and blade.

We're on the same page - my post was not intended as an attack on your methods, as I feel like you're in a lot of these threads with all sorts of great novel ideas for how to fix people's broken equipment. I DO take issue with the Joola Rossi Attack...intentionally placing foam between the blade and the handle?! I'm not okay with that.

 

[zentt]

I now feel reassured, particularly by Nate's post re pva not adversely affecting vibration/feedback to the handle so I will be glueing it with pva. I appreciate the helpful replies on this subject.
Cheers.....

 

[Der_Echte]

PVA glue would be just fine. If you have access to liquid hide-glue (made from animal parts and connective tissues), then you'd have a glue that would allow for easier disassembly (with heat and a little moisture). In the US, Titebond makes a liquid hide-glue but I'm not sure what major glue brands look like outside the US.

Yeah, Hide Glue is what I like, but I am just a trouble maker anywayz. I have a bottle of Titebond at the ready.

 

[lodro]

Of course we moved on.
We will glue with pva glue but as i mentioned it before, the XVT glue-sheets do stick like shit to a blanket.
The actual layer of glue is 0.05mm thick and if one really wants to take the handles of later it would be ideal.

As for the Joola Rosckopf attack with special upholstery IN PINK between handle and blade, one can only wonder 😁

The JOOLA Rosskopf Attack Table Tennis Racket is the ideal weapon for the intermediate-level table tennis player! Named after German table tennis legend, Joerg Rosskopf, this high-quality, ITTF-approved racket is ideally suited for a controlled attacking game. 5-ply blade with Power Grip System technology that absorbs vibrations for accurate ball feeling